Please Post your hints and guides here. Best ones get featured.
Interesting that your rebels from incite actions of monks become part of your army if they take a castle. I think its important not to grow too fast past your religion conversion rate. Otherwise, you have units parked in castles keeping the peace. Cash flow is decent. Downside is the diplomacy hit for your religious differences with other factions.
are you sure, I mean does this really happen?
regarding the incitement? yes, this really happens. Not only that, but because temples spread religion,any nearby provinces with an Ikko Ikki majority that rebel on their own get turned over to you as well.
I had a flawless campaign by building a temple in every province. Not only are you able to train warriors easily in every area but you easily spread your religion too. Take the Religious perk on your general too, and you'll be converting people like crazy.
Last edited by Wulf Soldat; May 28, 2011 at 10:33 PM.
But it certainly explains their rapid early growth. Train up a couple of good monks and you're unstoppable in the early stages. Once other factions start establishing themselves and more securely defending their borders it becomes somewhat more difficult.
Definitely a good way to get your first three or four settlements, though.
I have to say, though, I find diplomacy staggeringly unpredictable as the Ikko. I've always found people over-react massively to the diplomacy system, I find it's pretty reliable and pretty solid. But playing as the Ikko, my longest-standing allies seem happy to disown me and attack at the drop of the hat.
He thinks he's Rambo.
How are the ikko ikki's ashigaru unit compare to other clans? I notice that there is more men, but are weaker?
Higher morale but their archer are also more expansive. But I guess having an artisan and a forge in the beginning territory mean they will at least be superior units after the increase in attack& accuracy.
Also how about the ronin? should I try to build them?
Also no metsuke so you can't pop them in cities to increase tax rate & repression.
The warrior monk is good but very expansive so its hard to have more than 4-5 of them, and they don't benefit from the forge( at least with armor) which mean we would want to grab yamato or ise for the religious building fast and get the higher level monks.
I guess it's important to get allies early because once you start expanding and its gets annoying and hard to make friends since the religious difference + expansion minus makes it expansive to try any diplomacy
Where is good to expand? I think north is an bad idea because it opens up too much place for getting attacked and Noto and Etchu isn't doesn't have any special resources & farm is meager or & mediocre at best. South however you got Omi which is nice and open up a lot of options in turn of the Provence near kyoto. Settsu have school, Kii is very fertile with ninja school and yamato and Ise with religious building.
I expanded too fast on my first time and are forced into being attacked by too many unwanted enemy and can't make allies
Probably my biggest surprise with the Ikko DLC is that they didn't make the Ikko warrior monks more affordable. I appreciate they were caught in a situation where they couldn't make them too similar to the Uesugi but I would have thought they'd try and, maybe, balance it out a little bit.
With the Uesugi I find it easy to field vast armies of Sohei due to the impressive trade income and the discount to monk production and upkeep. With the Ikko they're still very expensive and difficult to maintain, even though they're supposedly integral to the concept. It's a shame, really, although it does make the Ikko more challenging to play which is something a lot of people have been calling for at least.
The ronin are worth it, though, yes. They're very strong, very solid units and you need a little bit of that to sure up your ashigaru. I'd say the improved morale and unit sizes easily compensates for the slightly lesser abilities of your yari ashigaru, I've found them very, very dependable defending sieges.
He thinks he's Rambo.
Anyone get far on legendary difficulty? I'm getting my butt kicked.
Im trying at Legendary level without auto calculation , im afraid to say its nearely impossible
I may think with auto calculation battle may be possible since ai calculation goes for the large army.
Thoughts so far from my attempts on Hard:
1) Build up a Weaponsmith in Kaga, as your Yari Ashigaru need an extra boost to melee attack to be able to stand up in combat. The extra numbers and morale don't mean a thing when they take heavy casualties even against other clans' Yari Ashigaru and break due to that morale loss. By the same token, prioritize getting Stand and Fight on your generals.
2) Ikko rebels turning the provinces over to you is both a blessing and a curse. It's good because it lets you expand your territory without declaring war or committing your troops, and in this way can make up for not having a Metsuke to bribe undefended settlements. It's bad because it makes it harder to create buffer zones between you and other clans, and because religious conversion working in the background will create rebellions even when you're trying to lie low and build up while the diplomatic penalty for expansion subsides. Also, watch out for Naginata Warrior Monk Cavalry: These guys have a whopping 250 upkeep each, and I've seen rebel groups spawn with 3 units of them. Be ready to disband them after they take over a province and come under your control to save your economy.
3) Early game positioning: I recommend making peace with the Jinbo and anyone who takes over their land. Kaga is a valuable, defensible province; Noto and Etchu, on the other hand are poor provinces that will complicate your Eastern defenses. On the Western side, you'd ideally be able to leave Wakasa alone, but the Sakai clan always seem to have it in for the Ikko, so you'll probably have to take them out for Echizen to be secure. When you're ready, expand into Omi, and from that point on you have to play it by ear depending on the political situation. So far in my attempts I've managed to keep whatever clan held the lands East of Ise from attacking me, but if the Oda gain those lands then you'll probably get a sore neck from watching your back so much. The Hattori will probably be a problem on any playthrough, but at least they'll give you an excuse to take the valuable lands around Kyoto.
4) Trade trade trade. Trade is the diplomatic bonus that will keep the combination of "Religious Differences" and "Territorial Expansion" from turning into a mini-RD. Don't be surprised if other clans randomly break off trade relations because they don't like you, but don't stop trying to get trade agreements, because it's your only easy source of positive relations and you need the extra income to maintain your armies.
5) Katana Ronin are a must. You'll be tempted to go Yari Drill Yard first in Kaga to build up to Naginata Warrior Monks, but as I alluded to above, your Yari Ashigaru are surprisingly worthless in the early game. You need Katana ASAP to flank and relieve your ashigaru before they break. And while you're at it, Bow Ronin in Echizen will give your archer line some actual killing power.
Last edited by Kaigen; May 31, 2011 at 12:23 PM. Reason: typo
Yes, I just beat it. I'd generally back what Kaigen said but make some modifications.Anyone get far on legendary difficulty? I'm getting my butt kicked.
1. Do not use Kaga, as tempting as it is to take advantage of a starting blacksmith. Instead, use your capital town for recruitment because it costs too much and takes too long to get Kaga to producing two units in one turn. You needed Katana Ronin yesterday after all.
2. I'd go beyond Kaigen suggestion and recommend Alliances, Alliances, Alliances with strong factions who can "hold" a particular N/E/W/S facing. In a way its nice to be REQUIRED strategically to PAY for alot of friends, your young son as a hostage is priceless in this situation, rather than just storming through everyone because IKIK can quickly become surrounded by a ring of hostile nations.
Experience has taught me its almost impossible to avoid war with the non-majors to the north-west, Takeda makes a good ally to the east, and there are too many variable to predict who will win in the south but you need somebody; I normally start by allying with the green colored minor faction and, in my recent game, had a long running alliance with the Oda. Try and avoid going too alliance happy at the beginning in order to avoid losing honor or backing the wrong side and suffering a rep hit with the faction you actually want to ally with.
If you cannot avoid a war through alliances then cheat and take advantage of the AIs willingness to break alliance for trifling sums. Find the faction that will declare war on you and strip them of their allies. The reason being that once his allied factions declares war on you there is no going back; because of the way diplomacy is modeled you will now have a large pool of enemies until the end of the game.
3. It's impossible to avoid using Ashigaru because of their cost-efficiency relative to the Ronin units but IKIK Ashigaru should only be utilized defensively, i.e. castle sieges, until you get a General who is maxed on the Infantry Commander skill. I researched guns in my game and was shocked to discover that IKIK Matchlock Ashigaru have 10 accuracy compared to the 30 of stock MA. Still, with an infantry oriented general, IKIK Ashigaru can take advantage of their superior #s and grind an opponent down.
4. IKIK rebellions cost too much for their utility; don't rely on them. In fact, your religion is a noose around your neck that constricts anytime you try to expand too aggressively by forcing you to place large money draining garrisons to counteract the religious unhappiness. Take advantage of the your Monk's skill tree and starting ability to inspire towns. You'll need their happiness generation to free up military units.
5. Vassals are unreliable until AFTER realm divide occurs. Then, with the entire island at war with you, it can be very beneficial to have access to an incompetent, unit spamming teamates who will be your only trade partners for the rest of the game. In my game I created three vassals, two of whom were destroyed thanks to stupid strategic decisions, while the other, Tokugawa, locked down the southern coastline for me.
From what u post i dont belive u beat AI on legendary
U talking about alliances and alliances , No ikko allies are reliable !!! I payed takeda 5000 gold to allie with me , in 3 turns they break it and attack me.
This was the only way I could think to include a notice of my difficulty in the screenshot. I am at 39 provinces on a 40 province game (fyi, I don't do sixty because a player has long won the game by 60) so this autosave occurred just before my 40th capture.
Alliances are best achieved through providing hostages and military access; although sometimes the AI really dislikes military access offers so you need to tinker. Cash will work but, normally, must be offered in large amounts that break a players bank. I've spent 10 turns in some games recovering from tribute payments to the AI.
The AI will break its alliances with you, there is no way around it, although I believe the AI's relationship with you is determined by some unknown calculations which factor in the total size of your armed forces and your total # of enemies. If you want to reduce the chance of an alliance break keep a big army and fewer enemies. You need to remember ultimately no alliance will survive Realm Divide so alliances are always about short term gain.
However, just because an alliance is broken does not mean you cannot renegotiate. Now, to be clear, its either renegotiate or go to war and, as I've said, once war is declared there is no going back beyond either an extremely short peace agreement or vassalage. As the Usuegi, in one game, I once renegotiated my alliance with the Takeda 3!!! times before it finally stuck; quite possibly because that point every other clan hated their backstabbing guts and I was the only friend left. Takeda are particularly prone to breaking alliances because of their "aggressive" nature but you can bring them back into the fold.
I suggest getting alliances at the start, the AI tends to be more receptive, and offering the bare minimum to secure the alliance (indicated by a "high" chance of acceptance). That way if things fall apart, you can up the ante, say 20 turns military access rather than the 10 they had previously.
Good job Ceorl. I'm getting better. I got to turn 50 with about 8 regions before I got gang banged.
Observations to date:
Vassal are a good way to expand in the early and mid game were Buddhism regions are still strong. Of course, all the negatives for vassals are still in play.
Alliances with non-major clans does not seem to work well in the long run. Alliances with major clans seem to be fruitful.
Non-major clans battlefield performance tends to be lack luster. A fight with a major clan usually leads to "end of the game."
No proof of this, but marry enemy clan members will produce out children for you. It will for sure buff up your rep with that clan.
Last edited by Ionn; June 03, 2011 at 11:26 AM.
Ceorl, I like the idea of removing the allies of bordering clans that will (eventually) declare war on you with bribes. Very smart.
Honestly that dynamic is busted. I mean why would a faction about to declare war on me give up its alliances in exchange for military access that will be revoked the moment they declare war? Plus, there is the utility of military access relative to alliances in the first place. Also I can't take credit for the idea, got it from reading in these forums.
However, when fighting an AI who can maintain two full stacks of samurai units from a single province that generates 1500 koku, I tend to fight fire with fire.
Well, it is what it is, and its just a game. We do what we can to get an advantage since the AI "cheats" on legend level.
Ceorl, I like your additions to my suggestions. I generally tend to try to avoid alliances because I hate getting dragged into wars (and the AI's always at war with somebody), and also, if for whatever reason it becomes necessary to attack your neighbor, it seems like you need to wait quite a long time after breaking an alliance before attacking them if you want to avoid the "Dishonoring Treaties" penalty. That said, right before (or after) RD is a great time to grab friends because the high initial diplomacy bonus for making an alliance will help keep them on your side longer (and at that point wars are practically unavoidable anyway).
AI receptiveness to Military Access seems to depend on whether or not they can actually use it. For example, if the only land border you share with a clan is mountainous and impassible, you'll be able to conduct land based trade, but the AI will recognize that they can't actually use military access with you and so will turn it down if it costs them anything.
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