Consulate of Silius and Poplicola - 481AVC

[Maiar93]

To my knowledge the Quaestor's law has gotten enough support that it is automatically through. We do not need to hold a vote, when the majority has already pledged their support on it.

He continued:

For Lurco, the same thing. His motion has been approved and he is free to fulfill his duty as a messenger.

There was a slight change in his tone when he began to talk:

For the two soon-to-be captured cities i support your idea. Let us hold the vote here.. everybody's present, so let it begin!

Taras's and Rhegion's population is to be left unharmed, and the soldiers shall not harm the cities in any way.

Are we satisfied with this motion?

OOC: My knowledge of Latin is complete zero. I couldn't find a name for this

[Pharoah]

Yea

[Merula]

May i suggest one slight amendment to that motion Praetor,

Taras's and Rhegion's population is to be left unharmed, if they submit peacefully, and the soldiers shall not harm the cities in any way. If not, they shall face slavery, or worse as judged by the presiding Consul of Roma.

I think you will find this covers all the loopholes Senators, but please, feel free to discuss this further...


ooc: just been on google translate, maybe it should be called Senatus Consultum Ad Fortunam De Rhegium Et Taras "Resolution of the Senate regarding the fate of Rhegium and Taras", its not very good, you will have to ask dragoon for a proper translation, but its the best i could come up with in 5 min

[Maiar93]

Flavius seemed satisfied, after all he wanted the best for Rome...

Very well Merula. It shall be submitted so..

[Kubrick]

Marcus Sempronius rises.

Praetor, Senator, there is only one question that remains for me, just to make it clear for me and maybe fellow Senators. There is just another side to the line 'if they submit peacefully' that might get interpreted wrong by some people. I understand this means that the population accepts the presence of our Legion and the fact they are then under Roman dominance. Not that if the enemy army will resist our siege that the population will get slaughtered?

If it is the first I while joyfully vote in agreement with the proposal.

Marcus returns to his seat. 'Loopholes.. There's always loopholes for a weazel. Let's hope none is cunning enough.'

[CK23]

Imperious was sitting and raised an eyebrow to viewed the Senate was a suspicion. "Traitors should die a traitors death, traitors deserve no compassion." Imperious stood, his hands folded behind his back as he approached the Senate floor. "Senators. You believe that anyone who turns their back against the Republic should be left unharmed? Can you contemplate what that will do to future generations when they look back?" Imperious paused and eyed the seats of the Consuls, who were off conducting true Roman diplomacy. "Neither of these Consuls, in right mind, can allow traitors to come back in the bosom of Rome? How could we answer to the Plebeians who would ask why men and women who turned their back on our way of life be allowed back into our good graces? Can anyone answer that?"

[Nota']

I suggest the extermination of all free men in the soon to be fallen city. The slaves, women and children become the property of Roma, assisting our treasury in the process.
Secondly I support that the Quaestor's name alone should be on the law that he composed.

[Rex Basiliscus]

"Praetor, please put the motion regarding taxation to vote. I think we all agree it should look like this:

Lex Basilisci De Re Census 481AUC
1. The taxes at: Arretium and Arpi are to be set to very high, until the end of the war with Epeiros
2. The taxes at: Capua and Ariminum are to be set to high, until the end of the war with Epeiros
3. The fleet at Arretium will be disbanded
4. The Taxes in Rome shall remain unchanged at the standard.

On the note of the fate of Taras and Rhegion, I think we should vote separately, as they do not share similar roads to their rebellion/hostility. Something like this:

Senatus Consultum Ad Fortunam De Rhegium
1. The population of Rhegion shall not be harmed or prosecuted for their rebellion against Rome; the captains who lead the revolt will be brought to Rome on trial for treason
2. The population of Rhegion shall be enslaved and brought to Rome in chains to be sold on the markets; the captains who lead the revolt will be brought to Rome on trial for treason
3. The male population of Rhegion shall be crucified as traitors, their women and children sold as slaves in the markets of Rome; the captains who lead the revolt will be brought to Rome on trial for treason, or crucified alongside them - as the consul in charge should see fit

And for Taras:

Senatus Consultum Ad Fortunam De Taras
1. The population of Taras shall not be harmed or prosecuted in any way; the noblemen who designed plans to invite Pyrrhus to wage his illegal war in Italy are to be brought to Rome on trial for the crimes against the Republic - if they are found guilty, their property is to be confiscated by Rome
2. The population of Taras shall be enslaved for aiding Pyrrhus in his efforts against Rome; the noblemen who sided with Pyrrhus will be imprisoned or executed (as the consul would see fit), and their properties confiscated by Rome
3. The male population of Taras shall be executed for their acts of hostility against Rome, their women and children sold as slaves in the markets in Rome; the noblemen who sided with Pyrrhus shall be executed and their properties confiscated by Rome

If anyone has something to add, speak up. We must vote on these matters quickly. As we have heard, consul Poplicola is already at Taras."

[CK23]

"Senator, the Taras motion is acceptable and second the motion...however the Rhegion proposition is contradictory in the first two proposals.." Senator Imperious pointed out to the esteemed Senator.

[War lord]

Senato Consultum Ad Fortunam Rhegion

To even flirt with the idea of showing mercy to those who would harbour traitors to Rome is an affront to Roman Justice,therefore I Veto the motion.

Senatus Consultum Ad Fortunam De Taras

The population of Taras made war against Rome,they cast out those who wished to maintain peace and mocked our ambassadors,they then invited a Foreign King,Pyrrhus of Epirus,to make war against us and caused the loss of many Roman lives,this was unforgivable,the people deserve vengeance,therefore I Veto the motion!

For these reasons I have Vetoed both motions,and recommend that the Senate leave the decision of whether to show mercy to the people of Taras and Rhegion in the capable hands of Consul Poplicola and Consul Silius respectively.

[Merula]

Marcus looks at the Tribune with disbelief, the man was a murderer, showing no compassion when supporting the extermination of an entire city. Marcus had been in that situation before, the front line, the one ordered to do the killing....somewhere near Heraclea...a small town...women and children screaming...blood staining his sandles...no don't remember that, move on... he speaks..

It is a shame you feel this way Tribune, but we must submit to your veto, and let fate do what she will to the populations of the towns... the average man will not take kindly i think to a fiend who will massacre populations as if he was choosing which toga to wear... he sits

[CK23]

"I concur with the Tribune on the issue of showing mercy, the populations of the town should be slaughtered." Senator Imperious added.

[Winter]

"Such impeity!"

Lepidus stands to speak. The usual clamor of the hall dimmed after the senator's powerful accusation, a potent one in the consecrated temple in which they all sat.

"Patres Conscripti, I am yet a young man. I have not sat in this hall as long as many of you, I have not your experience, nor your worldly nature. Yet I should like to think that I can spot an act of gross impropriety and impiety as the hateful and dangerous rhetoric I have heard today. I have heard talk of spoiling a city, of killing an entire population of men and leaving a city in ruins! Of slaughtering a town because it happened to be seized by a rogue Roman army! What talk! What bare hubris, to so beat and degrade a surrendered people!"

Lepidus stalks forward, moving his arms with his oration.

"Consider our rise to prominence, Senators, consider our confederacy of Italian states. What one of them have we so ill-treated, when they have submitted to our authority? Our strength, the reason the dread king Pyrrhus could not turn our allies, is how we treat those selfsame nations! We do not subjugate, we assimilate! Our alliances, our bonds of friendship with onetime foes are the hallmark of our commonwealth! It is our own virtue - the Roman art - to spare those who lay humbled at our feet.

Surely, the proud deserve and rightly will fall before our armies. Those leaders who will incite a people to an unjust war, those who would call in aid from across a sea to ravage a land rather than retreat, than relinquish their rights of rule. The cowardly soldiers, and their craven leaders, who would seize a town and fight against their kin. They will fall to us and we shall exact our revenge upon them, under the auspices of the Republic and the sanction of the gods. Yet, to talk of slaughtering the citizenry of entire cities, a surrendered and defenseless people - is this not hubris as Aristotle taught? And do the gods not have a way of punishing those who act with hubris?"

A step forward and a solemn expression

"Senators, beyond moral concerns, the impiety of this action would be too much to bear for our people. To think that Senators of Rome can sit in a consecrated temple and casually order a people, if not innocent, then at least not malevolent, to wholesale slaughter ought to be ludicrous. I ought not have to say such things to well meaning men. And yet here we are. I hope, nay, I beg you to stay your rage, stay your anger, and smother your pride. The lives of thousands of men who have not raised a sword against us may be ended by a word from this body, or they may be spared. Rome may yet show a dutiful and pious clemency to those at our very mercy, or she may enact a revenge most cathartic yet hopelessly depraved. I urge you Patres, in your wisdom, to see past the passion of this moment and choose the right course, the proper course, the responsible and wise course, and above all, the pious course, and not condemn the men of Tarentum and Rhegion to death at the blade of Rome herself. For all of our sake."

Lepidus finishes and returns to his seat.

[Nota']

*Spurius remained seated.*
Here,here, it is the will of the senate for the men to be spared. Unfortunatly there is no point in us reconsidering. Currently the senate is immobilised, by one man, one position. A man who constantly goes against the will of this entire body of 'noble' senators.
*The word noble seemed a bit forced. Spurius stands*
NO man should have such power, it destructive to our democratic workings! Imagine the uproar if a Patrician marched into the Council of the Plebs and vetoed every motion and law?! No, the tribune has too much power placed in one person, and if it falls in the the hands of a deranged pleb, then gods save us, for the senate is immobilised.

[Kubrick]

Marcus Sempronius is filled with rage, the acts of the Tribune of Plebs, in Marcus his eyes this equals betraying the Republic. This is not protecting the people, this is veto'ing for your own damn benefit. He takes a couple of deep breaths to calm down and stands up.

Gentlemen.. This morning I was informed that both proposals where veto'd by the Tribune of Plebs. This saddens me as both results where in favour of the citizens of those cities. I greatly fail to see the benefit for the people in this veto. But! I put trust in the wisdom of the Consul to treat the citizens of both cities with respect.

Marcus walks back to his seat. This situation is getting out of hand, a true Sophus must act.

[Maiar93]

'Once you have taken a path, you do not easily turn from it.. yet, this man's friendship may turn to be rewarding.. '

The motions you are speaking of are already vetoed by our dear Tribune, Caldius..

He nods towards Caldius.

In my opinion we shall not harm the citizens of Taras, as they have been loyal to Rome. They have recognized our greatness from afar, and hated their tyranth for a reason.

His voice became a little louder when he continued:

Yet should we let the rebelled city without a punishment? The world may think that we are weak if we submit peace in their terms. Extermination, in my case, is out of question. Why should we, Romans, annihilate a prospering city?!

Now he turned to Lepidus with a smile on his face. His voice was slightly mocking when he said:

But because the motions are vetoed, it is now in the hands of our Consul, Poplicola, to make the decision...

Flavius now turned to Scaeva:

If a Tribune vetoes every law and motion that is put up, he will be investigated. Have no worry for that, Senator.

Now, addressing the whole Curia hall he said:

Please keep calm, senators. It is now in the hands of the Consul to decide what to do about the cities. Now we can only wait instead of telling horror stories about what the Consul might do.

[Merula]

Marcus stands...

In any case good Praetor, I think you will find it is not up to the Consul Poplicola to decide the fate of both cities, only Taras. The man that i thought was chosen to take the other city is, he looks around the chamber, Senior Consul Silius....is that not so? Or in your mind does Poplicola speak for both men?

Marcus eyes Corvenus in a friendly mocking way, a raised eyebrow followed by a chuckle... I do not wish to cause fuss, but just remind the Senate not to forget about our other honourable Consul Silius.

Marcus retakes his seat, amused that the rest of the chamber had completely forgotten about poor Piso, who was cast completely into Poplicola's shadow. Valerius seemed to have a way with people and words that the other Consul lacked...by the gods, Piso had not even bothered to show up to most of the senate meetings! 'What an interesting life i lead now', Marcus mused..

[War lord]

It was Senator Imperious who spoke of slaughtering the inhabitants of Taras,save your half baked Rhetoric and indignation for him,I have said no such thing,I find the idea of wholesale slaughter as repulsive as you do.Senators perhaps you should be more worried about your lack of fate in Consul Poplicola,the final decision rests with him,not I,who is a loyal servant of the republic.

[Nota']

*Spurius laughed. He beckoned the the scribe, looked over his papers then read aloud.'

Senato Consultum Ad Fortunam Rhegion
Quote:
Originally Posted by War lord
To even flirt with the idea of showing mercy to those who would harbour traitors to Rome is an affront to Roman Justice,therefore I Veto the motion.

Senatus Consultum Ad Fortunam De Taras

Quote:
Originally Posted by War lord
The population of Taras made war against Rome,they cast out those who wished to maintain peace and mocked our ambassadors,they then invited a Foreign King,Pyrrhus of Epirus,to make war against us and caused the loss of many Roman lives,this was unforgivable,the people deserve vengeance,therefore I Veto the motion!

For these reasons I have Vetoed both motions,and recommend that the Senate leave the decision of whether to show mercy to the people of Taras and Rhegion in the capable hands of Consul Poplicola and Consul Silius respectively.

'Vengence' is a very strong word Caldius, and you wish that they are shown no mercy because of this affront to Roman justice, it all suggests you want their heads on a pike. I mean, how else does one not show mercy and not slaughter them, because after all letting them live is an act of mercy.

[War lord]

But am I Consul?

I have left the matter in the hands of the Consul,who I believe can make the correct decision free of any prejudice,yours or my own,he has assured me that he will bring Justice to Rome's enemies.I trust in his judgment,perhaps you should do the same.

After a pause.

I also recall a very interesting statement by you Scaeva,what was it?

"I suggest the extermination of all free men in the soon to be fallen city. The slaves, women and children become the property of Roma, assisting our treasury in the process."

Women AND Children! How merciful!