LOL at Hungary

**-Myth-** · June 15, 2011, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by recentiy03

It's actually on VH campaign difficulty, BGR 4 with RR.

... what? Did you bribe them or anything? How did you keep that alliance for so long? More importantly, how did your relations improve by themselves, when on VH they're supposed to degenerate down to Abysmal by default?

Which AI are you using?

BTW Crusades cannot be called versus Orthodox factions, this is hardcoded in M2TW but the myth somehow survives because people talk out of their arse a lot

**Aenima** · June 15, 2011, 03:01 PM

I wish that the Byzantines could join in on Crusades. Feels bad seeing the Western Europeans heading through my lands but not being able to join in

**Gogolometro** · June 15, 2011, 04:07 PM

No need. Byzantines called the crusaders there. They used them to weak the turks. And by the way, In early you are so strong, never you need crusaders to free Levand. You already do that.

**YD23** · June 15, 2011, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by -Myth-

BTW Crusades cannot be called versus Orthodox factions, this is hardcoded in M2TW but the myth somehow survives because people talk out of their arse a lot

Excuse me for not remembering every little game mechanic.
Next time you want to prove someone wrong it would be wiser to not make your post sound like an arse, but make it sound polite and helpful instead. You'll be take more seriously and it will not get you into trouble. Just for future reference.

**Maltacus** · June 15, 2011, 05:47 PM

I for one find the opening post funny. The fact that these bad decisions by the ai happen regularly doesn't make it less fun and neither would the fact that the poster played with a different difficulty or ai than myself, if he or she did.

**recentiy03** · June 15, 2011, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by -Myth-

... what? Did you bribe them or anything? How did you keep that alliance for so long? More importantly, how did your relations improve by themselves, when on VH they're supposed to degenerate down to Abysmal by default?

Which AI are you using?

BTW Crusades cannot be called versus Orthodox factions, this is hardcoded in M2TW but the myth somehow survives because people talk out of their arse a lot

It's on the one that indicates it's the most popular on the forums. I don't know the name, but the AI tends to keep alliances. I don't recall bribing Hungary to initially obtain the alliance (although I did pay off the Crusader States and the Papacy for alliances) and while I haven't really done anything to maintain positive relations with them (other than initially giving them a good deal on Iconium), prior to this point I hadn't done anything to provoke them, either, having avoided war with most Catholic countries. We share common enemies in Venice and the Turks so it has been easy to co-exist. It's also likely I attacked the Turks the same turn I ripped them off, which may have boosted the relations. IMO, if it's possible, cancelling a tribute should be made to cause instant war.

**-Myth-** · June 16, 2011, 06:46 AM

Yes, smashing common enemies improves relations by quite a bit. That's why the HRE loves me as England, because I blitz France. So that's what made this alliance possible (as well as Lusted's AI)

On crusades vs Orthodox: I've seen it dozens of times here. Someone asks, and then some other guy comes and swears he's been crusaded against as the ERE, or that he's seen it happen, that Constantinople has been crusaded against when the ERE holds it etc. These are all false but people talk as if they're certain, and that's a bit annoying. Then someone else reads this false information and feeds it to someone else in another thread. That's how the misinformation spreads.

**Chyeaaaa111** · June 16, 2011, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by recentiy03

If I go to war with the Pope first then all Catholics will attack me and the Timurids just arrived. It's easier to start with Hungary from Constantinople and go west, reclaiming Greece.

Decent strategy but you should always take Rome ASAP. Especially if that is the only city the Papacy owns. Send your best full stack of men and your best general (not your faction leader) and take Rome. Make sure you bring a diplomat with you. I also recommend at least 2 good spies so you can attack on the first turn of sieging the city.

Do NOT kill any Papal armies outside of Rome itself, using the night attack feature if you must when you siege the city. Only kill armies in the city.

Once captured, immediately get peace, a full alliance with trade rights and military access both ways (you can't get trade rights or military access from them if they have no other cities). All of the large Papal armies outside of Rome will now protect you, and as long as you keep a diplomat by their armies, you can do whatever you want across all of Europe with the Pope backing you up.

Hope this helps.

**recentiy03** · June 16, 2011, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Chyeaaaa111

Decent strategy but you should always take Rome ASAP. Especially if that is the only city the Papacy owns. Send your best full stack of men and your best general (not your faction leader) and take Rome. Make sure you bring a diplomat with you. I also recommend at least 2 good spies so you can attack on the first turn of sieging the city.

Do NOT kill any Papal armies outside of Rome itself, using the night attack feature if you must when you siege the city. Only kill armies in the city.

Once captured, immediately get peace, a full alliance with trade rights and military access both ways (you can't get trade rights or military access from them if they have no other cities). All of the large Papal armies outside of Rome will now protect you, and as long as you keep a diplomat by their armies, you can do whatever you want across all of Europe with the Pope backing you up.

Hope this helps.

Good idea, except the Pope owns quite a bit more than Rome (pretty much the entire Tuscan peninsula, plus my faction leader (the only one who can command an attacking army because of abysmal faction zeal) just sacked Cairo and is currently marching south toward Luxor, so he won't be venturing near Rome anytime soon. It seems like war with Rome or Hungary will have to wait. I just paid Portugal 50,000 florins for a ceasefire, but I have a feeling they will soon be antsy. So hopefully my fortresses and citadel can hold the western front. Poor Genoa, whose princesses gave birth to a number of my former faction leaders, had a strong kingdom near Caffa, until Novgorod recently wiped 'em out. Aragon was the top faction about 50 turns back, but the Pope excommunicated them and England/Portugal pretty much took care of business. War with the Timurids now seems inevitable because they just took Jerusalem during a Jihad and I have a strong alliance with the Crusader States, although at least it removed Hungary from the Mid-East. Here is a current map:

**-Myth-** · June 16, 2011, 01:11 PM

Did you start Early or Late period?

**recentiy03** · June 16, 2011, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by -Myth-

Did you start Early or Late period?

Late. And the Timurids just laid siege to my citadel in Gaza. I have 3K soldiers inside and they're attacking with an army of 1200 but somehow they have a 70% chance of winning...

**GPDA01** · June 16, 2011, 01:22 PM

wow, i need to get stainless steel.

**TheCobra** · June 16, 2011, 01:29 PM

It's probably because you are marching out to meet them and they most likely have some cav/you have only Peasants!

**zcylen** · June 16, 2011, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by k/t

You don't even have Greece? You don't deserve to call yourself Byzantine.

**Chyeaaaa111** · June 16, 2011, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by GPDA01

wow, i need to get stainless steel.

Truer words were never spoken.

**Erunion Telcontar** · June 16, 2011, 05:58 PM

K/T is right - Orthodox nations are Crusade proof. The Pope is unwilling to Crusade against an Orthodox faction. He'll happily call a crusade on an Islamic or Pagan faction, or even an excommunicated Catholic, but Orthodox factions are untouchable.
So yeah. Kill the Pope. Who cares?

**k/t** · June 16, 2011, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by TheCobra

It's probably because you are marching out to meet them and they most likely have some cav/you have only Peasants!

The Timurids have troops with a lot of experience and are led by a really good general (at least in the beginning), so the autocalc favours them.

**recentiy03** · June 28, 2011, 11:33 AM

Just bumping this thread to post about the potential of Iconium. After ripping off Hungary, it had been my 2nd most valuable city. However, for reasons I have not yet determined, it just became my richest city, garnering 8,631 per turn, where as Constantinople dropped 1,500, from 9,500+ to 8,000. I believe it is because Adrianople has the plague, but it would seem that Iconium is a top-5 city, in terms of potential for wealth. I don't know if anyone has actually compiled a list of the most valuable cities (in maxed conditions, of course), although I would have never guessed Iconium can get so high.