The merging of TW and HOI...

[a tw player]

HOI is great as a strategic wargame. TW is great as a tactical wargame.

Now, what if we could combine the two so that, essentially, you play HOI but can actually direct forces in a siege of Leningrad with precision rather than a generic "attack Leningrad" option...?

Here's a potential solution I came up with on the official forums over there (note it's in the context of other posts in the thread so some things can be ignored):

Perhaps a system whereby you can micro-manage an individual attack on a province in basic form? Default would be AI control of the attack (basically what we have now), but the option could be given to focus your tank spearhead on the right side of the province, and infantry support, while you send another division to attack on the left to tie up enemy defences. We're talking about quite a while in the future though because, obviously, the technical implications of this would be quite large

Would add a larger sense of control when fighting real important battles such as city sieges, or pivotal battles along your spearhead, hence why the default would be set to the standard current form where a "generic" attack is made. As a result, micromanagement wouldn't be an issue. We would however, need an AI that could deal with it, as you essentially add a 2nd layer to the AI; the strategic level which is currently existing, and the new general "tactical" (really it's still strategic but a bit more zoomed in) AI. Perhaps you could also achieve this idea by splitting individual provinces into further hexes/sections (that appear when you zoom in further onto a province) to perform these manoeuvres, with the movements done at brigade rather than divisional level. Not only would this add greater immersion, but it would also be much more fun seeing your brigades attempt to fight through the city sections of Stalingrad as opposed to divisions attempting to just attack the city.

This idea would enable a "free map", whilst not taking away from what HOI really is or adding any sort of extra micro burden on the player.

Personally I think this idea I just came up with it much more effective than my idea earlier. Would people be in favour of such a system? (for hoi 4 or 5)

Could this work?

Directing fighting at brigade level instead of divisional level seems to make sense in important battles, and seems a logical step for Paradox in terms of making the next revolutionary step in the series.

[Tankfriend]

Take a look at War Leaders: Clash of Nations - they already tried to mix Paradox and TW games there, but more or less failed, as far as I know. At least they did not really get either part of the game finished, really.

Edit: On a sidenote:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[a tw player]

Hehe yeah I just looked at that, didn't turn out too well by the looks of it...

My proposal wouldn't really change how the HOI system works in general (which works well already), but IMO it would add another layer of depth to the game. The step from HOI2-3 basically was the adding of more provinces to achieve this, yet the next step surely can't add even more; it would be micromanaging hell to man all those provinces if you don't use AI. Hence this solution I thought of...

[a tw player]

Below is a more concise version, having re-read the other post it doesn't really make as much sense as I'd have hoped

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

How about a system where you keep the province system, but in each battle the province you attack can be broken down into smaller sections when you zoom in further, and the battles can then be fought at brigade level if you wish, adding a greater element of depth to the important battles. For standard battles you would still just right click onto a province and the AI would handle the battle (basically no different from now), but for important spearhead or city battles you could play the battle out by yourself in realtime with the rest of the game, keeping the same battle system as per now, but just "zoomed in" at brigade counter level rather than divisional. Due to the idea that most battles you could fight just as now (right clicking on the large provinces) with only major fights that you would need/want to get involved in, micromanaging hell wouldn't be created.

Basically I don't think it would be too difficult to do, as really it's virtually the same system as of now, just really a 2nd level of ai would need to be created...1st level to move divisions to the province (same as now), then the 2nd level of ai where to position brigades in each sub-province.

This would require 2x as much processing power for this improvement I think (more or less), yet if we're talking about HOI4 computers should be more than 2x as powerful anyway due to Moores Law

Do people think that this step would be a good thing for HOI4? The step from HOI2-3 was basically more provinces. I doubt more provinces in HOI4 would be feasible really, so sub-provinces like this seems a logical solution to continue the improvement of the game.

This is a bump about the idea as I'd like to see what other people think about this, but also pose the more general question...How do you think the map should be revolutionarily (made up word? ) improved for their next HOI title?

The other improvement could be a totally "free movement" map, but that would bring problems of it's own in terms of maintaining proper frontlines...