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Thread: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

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    Default TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    If you need help with playing the mod and discus gameplay strategies this is the right place.

  2. #2
    Kurisu Paifuaa's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    I've a question which is probably more general in nature than TROM specific, but I'll ask in this thread as my playtime is near exclusively limited to this mod and I respect the interest in game mechanics of everyone here.

    I'm baffled by the intention of the UI tooltip with regard to trade routes. Specifically, the import column that shows an icon for imported resources along that path isn't intuitive to me (or it's bugged). There is (at most) a single entry in the imports column for each clan shown in the tooltip. It would seem there should be multiple icons displayed at times as paths converge which carry different imports. For example, I can trace incense, silk and horses coming along three separate routes to me (carrying only those goods) and merging to one path (there are no other connections at this point where goods could be diverted). After the merge, only silk is displayed in the import column, but the total value adds up correctly from the three converging routes. What's going on? Is the UI truncating that column or am I misunderstanding trade route mechanics? I've considered various alternative interpretations of the tooltip, but those scenarios would still call for multiple resource icons being displayed in the import column.

    Any insight greatly appreciated

    edit: This question arises out of trying to lay out a strategy for gimping the trade revenues of clans with which I'm at war. There doesn't seem to be a way to adequately gauge their import routes (or protect my own).
    Last edited by Kurisu Paifuaa; May 29, 2011 at 11:19 AM.

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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    First lets see if I understand what is going on here: You are examining a trade rout, seemingly one of your own but I guess that dosen't realy matter. On this rout there are a number of resourses being shiped and your trade ledger shows the value of all the resourses from the varous tributaries of this main line but in the section where it shows resourses there is only an icon for one. Is that right? I don't know for sure but it seems that the UI is limited to showing just one trade item on a rout and therefor is just picking one, probably the most abundant or most valuable trade item being shiped.

    If you are looking for the quickest way to stop up enemy trade the awnser is much simpler than you seem to be making it. Attack the port systems of your enemys. With no active port they won't have any accses to trade good. In my Ikko campain I only have one trade port and no navy to speek of and got shut down by two enemy ships. Cut my income consiterabley. If it is overland routs you are trying to criple things get a little more dicey. I don't konw if you can park an army on a road rout and stop up the trade there. I supose the only way I know to stop trade by land, then, is to cut the line off; capture land between your enemy and their trade partners. It can be a bit of a gamble as it might open a new front in your conflict but if you properly prepair for the hardship it can be managed.

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    Kurisu Paifuaa's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Disaray View Post
    First lets see if I understand what is going on here: You are examining a trade rout, seemingly one of your own but I guess that dosen't realy matter. On this rout there are a number of resourses being shiped and your trade ledger shows the value of all the resourses from the varous tributaries of this main line but in the section where it shows resourses there is only an icon for one. Is that right? I don't know for sure but it seems that the UI is limited to showing just one trade item on a rout and therefor is just picking one, probably the most abundant or most valuable trade item being shiped.

    If you are looking for the quickest way to stop up enemy trade the awnser is much simpler than you seem to be making it. Attack the port systems of your enemys. With no active port they won't have any accses to trade good. In my Ikko campain I only have one trade port and no navy to speek of and got shut down by two enemy ships. Cut my income consiterabley. If it is overland routs you are trying to criple things get a little more dicey. I don't konw if you can park an army on a road rout and stop up the trade there. I supose the only way I know to stop trade by land, then, is to cut the line off; capture land between your enemy and their trade partners. It can be a bit of a gamble as it might open a new front in your conflict but if you properly prepair for the hardship it can be managed.


    Thanks for the reply Disaray. You've confirmed for me that it's common for just a single resource icon to be showing per row in the tooltip and not some odd resolution cutoff specific to my system (I tried a number different resolutions and aspect ratios).

    Yes, I was describing converging trade routes owned by myself alone, but it is the same case for all trade route tooltips despite ownership. Actually, attacking ports is my intention, but I'm wanting to use the tooltip to help determine the most effective targets. Against a large opponent with lots of routes it's difficult to determine what's going where. I might want to specifically cut off an enemy's supply of warhorses, for example, but at the point closest to the port(s) warhorses might not show, particularly if it's as you suggest and the most valuable commodity icon is the only one displayed. You're basically forced to back-trace the route, which may or may not show you warhorses at some point depending on what else is being exported. Likewise, I may wish to defend my own supply of something valuable or specifically useful, but it's tedious if not impossible to trace the supply line accurately.

    In any case, it seems then this is a limitation of the UI and is either a bug or a really bad simplification. I'm surprised I couldn't find any mention in the various bug threads or anywhere else.

  5. #5

    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Hi, I just started using the TROM campaign mod, and I do have a question: How do I recruit Nagae-Yari ashigaru? Does it have any prerequisite building? I just researched the tech and it does say that it allows me to recruit nagae-yari, but I cant select it from the recruitment tab. Is it possible to make it as an 'upgrade' for standard yari ashigaru, effectively making the yari obsolete?

    Also, I noticed that the monastery doesnt have a tooltip for some reason. I have a temple and wanted to upgrade to monastery, but it doesnt pop up the tooltip or show me what upgrades that I got when upgrading. I think this might be a bug too...

    Finally, the samurais for me are ok, not too overpowering. I'm not using the UAI mod though, so that might make a difference. I saw the v2.0 UAI mods rely too much on katana samurai and underplay all other units. The only thing is the AI seems to spawn it endlessly. Does the AI not have any cap on the samurai units and also money? Weird that they keep sending me stacks of samurais and they only have 2-3 provinces...

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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Quote Originally Posted by peank View Post
    Hi, I just started using the TROM campaign mod, and I do have a question: How do I recruit Nagae-Yari ashigaru? Does it have any prerequisite building? I just researched the tech and it does say that it allows me to recruit nagae-yari, but I cant select it from the recruitment tab. Is it possible to make it as an 'upgrade' for standard yari ashigaru, effectively making the yari obsolete?

    Also, I noticed that the monastery doesnt have a tooltip for some reason. I have a temple and wanted to upgrade to monastery, but it doesnt pop up the tooltip or show me what upgrades that I got when upgrading. I think this might be a bug too...

    Finally, the samurais for me are ok, not too overpowering. I'm not using the UAI mod though, so that might make a difference. I saw the v2.0 UAI mods rely too much on katana samurai and underplay all other units. The only thing is the AI seems to spawn it endlessly. Does the AI not have any cap on the samurai units and also money? Weird that they keep sending me stacks of samurais and they only have 2-3 provinces...
    For nagae-ashigaru you need both the spear and the ashigaru sergeants tech. The AI has a cap on units but I am still not shure if unit caps for the AI work properly. In the latest version I tried to remove some cheats and in the next version I will also remove the +1 recruitment slot advantage the AI gets on VH/L. So, beside having more moeny the CAI should be equal to the human player when it comes to recruiting units.

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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarkis de Bodemloze View Post
    For nagae-ashigaru you need both the spear and the ashigaru sergeants tech. The AI has a cap on units but I am still not shure if unit caps for the AI work properly. In the latest version I tried to remove some cheats and in the next version I will also remove the +1 recruitment slot advantage the AI gets on VH/L. So, beside having more moeny the CAI should be equal to the human player when it comes to recruiting units.
    Sounds great. It is quite annoying since the Takeda just sent me 2 stacks with 4-5 katana samurais each and about 4-6 more daikyu (bow?) samurais.

    Also, is it possible to have the bow samurais (and monks) raised their accuracy slightly? Maybe around 50 and 55 for monks? Seems like the accuracy for both of them seems to be a little too low.

    The monastery tooltip and the nagae yari might need to be addressed (so it is more informative)

    Any word on when the next version might be? Thank you very much!

  8. #8
    Sol Invictus's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    I don't think the AI caps are working correctly since I have run across a couple of AI armies that contain almost all Yari Samurai and Yumi Samurai.

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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Isn't the cap something like 8-10 units? That would make it pheasable to have an army comprized of almost entierly yari samurai if a faction could afford them.

    I just had an idea about this unit cap thing, not sure if it would work thought. Is it possible to tie unit recrutment to a resource, the way you need sertan things to biuld some of the biuldings? If that could be done then all it would take is making a new resource, or repurposing an exsisting one, and tieing samurai units to it and then distributing that resourse across the map. Just kind of an off the top of my head idea though.

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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Quote Originally Posted by peank View Post
    Sounds great. It is quite annoying since the Takeda just sent me 2 stacks with 4-5 katana samurais each and about 4-6 more daikyu (bow?) samurais.

    Also, is it possible to have the bow samurais (and monks) raised their accuracy slightly? Maybe around 50 and 55 for monks? Seems like the accuracy for both of them seems to be a little too low.

    The monastery tooltip and the nagae yari might need to be addressed (so it is more informative)

    Any word on when the next version might be? Thank you very much!
    They should not have more then 4 katana samurai. Did you starta new campaign with the latest build?

    With several buildings the tooltips don't work because there is too many information (mainly recruitable units). We are aware of that but can't do much about it until somebody figures out how to change the UI layouts. What we want to do is to update the encyclopaedia, so you get all the infos you need there.

    A word on the next version? AOR units and new buildings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Disaray View Post
    Isn't the cap something like 8-10 units? That would make it pheasable to have an army comprized of almost entierly yari samurai if a faction could afford them.

    I just had an idea about this unit cap thing, not sure if it would work thought. Is it possible to tie unit recrutment to a resource, the way you need sertan things to build some of the buildings? If that could be done then all it would take is making a new resource, or repurposing an exsisting one, and tieing samurai units to it and then distributing that resourse across the map. Just kind of an off the top of my head idea though.
    There is no resource system that works like that in SH2. Resources are not local, but global. I have developed a AOR system, but it works different and is very code intensive. We will partly tie samurai units to that.

  11. #11

    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Sorry for being such a noob, but whats AOR? Cant wait for the new buildings, but I think it is also better to integrate that into the encyclopedia so it will be informative. The new units right now only have very short description so it is not very helpful...

    I started a new game with the campaign and battle mod, but let me play a few more turns and report back.

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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    AOR is, esentualy, a system where sertan units are only available in sertan places. For example let's say a kind of warrior monk was very famous and only came from one monistary. The only people that would be able to recrut that unit would be those that hold the provence that the monistarty is in.

  13. #13

    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Quote Originally Posted by peank View Post
    Sorry for being such a noob, but whats AOR? Cant wait for the new buildings, but I think it is also better to integrate that into the encyclopedia so it will be informative. The new units right now only have very short description so it is not very helpful...

    I started a new game with the campaign and battle mod, but let me play a few more turns and report back.
    AOR is short for "area of recruitment". It measn that some units are only available in certain areas, in the case of TROM3 these are provinces.

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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Sounds very promising. I hope that you will also improve the encyclopedia entry and the tooltip issues, like I mentioned earlier...

    I played around some more, and yes, you are right. The samurais are capped to 5 for each stacks so I was actually seeing lots of ashigarus, not samurais. One thing that I noticed is that the AI upgraded the yari to naginata dojo most of the time, but they only keep on making yari samurai, which is confusing. Also, the stats for naginata (especially melee attack) seems to be better than katana. Is this intended? I thought the naginata is like a middle between yari and katana, and no-dachi is superior (in terms of melee and charge bonus).

    Also, the upkeep cost are now changed across the board? I think this probably is also intended, but is there any reasoning why monks (at least yamabushis) have cheaper cost (but better stats) than samurais? Seems like my strategy now is just going to be always temple + yari (or archery) route, making the samurai a little bit less likely to be built, except for the katana samurais.

    Finally, I think the tech tree line is a bit too convoluted and complicated for ashigaru line. As of now, I dont see the need to go down the ashigaru line as their stat is a low anyway and they are very very easy to rout. A bit wasted but maybe it is just my first impression...

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    Stinkfloyd's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    I think the Ashigaru tech line is important, especially during the late game. With the unit caps for Samurai and Warrior Monks, you are forced to construct armies with more and more ashigaru as the game progresses. I just finished a domination campaign with Mori, H/H in 1598 and I had 6 full stacks at the end, but due to the unit caps I had to spread my samurai out amongst each stack. I love this aspect of the mod as it simulates what happened in real life during this period. I love the way this is headed and can't wait for the next version. Keep up the great work!

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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Quote Originally Posted by peank View Post
    Sounds very promising. I hope that you will also improve the encyclopedia entry and the tooltip issues, like I mentioned earlier...

    I played around some more, and yes, you are right. The samurais are capped to 5 for each stacks so I was actually seeing lots of ashigarus, not samurais. One thing that I noticed is that the AI upgraded the yari to naginata dojo most of the time, but they only keep on making yari samurai, which is confusing. Also, the stats for naginata (especially melee attack) seems to be better than katana. Is this intended? I thought the naginata is like a middle between yari and katana, and no-dachi is superior (in terms of melee and charge bonus).

    Also, the upkeep cost are now changed across the board? I think this probably is also intended, but is there any reasoning why monks (at least yamabushis) have cheaper cost (but better stats) than samurais? Seems like my strategy now is just going to be always temple + yari (or archery) route, making the samurai a little bit less likely to be built, except for the katana samurais.

    Finally, I think the tech tree line is a bit too convoluted and complicated for ashigaru line. As of now, I dont see the need to go down the ashigaru line as their stat is a low anyway and they are very very easy to rout. A bit wasted but maybe it is just my first impression...
    I believe the Naginata Samurai in TROM more represent the daimyos closets retainers and devoted clan warriors, hence the superior stats and name "household samurai". The naginata requires great skill and time to master and relies more on the individual fighting prowess of the wielder unlike the yari which needs cohesion and discipline within a unit for the best effect. Add the fact that the naginata is one of the more traditional samurai weapons it makes sense that such warriors would wield it.

    As for the lower monk upkeep, they also have a very limited unit cap. I think it's 3 for each yamabushi and 2 for sohei (+1 each for Mori, Ikko-Ikki and Uesugi) While the warrior monks really should be a high priority for recruitment they can't do all your fighting and you really need those samurai too.
    "War is a matter of vital importance to the state; a matter of life or death, the road either to survival or to ruin. Hence, it is imperative that it be studied thoroughly." - Sun Tzu

  17. #17

    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Thanks for the input, you are probably right toward the end-game, Stinkfloyd. I am currently playing as Hattori and am having problems even on Normal/Normal. All my neighbors just decided to go to war with me and my useless Ashikaga ally is just bribing army and bring them back to their base without trying to fight them or assist me at all. Most of my other ally either busy with their own war, got decimated early on, or just didnt do anything at all..

    If naginata is going to be the elite line of the game, then I might be playing it wrong then. I just thought that monks are still way better because of the moral and the stat isnt that different (even better) than samurai with the exception of armor. Moreover, does the no-dachi still worth having and fare better than naginata (in terms of stat and battle performance) or usually it is better to stick with naginata and bows? I know in the end-game probably I will use everything, but the unit priority for the campaign mod seems completely change the core of the game, so I kinda need a new 'tutorial' on things

    The other final thing that I noticed is that the army tire quick (seems quicker than the AI as they run across the map and still kick my ass after climbing the fort) but they dont recover as fast. Is there supposed to be any kind of trick or tips for this? Does the 'freshness' level even affect the battle at all usually? Like if I try fighting a very tired yari samurai with my fresh yari ashigaru/samurai, will the outcome be that much different?

    Thank you for the response though, really really helpful. Cant wait for the next version.

  18. #18

    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Both the household naginata samurai and the no-dachi household samurai are elite units. They are smaller units but still superior to yari or katana samurai and only rivaled by the sohei, which are the elite monk units, while yamabuchi are more regular monk units. No-dachi will probably beat naginata, but are more vulnerable to ranged attacks. Monks in general are very good fighters but more tightly capped and harder to get (you need two buildings and more tech). They have a cheaper upkeep because they don't demand that much worldly riches. And yes, units tire quicker in TROM3 and recover slower. The level of tiredness influences combat but I can't give you exact numbers.

  19. #19

    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarkis de Bodemloze View Post
    Both the household naginata samurai and the no-dachi household samurai are elite units. They are smaller units but still superior to yari or katana samurai and only rivaled by the sohei, which are the elite monk units, while yamabuchi are more regular monk units. No-dachi will probably beat naginata, but are more vulnerable to ranged attacks. Monks in general are very good fighters but more tightly capped and harder to get (you need two buildings and more tech). They have a cheaper upkeep because they don't demand that much worldly riches. And yes, units tire quicker in TROM3 and recover slower. The level of tiredness influences combat but I can't give you exact numbers.
    Awesome explanations on the unit differences, I think this is something I can try in the game. I havent even tried the matchlock units first (did you remove matchlock samurai?) I shall try it and give feedback in the appropriate section if needed...

    In regards to tiredness, I think it would be better if you can make the AI also tire as quick as the players as right now they can run around the map and not be tired. Either that, or maybe make the army recover a tad bit faster. It just seems sluggish right now that my archers are tired just walking short distances to cover different sections of the castle and shooting, only to be decimated by very tired yari samurais that have been running around and climbing the walls...

  20. #20
    Bongfu's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: TROM3 - Gameplay Questions & Advices

    Quote Originally Posted by peank View Post
    Awesome explanations on the unit differences, I think this is something I can try in the game. I havent even tried the matchlock units first (did you remove matchlock samurai?) I shall try it and give feedback in the appropriate section if needed...

    In regards to tiredness, I think it would be better if you can make the AI also tire as quick as the players as right now they can run around the map and not be tired. Either that, or maybe make the army recover a tad bit faster. It just seems sluggish right now that my archers are tired just walking short distances to cover different sections of the castle and shooting, only to be decimated by very tired yari samurais that have been running around and climbing the walls...
    Keep in mind that even a tired Samurai is still a lot more potent then Ashigaru. It comes down to stats rather than tiredness. Sure anyone can swing a sword, but Samurai are professionals in every sense of the word. Ashigaru on the other hand were rarely kept around, most of the time they would be armed for a battle or campaign then disbanded shortly after. By the time their services were needed again, those men who served before would be too old or send their younger sons to fight so Ashigaru never had time to gain experience with weapons. Where the Samurai trained their entire lives for one purpose and that was killing people.
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