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Thread: Greatest Roman generals

  1. #1

    Default Greatest Roman generals

    A few months ago, Spartan JKM made a brilliant thread named 'In my final analysis, Alexander the Great was the greatest military commander'. In that thread, military commanders of all civilizations were rated and discussed. This, along with other 'greatest commanders' and 'X vs. Y' threads, gave me the idea to make a similar list of greatest Roman generals. I've decided to use Spartan's tiers to divide the generals into three groups - greatest, great, average.

    I'm going to use these commanders: if you feel that your favorite Roman commander is underrated, post him and I'll add him (or her :wink: ). The list is still incomplete, and it'll cost me some time to rank them.

    UPDATE
    I've ranked the generals. Any suggestions are welcome.

    Flavius Aetius
    Gnaeus Julius Agricola
    Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
    Marcus Antonius
    Lucius Domitius Aurelianus
    Flavius Belisarius
    Marcus Furius Camillus
    Gaius Julius Caesar
    Gaius Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus
    Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo
    Gaius Aurelius Valerius Diocletianus
    Nero Claudius Drusus
    Tiberius Claudius Nero Germanicus
    Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctator
    Titus Quinctius Flamininus
    Flavius Claudius Julianus
    Gaius Marius
    Lucius Licinius Lucullus
    Marcus Claudius Marcellus
    Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus
    Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus
    Caius Julius Verus Maximinus Thrax
    Narses
    Marcus Atilius Regulus
    Publius Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus Africanus
    Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus
    Publius Cornelius Scipio
    Quintus Sertorius
    Flavius Stilicho
    Gaius Suetonius Paulinus
    Lucius Septimius Severus
    Lucius Cornelius Sulla
    Tiberius Claudius Nero
    Titus Flavius Vespasianus
    Marcus Ulpius Traianus
    Titus Flavius Vespasianus

    TIER 1

    Gaius Julius Caesar (100-44 BC)
    In a century of giants, Caesar was the greatest. With political skills he rose to the office of consul, and as proconsul he conquered Gaul in a swift military campaign. During the civil war, he fought against the odds most of the time.

    Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus (236-183 BC)
    Saved Rome in her darkest days by defeating Hannibal - one of the greatest commanders ever - at Zama. Despite his achievements in the Second Punic War, he was unable to profit from his military talent and Cato's accusations soon forced him into exile.

    Flavius Belisarius (505-565 AD)
    Actually not a Roman but a Byzantine general. The only one who conquered Rome and Carthage: thanks to his skills the Byzantines restored their power in Italy for a few centuries.

    Marcus Ulpius Traianus (53-117 AD)
    As adopted son of Nerva, he became emperor after Nerva's death in 98. While most emperors appointed skilled proconsuls or family members to lead the legions in person, Traianus led his men in person against the Dacians and Parthians.

    Quintus Sertorius (123-72 BC)
    Often underrated, Sertorius managed to survive in Spain for nine years, defeating Pompeius Magnus and winning the hearts and minds of the locals with his skills as statesman and diplomat. The fact that he defeated Pompeius and was nicknamed 'the new Hannibal' says enough.

    Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (106-48 BC)
    As Caesar's enemy in the Civil War, he was defeated several times. Some people see him as a mediocre commander, but we shouldn't forget his military campaigns in Spain and against the pirates, and especially his campaign against Pontos and Armenia.

    Gaius Marius (157-86 BC)
    Despite the fact that he was a novus homo, Marius managed to save the Roman presence in Gaul by defeating the German invaders. His military reforms saved and brought down the Republic.

    Tiberius Claudius Nero Germanicus (15 BC - 19 AD)
    A Roman Alexander. Restored Roman authority in Germanica together with Tiberius after the disaster at Teutoburger Wald. Conquered Cappadocia and Commagena (in Asia Minor) in the few years before his death.

    TIER 2
    Publius Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus Africanus
    Marcus Claudius Marcellus
    Lucius Cornelius Sulla
    Gaius Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus
    Titus Flavius Vespasianus
    Marcus Antonius
    Lucius Domitius Aurelianus
    Flavius Aetius
    Marcus Furius Camillus
    Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo
    Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctator
    Narses
    Manius Curius Dentatus
    Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus

    TIER 3
    Gaius Aurelius Valerius Diocletianus
    Flavius Claudius Julianus
    Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
    Tiberius Claudius Nero
    Gaius Suetonius Paulinus
    Quintus Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus
    Gnaeus Julius Agricola
    Manius Curius Dentatus
    Gaius Julius Verus Maximinus Thrax
    Flavius Stilicho
    Nero Claudius Drusus
    Lucius Septimius Severus
    Lucius Licinius Lucullus
    Titus Quinctius Flamininus
    Titus Flavius Vespasianus
    Marcus Atilius Regulus
    Quintus Caecilius Metellus Numidicus
    Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus
    Gaius Claudius Nero
    Gaius Fabricius Luscinus
    Publius Cornelius Scipio
    Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius
    Lucius Papirius Cursor

    NOTE: I'm a Dutchman and my English isn't perfect, but I hope it's readable.
    Last edited by Marcus Scaurus; March 06, 2006 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Generals added
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  2. #2
    Drunken's Avatar Semisalis
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    Although I have no favourite,

    Cnaeus Julius Agricola (c. 39-93AD)
    Agricola's name is sometimes spelled Gnaeus rather than Cnaeus

    Cnaeus Julius Agricola was a Roman general and governor of the province of Britannia from 78-84AD. He is credited with overseeing the final conquest of Britain.

    In a series of annual military campaigns Agricola put down revolts in north Wales, subdued the Brigantes tribe in the north, extended Roman control over the Scottish lowlands, where he established a string of forts between the Forth and the Clyde, sent troops into Galloway, and made inroads into the eastern Highlands. During the latter campaign his vessels were the first to circumnavigate the islands.

    In 83 or 84AD Agricola met the Caledonian war leader Calgacus in a major battle at Mons Graupius. The Caledonians attempted to attack the Roman line from the rear but were routed by Agricola's reserve cavalry. According to Roman reports Calgacus' men suffered 10,000 dead compared to but 360 Romans casualties. The actual site of Mons Graupius is not known.

    Shortly after this last triumph, Agricola was recalled to Rome by Domitian, perhaps because of jealousy over Agricola's successes and his growing reputation. He never returned to Britain, but was sent to quell disturbances on the Danube frontier.

    Agricola's life and exploits were later made famous in the biography written by his son-in-law Tacitus.
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  3. #3

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    Flavius Claudius Iulianus was a great general also
    Constantinus wasnt a true general
    Flavius Belisarius was also a great military genius

  4. #4
    Holger Danske's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Ehm Gaius Julius Caesar anyone?? As great or greater than Alexander the Great!

  5. #5
    Drunken's Avatar Semisalis
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    Caesar is already on the list
    "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings"

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar Germanico
    Constantinus wasnt a true general
    Explain.

    Great emperors, should we add them? I've decided not to add men like Caesar Augustus and Claudius. In their reign, many kingdoms and tribes were defeated and subdued, but they rarely led the army in person: Augustus wasn't a general and he wisely gave Agrippa, Germanicus and Tiberius the command over the legions. Claudius never served in the army, and generals like Aulus Plautus and Vespasian campaigned to bring the emperor glory.
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    TRSjarmen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Could Belisarus and Narses be considered?

  8. #8

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    if u know costantinust story very well u would know that he rarely fought with his armies...marcus aurelius or aureliaunus were great general also..costantinus usally marched with his armies but never did tactical choices or anything

  9. #9
    PyrrhusIV's Avatar Primicerius
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    Germanicus should also be considered, he was a very good general. How about Quintus Sertorius? Brilliant, if he hadnt been assasinated by his men, Pompey could of easily lost.

    I made this topic a while back, i think you may enjoy it Baron:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29893

  10. #10

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    ah and lucius cornelius scipio asiatic (scipio africanus brother) was also a good general..Titus Labienus the commander of the legio X of julius caesar was also an ok general

    oh and also the roman general at tigranocerta lucanus

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by PyrrhusIV
    Germanicus should also be considered, he was a very good general. How about Quintus Sertorius? Brilliant, if he hadnt been assasinated by his men, Pompey could of easily lost.
    Sertorius and Pompeius actually fought against each other. Pompeius, a talented but unexperienced captain of Sulla, was sent by the Senate to deal with Rome's victorious rebel. At Sagantum, the confident Pompeius was utterly defeated by Sertorius. Besides his talents as general, Sertorius was also a brilliant statesman and politician.
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    PyrrhusIV's Avatar Primicerius
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    lucius cornelius scipio asiatic (scipio africanus brother) was also a good general
    How is he great?

    Sertorius and Pompeius actually fought against each other. Pompeius, a talented but unexperienced captain of Sulla, was sent by the Senate to deal with Rome's victorious rebel. At Sagantum, the confident Pompeius was utterly defeated by Sertorius. Besides his talents as general, Sertorius was also a brilliant statesman and politician.
    I know, I was just saying he should be on the list, I see you know plenty about him as well.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by PyrrhusIV
    How is he great? (on Scipio Asiaticus)
    L. Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus earned his agnomen Asiaticus by defeating Antiochus the Great at Magnesia in 189 BC. Lucius and Publius (Africanus) were both unable to use their military successes and they didn't had any important successes after Zama and Magnesia.

    Quote Originally Posted by PyrrhusIV
    I know, I was just saying he should be on the list, I see you know plenty about him as well. (on Sertorius)
    I added him to TIER 1. Sertorius truly deserves a place above Pompeius, in my opinion.
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  14. #14
    therussian's Avatar Use your imagination
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    Well, I'm going to add Heraclius to the list. I'll also add Caius Claudius Nero, and (if Byzantine Generals can be considered Roman) Nicophoros Phocas, the "White Death of the Saracens"

    Heraclius: Tier 2
    Nero: Tier 2
    Phocas: Tier 1

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    PyrrhusIV's Avatar Primicerius
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    L. Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus earned his agnomen Asiaticus by defeating Antiochus the Great at Magnesia in 189 BC. Lucius and Publius (Africanus) were both unable to use their military successes and they didn't had any important successes after Zama and Magnesia.
    I thought I read from T. Ayrault Dodge that neither of the Scipio's commanded at Magnesia, but your probably right.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by therussian
    Well, I'm going to add Heraclius to the list. I'll also add Caius Claudius Nero, and (if Byzantine Generals can be considered Roman) Nicophoros Phocas, the "White Death of the Saracens"

    Heraclius: Tier 2
    Nero: Tier 2
    Phocas: Tier 1
    Sorry, but this is a Roman instead of a Byzantine list. I've decided to add both Narses and Belisarius because they campaigned in the regions were Rome ruled until the 5th century. Heraclius was a great man, a very capable commander and administrator, but he just wasn't Roman. Same goes for Phocas: a man who ruled over Rome and lived in the 7th century, but in my opinion he was more Byzantine than Roman.

    Is Gaius Claudius Nero the guy who fought in the Hannibalic War? What did he achieve as commander besides defeating the Carthiginian reinforcements?
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    therussian's Avatar Use your imagination
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron
    Sorry, but this is a Roman instead of a Byzantine list. I've decided to add both Narses and Belisarius because they campaigned in the regions were Rome ruled until the 5th century. Heraclius was a great man, a very capable commander and administrator, but he just wasn't Roman. Same goes for Phocas: a man who ruled over Rome and lived in the 7th century, but in my opinion he was more Byzantine than Roman.

    Is Gaius Claudius Nero the guy who fought in the Hannibalic War? What did he achieve as commander besides defeating the Carthiginian reinforcements?
    Alright, I got it.

    Anyway, as for Nero, he might not have done much, but what he did saved Rome.

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    PyrrhusIV's Avatar Primicerius
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    Caius Claudius Nero

    Taken from Great Roman Generals of the Second Punic War Thread

    Possibly one of the most Underestimated men in the Whole war between Rome and Carthage. Yet the role he played was vital to the survival of Roma. Nero was not a Fabius, yet he was not a Marcellus. After Publius Cornelius Scipio was killed in Spain, Nero took over not that long afterwards. Nero knew how to gain alliances and with his Spanish allies managed to defeat Hasdrubal Barca and push him out of the small Roman occupied area of Spain. After this great achievement, Nero managed to push deeply into spain and for awhile it looked as if Carthaginian Spain would fall. Nero pushed as Far as Baetis and was in sight of Carthago Nova when he was replaced by the young Scipio, Publius Cornelius Scipio "The Younger". While Scipio was arriving in Spain, and Nero was already called home, Hasdrubal did manage to take back most of Spain.

    Nero was very unpopular with the people and the senate though. So even though his success's were great, they were downplayed and generally tossed aside. Nero would have a time to redeem himself though.

    Scipio conducted his campaign in Spain with the mind of a brilliant general, not a great one. After Scipio defeated Hasdrubal Barca in Southern Spain, he allowed Hasdrubal to escape. This was a mistake which made him unpopular in Rome and he could have caught Hasdrubal too.

    Hasdrubal re-formed his forces and moved into Italy. At this time in the war Rome was as afraid of Hasdrubal as it was Hannibal. This was Scipio's mistake. He had allowed Hadrubal to re-form and march into italy full of African, Spanish, and Gallic forces. These were the men Hannibal had used to defeat the Romans and truly, were the best of the Carthaginian Army.

    If Hasdrubal linked up with Hannibal, then the future was bleak for Rome. Hannibal would have some 70,000-80,000 men under his command. 50,000 of which would be the Heavy Spanish and African infantry. Nero would gain his glory here. Nero would do an astounding 250 mile march in 7 days, a grand feat. The soldiers would march all day and night, the ones that were exhausted and fell asleep were carried in wagons. Once he Arrived in Camp, he told his men they would fight the next day.

    Nero was in overall command at the Battle of Metaurus. It is because he marched so far so fast that the Romans defeated and killed Hasdrubal Barca. After the battle was over, Nero, the Hero of Rome at the time, Marched back to his consular Camp before Hannibal with his chosen 7,000. He had Marched over 500 miles, won the victory of the year, and destroyed the chances for a carthaginian Victory in Italy ; all within 2 weeks. Hannibal didnt even know.

  19. #19
    therussian's Avatar Use your imagination
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    ^ Exactly. Nero only fought in one battle, but in that battle, the fate of Rome was decided. He was truly a saviour of Rome.

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    It's good to see Sertorius is up there in the first tier.

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