Shogun 2 Realism + (S2R+) | Update v3.0 - 25th October 2013

[Olin011]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olin011
Could someone tell me if the mod is compatible with the latest ROTS patch?

...of course it is.

Why would i release a mod update, after the latest CA patch that is not compatible?

I asked because the "loose formation" button is missing. I know this was also the issue with the DarthMod which needed the unit formations to be updated I believe. If you say you updated the mod to work with the ROTS patch then I don't know. Maybe I messed something up although I think I did everything right. I have uninstalled DM and then copied S2R+ pack file to my Shogun Data folder, also installed the other mods you recommended.

Besides the "loose formation" button missing everything seems to work fine. The mod is "refreshingly" different from the other ones I played. I only played few years of the campaign so I will hold with my comments until I reach the mid/late game.

[DaVinci]

I asked because the "loose formation" button is missing. I know this was also the issue with the DarthMod which needed the unit formations to be updated I believe. If you say you updated the mod to work with the ROTS patch then I don't know. Maybe I messed something up although I think I did everything right. I have uninstalled DM and then copied S2R+ pack file to my Shogun Data folder, also installed the other mods you recommended.

Besides the "loose formation" button missing everything seems to work fine. The mod is "refreshingly" different from the other ones I played. I only played few years of the campaign so I will hold with my comments until I reach the mid/late game.

You are right, i forgot that, loose formation is indeed missing since patch9.pack ... while i personally don't miss it, as it makes less sense anyway, ie. AI skirmishers (Bow Ashi) only waiste time with the formation-change time and then get even more losses because cannot fire and/or react and change at the same time ... also in my experience the loose formation doesn't help a lot if overall vs. arrow rain.

I'll think about that a bit, if i put loose formation back in for a next update or not (maybe one should see that rather as positive feature without loose formation?).

[Olin011]

I try not to use the loose formation as I have never seen AI actually using it so it's like getting an unfair advantage. So I actually don't miss it much. It was just my observation that the latest patch changed some things and I was wondering if anything else could be missing.

I've got one more question - if I buy sengoku jidai DLC do I need to start a new game to see the new units?

[DaVinci]

I try not to use the loose formation as I have never seen AI actually using it so it's like getting an unfair advantag. So I actually don't miss it much. ...

I believe i saw it with archers ... but that's anyways the right approach to not use player-only features ... i think i'll keep that button out.

I've got one more question - if I buy sengoku jidai DLC do I need to start a new game to see the new units?

I don't think so, but i recommend to start a new campaign, because these units have a relevant role for the balance, as well valid for Limited Edition (Hattori units) and the Ikko DLC. But i plan anyway an update, which changes some important recruitment things again, so ie. you can play on your current campaign to check out some more principles of the common S2R+ gameplay ... and just start anew with the update.

[Hister]

New streamlined unit guide will also be made so that players will have an easier time getting into the mod.

[Chih]

Been playing Shogun 2 Realism+ for a few days now on hard/battle realism, and after having tried all the other major Shogun 2 TW mods this mod is definitely the one I am enjoying the most.

S2R+ is just on a completely different level both campaign and battle-wise. It feels so much more authentic. I've tried two campaigns so far, and in both the expansion of the major factions has been rather realistic (first time in Shogun 2 I see Shimazu and Mori do well). One great battle I've had so far was when all of my 5 companies of ashigaru in the center of my line routed after a short melee with the enemy samurai, which enabled the AI to split my army in two and surround my remaining samurai. While in other battles I've managed to hold my ashigaru line just fine. Still, it's really great to have to be careful how to use the non-professional troops, which even if reliant on numbers and a good leader are an essential part of every army.

I've also had a lot of fun with a house rule to disband all ashigaru when I am not actively campaigning or when at peace (which makes sense anyway, due to the high upkeep of most ashigaru).

I also see some criticism on replenishment and the archers on page 7, which are two other parts I really like about this mod.

The replenishment rates forces the player to use samurai wisely and to make proper army compositions because ashigaru can just easily be mass recruited/merged. The best ashigaru I've found are those with high morale or recruited in provinces with morale bonuses, not the ones with the best melee stats or largest units (building an encampment in Ise was the best decision I made in my Oda campaign). Key in most battles is for the ashigaru to hold the enemy while the samurai chew any weak enemy units, which they can accomplish without many losses before proceding to assist the ashigaru. Sometimes the samurai can just wait in the back line for the enemy to tire before being commited to battle. Naturally there's situations when samurai are needed to absorb a charge, but in those situations one or two units of samurai with the ability to encourage tend to be more than enough.

Archers are simply great in S2R+ in so many aspects. In vanilla and other mods I really disliked defending sieges for instance, where half the attacking stack was composed out of various archer units. The archers would just stand outside the castle and shoot for half the battle, while the melees climbed over the walls and 9/10 times died, then one could just use a weakened unit to aggro all the archers, click to make it run back and forth behind castle walls and the archers would miss 95% of their remaining arrows. After which the archers would form a second much weaker wave and the battle is won.

In S2R+ it's just the weak yumi ashigaru who stay and fire for extended periods. All other bow armed units will climb the walls sooner rather than later, and as a result the ensuing melee is much harder to win, especially if outnumbered or if the enemy has more samurai. I'd say S2R+ has made sieges better and more interesting without giving insanely large armies to the AI.

Those 3 arrows that bow samurai have do matter. And any bow armed samurai can still cause significant losses to other samurai units and defeat any ashigaru. So the bow samurais are far from bad. Besides, due to all the various bow samurais with 25+ ammo field battles used to suck so bad. In S2R+ they're simply awesome.

Excellent work and thank you for an awesome mod! I have a feeling I will spend countless hours playing S2R+

[Hister]

Ah thanx for such a nice review! It helps encourage other mod seekers to try DV's mod which I agree is by far the best out there.

Minor nitpick: The mod is called S2R+ and not S2R - saying just so that some readers don't mix the two different mods up.

In other news: New changes are being made by DV who is a pumping versions like an automated machine. He is just incredible in this regard. Await new even more awesome version soon.

[Chih]

Minor nitpick: The mod is called S2R+ and not S2R - saying just so that some readers don't mix the two different mods up.

Fixed

[DaVinci]

Fixed

Smart player report, Chih, your former post, i like it.

If you have time and fun to playtest (betatesting) internal versions, please register on org:
totalwar.org ... S2R+ forum and leave there your post in the main S2R+ discussion thread, at best you use the same nick name. Afterwards i'll tell you how you can get access to the dev forum.

[dbzvl]

I am not sure if this normal or not. I recently auto resolved a siege battle that had about 60% chance of winning. I won the battle however I ended up losing 1000 out of 2000 men and the Uesugi lost only 90 out of 1200. Also, this happened in other battles but I thought it was just random. Now I see that it happens every time you auto resolve a 50/50 chance win/lose battle.

Ikko Ikki

2 Generals
3 Chugen Yari - Ikko Ikki
2 Chugen Yumi - Ikko Ikki
2 Wako Yumi
2 Ronin Yari
2 Ashigaru Tachi - Ikko Ikki
1 Shin Yama
2 Sohei Naganata
1 Sohei Daikyu

Uesugi

1 General
1 Samurai Yari
2 Sohei Yari
1 Ronin Daikyu
3 Ashigaru Yumi Han
1 Yama
1 Shin Tachi Shiro
2 Ashigaru Yumi Shiro

[DaVinci]

I am not sure if this normal or not. I recently auto resolved a siege battle that had about 60% chance of winning. I won the battle however I ended up losing 1000 out of 2000 men and the Uesugi lost only 90 out of 1200. Also, this happened in other battles but I thought it was just random. Now I see that it happens every time you auto resolve a 50/50 chance win/lose battle.

Ikko Ikki

2 Generals
3 Chugen Yari - Ikko Ikki
2 Chugen Yumi - Ikko Ikki
2 Wako Yumi
2 Ronin Yari
2 Ashigaru Tachi - Ikko Ikki
1 Shin Yama
2 Sohei Naganata
1 Sohei Daikyu

Uesugi

1 General
1 Samurai Yari
2 Sohei Yari
1 Ronin Daikyu
3 Ashigaru Yumi Han
1 Yama
1 Shin Tachi Shiro
2 Ashigaru Yumi Shiro

Well, look what i wrote about autoresolved battles here, thread 'Gameplay Hints', last section:
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumd...ism-%28S2R-%29

In other words, yes, autoresolve is bugged (btw., still more in vanilla than in S2R+).
If you wanna have "real" results, you must play the battle.

EDIT

Important, check out your battle difficulty in preferences.txt.
Set it on N (or medium), if it is on H or higher. That'll change these results significantly.

[erasmus777]

I've been enjoying your mod. However, I noticed that none of the other factions are at war, even though I'm 30 or so turns in. Is that a bug?

Also, I can recruit ronin without them counting against my recruitment limit. That allows me to raise armies quickly. Just want to make sure that how you intend it to work and that I'm not unbalancing thing.

FWIW, I also have Brig's music mod and the banners mod installed.

Thanks for sharing your hard work.

[firstslayer09]

Hi i downloaded this mod yesterday, and today when I play i noticed the first army to appear near my castle has 160 men in a single unit of light cav. also yari sam have 160 men. i thought they were suppose to be rare and really powerful. is all this right?

[DaVinci]

I've been enjoying your mod. However, I noticed that none of the other factions are at war, even though I'm 30 or so turns in. Is that a bug?

Also, I can recruit ronin without them counting against my recruitment limit. That allows me to raise armies quickly. Just want to make sure that how you intend it to work and that I'm not unbalancing thing.

FWIW, I also have Brig's music mod and the banners mod installed.

Thanks for sharing your hard work.

Sounds actually strange, the bold parts.

- No wars? Not usual in this mod, there should be war from the start in every corner where major factions are positioned, did you check already the records tab (under faction tab)?
Quite some regions should have exchanged the ownership within the first 5 years, while can be that v2.6 is a bit more calm compared to the post v2.6 versions (which are internal now, a semi-final public update will soon be out, in a week or two).
However, which difficulty chosen? All my mod descriptions are based on the given development/balancing settings (camp H/ battle M, long campaign, ultra unit size).

- Ronin not capped? You mean the cap does not work in your camp for Ronin?
All units are capped in this mod. It works for me and my internal playtesters for every single unit (this also for the AI).
That would mean your units file does not work properly, did you modify something there?

All in all, sounds to me like you have still other gameplay modparts installed in data, so certain things are messed up, else, have no idea what's wrong.
Edit: Brigs music and Democritos' banner mod cannot have an impact on gameplay files.

My recommendation:
- Make sure every other mod is not in data.
- At best remove all mods from data, also saved games, perhaps the whole Roaming S2 folder in appdata.
- Check last CA patches on Steam, perhaps verify also the game files.
- Start vanilla.
- Then, if all works with vanilla accordingly ...
- ... put in the S2R+.pack file, and other mods like Brigs and Demokrtos'.

[DaVinci]

Hi i downloaded this mod yesterday, and today when I play i noticed the first army to appear near my castle has 160 men in a single unit of light cav. also yari sam have 160 men. i thought they were suppose to be rare and really powerful. is all this right?

That's alright. These two Samurai unit types have 160 men, no other though.

[erasmus777]

- Ronin not capped? You mean the cap does not work in your camp for Ronin?
All units are capped in this mod. It works for me and my internal playtesters for every single unit (this also for the AI).
That would mean your units file does not work properly, did you modify something there?

The ronin are capped. However, they do not show recruitment times. You can recruit more than your castle's queue allows.

Normal units:



Recruiting ronin first:



In the latter case, all three units will arrive on the next turn even though the castle only has one recruitment slot.

Here's my data folder:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your mod is a movie pack, right?

[DaVinci]

After i posted my reply, i already got the thought that it is this what you show above

Yes, these Ronin have 0 turn training time, so they can be put into the "extended" slot (queue). No bug, just design.

This is currently under review though in the internal version, and as you also stumbled about it, and important, possibly the AI can't use that feature in the same wise as the human player, they will get 1 turn again in the next public release.

Thanks, erasmus, for reporting about it.

I think your installation is 100 % okay, yes it's movie format.

[erasmus777]

Thanks!

[DaVinci]

Thanks!

Thank you as well, i feel honored if a modder plays my mod.

If you want you are welcome to join the small team, and if you have time and fun for it, you can put in something of your graphics talent, ie. a differentiation of 'Chugen' and 'Ashigaru' both in battle mode (ie. Chugen relative less armour) and in camp mode (unit icons) would be great.

[Hister]

Oh do join us erasmus! Would be great to have you on board.