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Thread: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

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  1. #1

    Default TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Any feedback to the mod is welcome.

  2. #2

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    From old thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarkis de Bodemloze View Post
    B: I lowered the number of recruitment slots, but I will probably change it into a 2 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 4 sequence in the next update.
    !
    Yeah, but what I was saying is Kaga (one of the Ikko starting provinces), specifically, still only had one recruitment slot after being upgraded to ---> Stronghold when it should have had two like all the other cities on the map (I loaded up as some other clans and those provinces had two recruit slots) which is what I found as strange.
    Last edited by Dagda; May 28, 2011 at 07:07 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagda View Post
    From old thread:
    Yeah, but what I was saying is Kaga (one of the Ikko starting provinces), specifically, still only had one recruitment slot after being upgraded to ---> Stronghold when it should have had two like all the other cities on the map (I loaded up as some other clans and those provinces had two recruit slots) which is what I found as strange.
    Actually the mod has 1-1-2-3-4 recruitment slots from forts to citadels in the latest version (but I will change this to 2-2-3-3-4 probably). So other strongholds should not have two slots (maybe a global effect active?).

  4. #4

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarkis de Bodemloze View Post
    Actually the mod has 1-1-2-3-4 recruitment slots from forts to citadels in the latest version (but I will change this to 2-2-3-3-4 probably). So other strongholds should not have two slots (maybe a global effect active?).
    Oh, it was probably a bonus from a mission or something. My fault

    But yeah, 2-2-3-3-4 seems a bit less restricting With the longish length of recruit times it's a bit hard to flesh out a respectable army quickly with only one recruiting slot early game. Uesugi dropped this uber stack on me by turn 5 and I had no real chance to stop them unless I wanted to cheese the siege AI.

  5. #5

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    INCOMING SUGGESTION


    Is it possible to give siege attackers (preferably only the AI) a bonus to morale? or perhaps melee defence?

    My reasoning for this is that often times when an enemy unit scales a wall it ends up being routed quite quickly, and while I as a player can have the sense to avoid situations like that and appropriately postion generals for morale bonus, the AI is terribly inept.

    Defenders get wall bonuses don't they? why not attackers as well.

    it would also stand to argue that the attackers ina siege fight would have a higher morale anyway, after all they are attacking and haven't been surrounded by their enemies for a few seasons.

    if not thats okay too, it just seems that unless they attack with an entire army of samurai, they can't win...ever, and worse yet they can barely kill off a couple units.


    now as far as the mods progress, I had a very enjoyable Takeda campaign. I like the increased recruitment time and if your gonna change the slots might I suggest 1-2-3-3-4. making the lowest level crap but requiring at least 1 upgrade to get 2 slots, and a further upgrade for the 3rd which can be often times a bit challenging early going.
    Last edited by Feldspar; May 28, 2011 at 03:06 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    If the mod team gives a go, I will try my hands on the siege attack things and a few other things. I may join the team, as an adjunct. Is this OK?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    One thing that has always buged me is that yari samurai can't form a spear wall. I mean the ashigaru can and they are only part time warriors, I would think that the full time battlefield elete would be able to do that too. Also the ronin don't have any of the abilities that their "standard" samurai budies have, seems strange.

    Another thing I noticed, more from a historical point this time, is that samurai are awfle common in this mod. As I understand things from this time period the samurai is, at this time, on the way out terms of numbers. Seems like they should be less numerous than they are in the mod. Normaly that would mean puting a hard cap on them and bing done with it, as that is the only option people have seen thus far. But saw something that gave me an idea. I'm not sure if it was this mod or S2TWR, but one of them plans to implament an AOR system. Well if they plan that then it logicaly can be done and that is how you can implament a realistic cap on samurai class units, but it would take a good deal of work. All it would mean is creating a samurai unit with a cap of so many for the various provences. Then as a faction expands they can, as one would expect, have greater accsess to this small segment of the population.

    On another note I think the differance between samurai and ashigaru could be a little more pronounced. As it is now a unit of ashi will hold its own but ultimatly lose against a samurai unit of the same weapon. What I have gleened from various sources when a unit of samurai engaged in open combat with ashigaru it was basicly a one sided afair. The gameplay balance would come in the form of lowering the unit numbers of the samurai units some what and increasing the cost to off set the increase in stats, or conversly lower the cost and stats of the ashigaru. This would properly set up the historic reality that the leaders faced back then: They could have lots of midling quality ashigaru or a hand full of highly trained, quite leathal, samurai.

  8. #8

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikales View Post
    If the mod team gives a go, I will try my hands on the siege attack things and a few other things. I may join the team, as an adjunct. Is this OK?
    I don't think you can do much about sieges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disaray View Post
    One thing that has always buged me is that yari samurai can't form a spear wall. I mean the ashigaru can and they are only part time warriors, I would think that the full time battlefield elete would be able to do that too. Also the ronin don't have any of the abilities that their "standard" samurai budies have, seems strange.

    Another thing I noticed, more from a historical point this time, is that samurai are awfle common in this mod. As I understand things from this time period the samurai is, at this time, on the way out terms of numbers. Seems like they should be less numerous than they are in the mod. Normaly that would mean puting a hard cap on them and bing done with it, as that is the only option people have seen thus far. But saw something that gave me an idea. I'm not sure if it was this mod or S2TWR, but one of them plans to implament an AOR system. Well if they plan that then it logicaly can be done and that is how you can implament a realistic cap on samurai class units, but it would take a good deal of work. All it would mean is creating a samurai unit with a cap of so many for the various provences. Then as a faction expands they can, as one would expect, have greater accsess to this small segment of the population.

    On another note I think the differance between samurai and ashigaru could be a little more pronounced. As it is now a unit of ashi will hold its own but ultimatly lose against a samurai unit of the same weapon. What I have gleened from various sources when a unit of samurai engaged in open combat with ashigaru it was basicly a one sided afair. The gameplay balance would come in the form of lowering the unit numbers of the samurai units some what and increasing the cost to off set the increase in stats, or conversly lower the cost and stats of the ashigaru. This would properly set up the historic reality that the leaders faced back then: They could have lots of midling quality ashigaru or a hand full of highly trained, quite leathal, samurai.
    I will look at the abilities of the ronin. Giving samurai the spear wall ability would make them even more powerfull. Given the fact that the AI does not use spearwall very well I rather stay away from that. I think the difference between samurai and ashigaru is pronounced. A unit of samurai will beat a ashigaru unit anytime.

    Yes, I found a way to do AOR units and we will introduce some in the next version. But trying to restrict the number of samurai that way creates a lot of gameplay problems. Currently you can only have 8 yari samurai for example. But if we allow one yari samurai per province in a AOR system you would have much more in the end. And you would have to build all recruitment buildings in all provinces.

  9. #9

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    So has anyone noticed that the new ikko ikki faction tend to dominate?, ive played three games and every time the ikko ikki grow pretty huge. i have the dlc installed has anyone else seen this?

  10. #10

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by freelancerX View Post
    So has anyone noticed that the new ikko ikki faction tend to dominate?, ive played three games and every time the ikko ikki grow pretty huge. i have the dlc installed has anyone else seen this?

    That's funny because I was about to complain about how "major" factions are being destroyed too quickly in TROM3. In my current Oda campaign, the Ikko Ikki were among the very first factions to be wiped out. (I also have the new DLC.) The Chokosabe, Shimazu, and Usuegi were also all gone within the first ten years of gameplay.

    I recently played a campaign with Radious' AI mod and that mod tried to give the majors a boost so they wouldn't be too easily eliminated. With exception of the Shimazu (who just can't seem to catch break in vanilla or mods), the major clans did survive the early game of that campaign. So it was a bit of disappointment to see so many major clans bite the dust so early in the game with TROM3.

  11. #11

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    ^also... the Shoni are gods among men.

    in almost EVERY campaign I've had lately they have conquered half of japan.

    as christians...

  12. #12

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    First of all you did a really great job: your mod is the one I prefer!!!

    The problem of the survival of great clan is still true: do you have any idea to allow these clans to survive???

    Since the ikko iki DLC I have always this clan dominate the center of the japan: not reallly historical... will you try to correct this?

    Another question: I try the horo removal and the better unit card link in the first page but after installation these two files seens not to work???

    Thanks for your work

  13. #13

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    The problem with the Ikko Ikki I think is their monks. they spread the religion like wildfire and cause alot of ikko rebellions as I don't think the AI handles religion particularly well... except the Ikko.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    It isn't even the use of monks as the Ikko Ikki. They have some kind of faction ability that spreads their faith via the borders of thier relm. At least that is how it seems to work. I was playing with them the other day when all the suden a province simply decided to join up with me. I didn't have any monk in there, or any other agent or army. In fact the province was still shrowed on the map. Then it hapend again in a provence along my north-eastern border under the same sercumstances. The only thing these provences had in common were being on my border and my not having done anything in them; I was saving the east for later exapantion after I pasified the west. It was quite handy realy, up to that point things weren't going too well and the extra income from two provences that I didn't have to spend any money aquireing was well recieved.

  15. #15

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Hattori tends to blob in 90% of the TROM games I've played. The Ikko update last update, Oda blobs southwards extremely fast if I leave them alone. Hattori is really funny though. I utterly decimated their doomstacks and extorted over 10k from them in peace deals. Everytime they're back to a 7+ province blob in about 5-10 turns.

    Basically, the AI just blobs way too fast in general. By turn 50 you have 2 or 3 main blobs and all the other factions became pretty irrelevant.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagda View Post
    Hattori tends to blob in 90% of the TROM games I've played. The Ikko update last update, Oda blobs southwards extremely fast if I leave them alone. Hattori is really funny though. I utterly decimated their doomstacks and extorted over 10k from them in peace deals. Everytime they're back to a 7+ province blob in about 5-10 turns.

    Basically, the AI just blobs way too fast in general. By turn 50 you have 2 or 3 main blobs and all the other factions became pretty irrelevant.
    i encountered the same, in 2 different campaigns after the ikko ikki dlc, hattori(mainly) and mori to rule them all! The fact remains, too much blobing, as mentioned, at the beggining and usually it leads to some boring campaigns between mega -blobs from early-mid game.

    Also i love the the 2 turns recruiment, since it seems to help a lot the AI and it makes more strategic, but imho, recruitment slots must increase asap cause otherwise it leads to a very passive game.

    Anyway thank you for your efforts guys, this mod is awesome and please go on with more unique ideas

    Walk softly and carry a big gun






  17. #17

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    I can probably influence the AI aggressiveness by manipulating some personality variables.

  18. #18

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarkis de Bodemloze View Post
    I can probably influence the AI aggressiveness by manipulating some personality variables.
    I have read in the shogun realism+ mod forum that they are testing such modificatin for agressivness

    For the ikko ikki problem maybe you could lower the conversion power of the ikko temple and the ikko monk?

    for the temple I find it in db/building_effect_junction_table

    for the monk I do not find but maybe we can increse its cost or delete the possibily of recruit it in a temple??

    Thanks

  19. #19

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    The aim of the mod is to randomize the survival rate and which factions dominate the game as much as possible. That's easier said then done because single observations are not enough and I can't run 100 games to see how each faction performes. Therefore I need feedback from as many people as possible to get a valid picture. There seems to be some consense about the new Ikko Ikki being too dominant. Indeed they have a good starting position with 2 provinces both with specialities. I won't change this but I will reduce their aggressiveness a bit by one notch. I wil also test what happens when I set every faction to a ower aggressiveness level to slow down the reckless AI expansion. However, keep in mind that slowing the AI may get the player a strong advantage in the middle and late game. We have to see how this works out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primogenitus View Post
    Very valid point on the extra building slot and composition of AI armies. Indeed you now face some interesting armies which are a lot of fun to battle against. I didn't know that the extra building slot was the main reason behind this so you just changed my mind on that one But is it possible to incorporate completely new buildings? With the extra slots I would love to have some more buildings to choose from. It's very interesting that you'll make happiness control more important in the next version. So far it's just too easy to keep the populace happy once you've got rid of the initial "resistance to invaders". In relation to that a new building could be along the lines of this (just an idea):

    Garrison Quarters (upgrade to the encampment):
    - Provides 2(?) Yari Ashigaru garrisons and 1(?) Yumi Ashigaru garrison
    - +1-2 repression in the province
    - Consumes 1 food (the extra permanent garrison would of course require extra food)

    I also can't wait to see how the new AOR will be implemented.

    But my point still stands on the extra trade routes. The issue is not with the amount of income from trade, which is really fine, but more with the number of trade lanes you're able to establish very early with only 2-3 ports. The aspect of the game where you choose your trade partners by sea with care, taking into account things like possible income and imported/exported ressources, is really almost gone. Now you encounter a new clan and request trade agreement immediately almost without considering what you get because you can very quickly get more trade routes than possible trade partners. There is no vying for your sea lanes anymore. Also the AI very rarely seem to get more than 3-4 trade agreements at any given time and I'm having more than double that. My suggestion would be to change the number of trade routes back and increase income just a tad to compensate.
    I won't add new building lines because then I have the too-many-buildings-with-not-enough-slots problem again. But I can add a extra garrison building with 2 garrison units and +1 repression to the encampment building line. Thanks for the idea.

    Trade: Land trade isn't limited, only sea trade is. I see no logical reason for that. Chosokabe has a serious disadvantage because of that since they can only have land trade with factions on their island (all trade has to go to the capital). So I am inclined to keep the changes to sea trade for the core mod. But I can release a submod where I revert these changes for people who like it different. Look into the soon to come official submod thread for it.

    If somebody has an idea about an AOR units please post. The unit should be somewhat historical and you have to specify the province where the unit should be available. Typical AOR units would be from minor samurai clans or temples that are not in the game.

  20. #20

    Default Re: TROM3 - Feedback and Suggestions

    Hello guys

    I have tested 2 modifications:

    First to limit the expansion of the ikko ikki clan I put to zero the "conversion_ikko_osmosis" of the temples and I put to zero the "agent_availability_quality_ikko_monk" with this modifications there no more diffusion of the ikko ikki faith and no more big expansion.

    But the problem still on because the ikko ikki succes in a big military expansion: so I am testing to increase the cost of its troops...

    Second point I use the Universal Ai mod in witch I have deleted all the files wich are in the TROM mod and it work very well: shimasu mori and all other big clan expand very well (as ikko ikki because its a great clan with the last patch)


    I put here the download link for these modified version of UAI

    enjoy

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