Tokugawa bug

[hevyd00d]

Dunno if it's been mentioned, but I've been playing as Tokugawa with Oda/Tokugawa vassal thing and I've gotten deep into my campaign before I realized that I cannot declare war on any other faction even if Oda is at war with them.

Not only that, but I CANNOT declare war on Oda either. I"ve been trying to piss Oda off even to the point of making my entire faction christian, but they wont attack me.

Just figured I'd report this, also I dont have any other mods installed. Just Darthmod.

[rob-a-dogg]

You are a vassal of Oda, you cannot decalre war. It is not a bug, vassals cannot declare war.

Although, my vassals declare war on me all the time iirc so i dont even collect them any more.

[Akusa]

vassals cannot declare war, yet they do on you all the time.

[DaFranker]

vassals cannot declare war, yet they do on you all the time.

U-U-U-U-ULTRAKILL

As a possible solution to the OP's issue: Try using agents to perform hostile actions on Oda, and make sure you don't have any hostage exchanges going on. Also, the "Declare War" option in diplomacy is most likely "hidden behind" another diplomacy option. For instance, you may have to first click the Cancel Trade Agreement option in order for the Declare War option to appear, or something similar.

If all else fails, savegame editing could do the trick, hackish as it might be. If you don't mind it, posting your savegame so other people can test and solve the problem or so Darth can replicate, isolate and fix the bug (if there really is one) might also be helpful.

[rob-a-dogg]

^ good point, about hidden options. Might be hidden there?

[hevyd00d]

From what I understand, vassals can declare war on the clans they are vassaled to and the clans that their masters are at war with. I remember declaring war on Imagawa back when Tokugawa was originally vassaled to them.
I've already cancel trade with them and no option to declare war has come up.

@DaFranker, yes I've been using Ninjas and a geisha all around in the Oda territory. I've been failing a few times with them lowering the relationship between us. I've even paid oda to break alliance/trade with Ikko Ikki just to get them pissed at them. Now Ikko Ikki and Oda are going at it while Date is backing them up.
Oda is STEAMROLLING EVERYONE!!!

Here is the game data.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ANOPYCHB

[Clamchop]

We should be able to declare war on Oda if we are their vassals, but we can not. Fix please.

[Gallus Domesticus]

I will look into this immediately. I am just a bit curious how Tokugawa was able to declare war on Imagawa before? I used the exact settings for Imagawa on Oda. Only exception is I removed the historical grievances.

[Gallus Domesticus]

I don't see the problem.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I haven't downloaded the latest DM yet(damn corrupted files I get pisses me off). But this is definitely not caused by my mod.

EDIT: I will try the save game uploaded now

[Gallus Domesticus]

Ok this is weird. The declare war in your savegame is greyed out.
Is this the case in a brand new campaign? I edited nothing that could possibly affect the game after the beggining of the first turn(everything I changed is in startpos).
Either this is a vanilla bug or something to do with DM. Did you maybe switch DM versions midgame?

[hevyd00d]

No I did not switch versions mid game. Interestingly though, when I started a brand new campaign to test if I could declare war on the Oda it would let me. I guess something must of bugged it mid campaign.

[Atos]

You cant play Tokugawa with Oda/Tokugawa alliance on.

When you drag the cursor on this option in launcher it sais: disable this option if you want to play as Tokugawa.

I tried to play with O/T alliance on, but the game crushed each time. So I went to launcher to disable it and then I red the description of this option. Hope this help

[Mr Kami]

I find myself wondering why even use this mod if you are going to attack Oda?
The entire point is to duplicate the historical relation between the two.

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

^^ me too

[bombadier]

In the original you could breakout of being a vassal of Imwaga but with this you cant break being a vassal after a certain number of turns,using darthmod 2.5,AUM and the Z_Extended_1640_All_Monthly_Turn_Ikko_Ikki+OdaTokugawa,cant seem to get oda angry enough to declare war either,also historically didnt the Tokugawa break free from Oda?Oh and the game seems to be more interesting starting with the the vassalage with Oda rather as the other.

[Gallus Domesticus]

In the original you could breakout of being a vassal of Imwaga but with this you cant break being a vassal after a certain number of turns,using darthmod 2.5,AUM and the Z_Extended_1640_All_Monthly_Turn_Ikko_Ikki+OdaTokugawa,cant seem to get oda angry enough to declare war either,also historically didnt the Tokugawa break free from Oda?Oh and the game seems to be more interesting starting with the the vassalage with Oda rather as the other.

Tokugawa never broke from Oda. Oda Nobunaga was assassinated along with his son/successor in 1582 and Oda clan became a minor faction within what used to be Nobunaga's empire succeeded by Hideyoshi. Technically Tokugawa was an 'ally' of Oda but Oda was so dominant in the relationship Tokugawa was practically Oda's vassal.
Tokugawa would go on to become Toyotomi Hideyoshi's vassal, and only after Hideyoshi died did Tokugawa defeat Hideyoshi's son and become the Shogun.


About the bug I just tested with Tokugawa till 1550 and it hasn't happened to me. I will try to test more but can you guys give me an idea about when it shows up?

[bombadier]

Cheers for the history lesson dude,Diplomacy seems crazy at times with military access becoming indefinite for no reason, dont know why its happening........ checked the turn,have a save at 48 turns and I cant declare war on Oda,thanks again for looking into this,the other problem is that I cant seem to sour relations with Oda enough for them to declare war,assassinating,inciting unrest, making then breaking trade agreements,friendly terms with enemy clans,nothing seems to make them hate me,oh and this happens on every new campaign.
I have attached a screenshot of my data folder and a copy of the save game if of interest.

EDIT: When you played to turn 50 was Imagawa or whatever they are callled still alive and kicking or were they gone,could be related?
Cheers again for any help

[Gallus Domesticus]

EDIT: When you played to turn 50 was Imagawa or whatever they are callled still alive and kicking or were they gone,could be related?

Thanks for the info! That was indeed the problem.
The game seem to have hardcoded the Tokugawa *player* as a vassal of Imagawa (I am guessing it's since Tokugawa is the only playable vassal clan). It was set up for the Tokugawa player to be able to rebel against Imagawa and no anyone else.

The solution is to just declare independence from Imagawa naturally when playing Tokugawa and then ally with Oda.


...So I've made this version for you Tokugawa people: Attachment 170769
Which makes Oda and Tokugawa at peace with +130 historical friendship between them. Just declare war on Imagawa then make alliance with Oda(will need some trade and military access as bargain).

Throw it into your Data folder and remember to turn off both the original Oda Tokugawa alliance and Oda boost in the launcher.

Tokugawa Ieyasu happened to be a childhood friend of Oda Nobunaga if you're interested.

I'll see if Darth wants this in the launcher. I think he mentioned that the Oda Boost mod also adds some historical friendship. Not sure how well that already works.

EDIT: Ok Oda Boost already does this for +50 friendship. If you find it still too hard to make the alliance with +50 then use my version.

[Instance]

Wouldn't it solve the issue to have Tokugawa and Oda start as allies supplemented with a high historical friendship? This continue to portray the historical correctness aswell.

Just a thought,
-Instance

[Gallus Domesticus]

I tried that. The problem is that Tokugawa is hardcoded as a vassal of Imagawa. Regardless of what diplomatic relationships I set, Tokugawa's diplomatic options are chained to Imagawa's UNTIL the Tokugawa player declares independence from Imagawa *in game*.
Tokugawa(as a vassal) can only declare war on either factions Imagawa is at war with, or on Imagawa itself. That part is what seem to be hardcoded.
Best theory I got is that CA got lazy and implemented human player vassal options only for Tokugawa(since human players can't be made into vassals in game and no other playable clan starts as a vassal). Tokugawa becomes independent by declaring independence *from Imagawa*, not whoever is set as its patron in Startpos, and even if Tokugawa isn't set as anyone's vassal.

When I make Tokugawa neutral to Imagawa, Tokugawa is still unable to declare war as soon as Imagawa dies. Tokugawa must declare war on Imagawa *as a vassal of Imagawa* in order to be independent.

Until evidence points otherwise, I am ruling out the possibility of some value elsewhere or something in some other file being responsible for this. Every other diplomatic relationship for every other faction works as intended when set in startpos, and I've remade the Oda Tokugawa alliance countless times from fresh vanilla startpos, double checking every time, as well as test the mentioned variations amongst others and all I can say is the thing's hardcoded.

One question that might help me if any of you can answer is: without the Oda-Tokugawa alliance mod, when Tokugawa kills Oda and expands many times larger than Imagawa, does Tokugawa ever declare war on Imagawa(or vice versa?)? I tried giving Imagawa and Tokugawa massive historical grievance(-500) but I have yet to see them fight. If I can force this to happen naturally (that is, have AI Imagawa declare war on Tokugawa, and have AI Oda then offer the alliance) then the problem can be solved with one single file rather than alternate files for when one plays as Tokugawa.
But isn't it much, much easier to just do it manually? Tokugawa Ieyasu did it manually. You do it manually.

The alliance is very secure with the +130 historical friendship so I wouldn't worry about Oda backstabbing me. When you play as the other factions, just switch back to the normal Oda Tokugawa mod and everything is rosy.