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Thread: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

  1. #21
    Revelo's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by acci_dent View Post
    The heir will always be assigned to the new ruler's eldest son, if the son is old enough.

    I like the disinherited trait but when I'm changing the heir from somebody who never deserved it in the first place I use the command:
    Code:
    give_trait "Character" Exheir 0
    in the console to remove their new Disinherited trait.
    The Disinherited trait gets on my nerves. Maybe if you were changing it from one son of the ruler to the next maybe, but not between families, you think you could tell the game to distinguish between Royal Families and other noble houses.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    Hm, not sure if this is feasible.
    Also I don't know if heir or king can be linked with another trait. Of course this would be great, though this should mean that the kingly heirlooms should be linked with "House of Telcontar", too.
    I'm very confident it's possible. The king and heir traits are only traits after all, triggered by someone becoming king or heir.

    I've started a new project: ethnic traits for all human factions. I will only post them in detail if there's any interest, because I noticed they're a real pain to do if you want to elaborate on them. Every faction should several ethnic traits, and a varying number of noble houses, which are cumulative with ethnic traits.
    Unfortunately I don't know enough about elves or dwarves to do anything similar.

    RK/Adunabar:

    Royal Dunedain
    This man is a descendant of the kings of old. Many generations of his forefathers have lived in hiding in the wilderness of Arnor, constantly fighting evil influences that threatened the world of men, a fact that few even know about. Only after their chieftain Aragorn, later to be known as Elessar Telcontar, stepped forward to seize the throne of Gondor and Arnor, did they reveal themselves to the world. Their long exile had left a mark on them, however, and even to this day they are few in numbers, and have remained a grim and secluded people. But they are still the greatest of all living men, and should be welcomed and treated with the respect they deserve if they were to offer their help.
    +1 influence, +50% bribe resistance, +1 hit point, +1 morale

    Dunedain
    This is a descendant of the men of Numenor, the greatest of all realms of men, past or present. When Numenor was swallowed by the sea for defying the Valar, some of its people escaped to Middle-Earth, and many more still lived in the colonies that were to become the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor. For countless years, the dunedain have defended their lands and fellow men against all sorts of evil, and even to today does the ruling class of Gondor retain some traits of their ancestors, the most commonly known being their extended life span.
    +50% bribe resistance, +1 hit point

    Gondorian
    This man is a citizen of Gondor, the southermost of all realms that have never bowed before evil, and, as he would say, the light of civilization, and of all which is good in the world of men. The people of Gondor have faced countless hardships and threats through the years, and their constant struggle for freedom and survival have turned them into hardy men who are unlikely to give in to adversity. Although it is uncommon for an ordinary man like him to be appointed to a position of importance instead of a dunedain, he will carry out his tasks to the best of his ability. His forefathers have done so for thousands of years, and he has every intention to follow in their footsteps!
    +25% bribe resistance, -1 unrest

    Arnorian
    Distant relatives of the Dunlendings, the people of Arnor were quick to get used to their dunedaic overlords, and were just as quick to forget them after the northern kingdom's destruction. Their former lords, now exilees hiding in their own lands, continued to protect them from the shadows to the best of their abilities. This, and the fact that the efforts of evil were usually centered on the southern kingdom of Gondor, turned the population of Arnor into a generally peaceful, kind and unsophisticated people minding their own business and ahowing little interest in the affairs that were of no concern to them. But now that war is approaching once more, and that the Reunited Kingdom is threatened from all sides, the time may well have come for the people of Arnor to brace themselves and face the horrors which they were once protected from.
    +1 farming output, -1 unrest

    House of Telcontar
    +1 influence, +1 hitpoint

    House of Galador (RK only)
    -20% discount on animal unit recruitment cost, +5% trade income

    House of Hurin (RK only)
    +1 management, +1 farming output

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Harad

    Haradrian
    +10% trade income, -20% agent recruitment cost

    Black Numenorean
    The infamous black numenoreans of Umbar are a heritage of the darkest chapter in the history of mankind. After the fall of Numenor, many colonies of the once-powerful nation still remained in Middle-Earth, among them the city of Umbar. But it's inhabitants were quick to sell their hearts and minds to the shadow. They became but another of the many factions fighting for power in Harad. They dabbled in the forbidden arts and became (more or less) faithful servants of the Black Tower. All attempts of their dunedaic cousins to reconcile the two bloodlines amounted to nothing, the most iconic example being the marriage of king of Gondor and the southron noblewoman Beruthiel, which held no longer than a couple of years. Today, the black numenoreans' power has all but vanished. Following the surrender of Umbar to king Elessar of the Reunited Kingdom, they have lost almost all their political weight. Their numbers are dwindling, and their sorcery is failing them. Their fate lies now in the hands of their former rivals, the most notable among them being the house of the Black Serpent. But most of their dignitaries see the black numenoreans as a relic of the past. Whether or not they are right remains to be seen.
    +2 public security, +1 personal security, -20% agent recruitment cost, +1 hit point, -2 fertility, +5% cultic conversion

    Man of Far-Harad
    -1 influence, +1 hit point, +1 morale

    House of the Black Serpent
    +1 public security, +1 law

    ----------------------------------------

    Rohan

    Man of Rohan (can't think of the singular for rohirrim, and can't think of any other ethny either)
    +1 command with cavalry, +10% movement

    House of Eorl
    -10% unit recruitment cost, -1 unrest

    ----------------------------------------

    Dunland

    Hillman
    +1 farming output, +1 hit point

    Mountain-Man
    +1 command when ambushing, +1 experience to bodyguards

    Plainsman
    +5% trade income, -10% unit recruitment cost

    House of Wulf
    +5% tax income, +1 law

    --------------------------------------

    Rhun

    Wainrider
    +10% movement, +1 command when attacking

    Axeman
    +1 law, +1 morale

    Khandian
    +1 command with cavalry, +10% movement

    -----------------------------------------

    Dale

    Man of Dale
    +10% trade income, +1 command when defending

    Man of Rhovanion
    +1 farming output, +1 command when ambushing

    House of Bard
    +1 law, +1 morale
    Last edited by The Sloth; June 06, 2011 at 02:35 PM.

  3. #23
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Uh, ok didn't know the AI was capable to act logically.

    Still, if the eldest son is too young, someone else will become heir and it'd be nice if this problem would be solved without "cheating". After all, the heir was not disinherited because he was deemed "not appropriate" (or however the description is) but because there is someone who has a real claim.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  4. #24
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sloth View Post
    I'm very confident it's possible. The king and heir traits are only traits after all, triggered by someone becoming king or heir.
    Had a look into the traits.txt for the first time now, and I guess you're right.

    I've started a new project: ethnic traits for all human factions. I will only post them in detail if there's any interest, because I noticed they're a real pain to do if you want to elaborate on them. Every faction should several ethnic traits, and a varying number of noble houses, which are cumulative with ethnic traits.
    Unfortunately I don't know enough about elves or dwarves to do anything similar.
    I do.
    Will think about some.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  5. #25
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Basically there can’t be houses amongst the Elves, because pretty much anyone who belonged to a house has died or passed into the West. Gil-galad died without heirs, the House of Feanor is completely extinct. Also the king’s of Lórien have passed with Amroth. Galadriel is the only remaining child of Finarfin, thus the sons of Elrond could be accounted to these people. But the only house that is ‘alive’ is the House of Oropher (Thranduil’s father).

    I think, Elves should have several ethnic traits, due to their somewhat complicated ethnic history and long life. They are either Sindar or Nandor, which describes to which ‘tribe’ they belong.
    If they are Sindar they can also be ‘Doriathrim’ (meaning they lived in Doriath during the First Age) and Galadhrim (meaning they lived in Lórien in the SA and TA) at the same time.
    If they are Nandor (which won’t be a trait) they can only have one ethnical trait, representing where they lived during SA and TA.


    Basic ethnical traits

    Galadhrim (what's the singular anyway???????)
    +1 command, +2 line of sight

    Falasrim
    +5% trade income, +5% tax income, +1 farming output

    Sylvan
    +1 command, +5% trade income, +10% movement


    Expanded ethnical traits

    House of Oropher
    +1 command, +1 management, +2 influence

    Sinda
    +2 command, +1 influence

    Doriathrim (requires Sinda)
    This man was born ages ago and has seen the wonders of King Thingol’s marvelous halls at Menegroth.
    +1 management, +1 influence

    Student of Daeron (builts up on Doriathrim)
    This man has listened to Daeron’s teaching, the most famous loremaster of the Sindar people.
    +3 management, +3 influence

    Gondolindrim (requires Sinda)
    The city of Gondolin was the jewel amongst all the realms in exile founded by the Noldor, a glimpse of the beautiful Tirion, home of the Noldor in Valinor.
    +2 management, +2 influence, +5% trade income

    Noldorin Blood (requires Sinda)
    This Elf has descendants amongst the Noldor, inheriting somewhat of their crafting skills and hot blood.
    +1 command, +1 influence, +10% to trade income

    (perhaps this should give a malus on influence; If not of the House of Finarfin, the Noldor were not welcomed by Sindar and Nandor)


    Clings on the past (requires Galadhrim)
    This man has long lived in the blessed realm of Lórien which was protected from the course of time by Nelya, the Ring of Air. Now the power of the Rings is no more, the Lady Galadriel has passed into the West and many of the Galadhrim went with her. In a world that is growing cold and grey, this man now learns what it means to be a dwindling people and clings on memories.
    -2 management, -2 influence

    Uppish (requires Galadhrim)
    “I ask thee, why claimeth some Lord from far away kingship over our people? We had Kings of our own for centuries. He should take care of his own affairs!”
    +1 influence, +3 unrest

    (That’s the way how Oropher and Amdír acted during the Last Alliance. They refused to bow to Gil-galad and both perished in a hot headed attack. It should grant some popularity amongst their own people, but also a negative effect.)


    DWARVES

    Dwarf of the Ered Engrin
    +1 command, +2 hitpoints

    Dwarf of Erebor
    +2 law, +10% trade income

    Dwarf of Khazad-dûm
    +1 management, +2 influence


    Of the Firebeards
    Amongst the Firebeards of Nogrod were the greatest smiths of all Dwarves, Telchar being the most renowned
    +10% trade income

    Of the Broadbeams
    The steadfast Dwarves of Belegost participated in many battles of the First Age
    +1 morale, +1 hitpoint
    Last edited by Thangaror; May 31, 2011 at 04:54 PM.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Not bad. Normally, I'd be opposed to such huge bonuses, but then again, elves wouldn't be elves if they weren't perfect to he point of going on your nerves... Every elf without maxed out stats would probably be considered a loser.
    I didn't know Belegost and Nogrod still existed in our time frame. Where are they even located?

    Also, I'm going to slowly update my ethnic traits above with some descriptions, after all. I noticed that many of them just don't make sense if I don't explain what I was thinking when I came up with them.

  7. #27
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    I agree the bonuses are somewhat too powerful. Basically these are but the traits and the general bonuses. For example, the Galadhrim were probably the most battle-hardened having a quite bad neighborhood, while the Falasrim (the Elves of Lindon) have had peace since 1975 TA when the Witch-king was overthrown.
    The other traits are ok as they are and should be quite rare. Also I don't know if they are feasible at all. Almost all Noldor and most Sindar had already left ME in the Third Age! Indeed most Noldor left during the Dark Ages, after the bloody war of the Last Alliance, respectively.
    And if a family member is indeed that old that he has lived in Gondolin during the First Age, he'll die after some turns. His children won't have seen those marvellous places then and the trait will be lost for ever.
    Even the Sinda trait would be quite rare. Thranduil was a Sinda, that's pretty sure. But what about Legolas? Was he Sinda or only Half-Sinda?

    Screw it, I thought I had a nice map somewhere, showing and overlay of Eriador and Beleriand.
    Anyway Belegost lay somewhat north, Nogrod somewhat to the south of the Dolmed, right above the springs of River Ascar (Fonstad puts Belegost for some reason far to the south at the wells of Adurant. I'm still wondering why). The Sea broke in somewhat south of Ascar, Nogrod was probably drowned completely but Belegost was perhaps only ruined by the heavy quakes. Also you've to keep in mind that Beleriand didn't sink in one day and one night like Númenor did. It was a long drowning lasting about 50 years and everyone was able to flee from the sea. The Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost had to leave their homes and most of them joined the Longbeards in Khazad-dûm.

    Someone speaks french? http://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/site3...p?lng=en&pg=41
    At least it provides some english quotes from the UT and other books.


    A really FUNNY anc for Dwarves and Dale came into my mind:

    Spear of King Bladorthin
    This spear, forged thirty times, has been made centuries ago for the mysterious king Bladorthin, who never passed by to pick up his order.
    +1 morale
    Last edited by Thangaror; May 31, 2011 at 06:15 PM.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  8. #28
    Revelo's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sloth View Post
    I didn't know Belegost and Nogrod still existed in our time frame. Where are they even located?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    Screw it, I thought I had a nice map somewhere, showing and overlay of Eriador and Beleriand.
    Anyway Belegost lay somewhat north, Nogrod somewhat to the south of the Dolmed, right above the springs of River Ascar (Fonstad puts Belegost for some reason far to the south at the wells of Adurant. I'm still wondering why). The Sea broke in somewhat south of Ascar, Nogrod was probably drowned completely but Belegost was perhaps only ruined by the heavy quakes. Also you've to keep in mind that Beleriand didn't sink in one day and one night like Númenor did. It was a long drowning lasting about 50 years and everyone was able to flee from the sea. The Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost had to leave their homes and most of them joined the Longbeards in Khazad-dûm.
    Belegost I believe was located in the Ered Luin and just north of what became the Gulf of Lune, so it was where Beleriand and current Middle-earth were seperated. Nogord was further west and was drowed in the War of Wrath, however Belegost would have been ruined at least due to it's location. While it is true that refugees from those two Dwarven Mansions fled to Khazad-dûm and further boosted it's prosperity, there is some evidence to suggest that some Dwarves remained to rebuild Belegost into the Second Age, although it would have been much reduced in population and power. This evidences comes from some implications, most notably an early map included in The Treason of Isengard which places it in the Ered Luin. Another implication comes from the fact that there were 7 Rings of Power given to the dwarves, comprable to the 7 Dwarven clans, which does suggest that some may have continued to dwell there.

    And while it's only canon in regards to the mod, check out my political map I drew up to speculate on what teritory each faction could be holding when DoM is released, there is a white circle west by Lindon, which is where Belegost was supposedly located. (Map used is found here: http://www.theonering.com/images2-45...MiddleearthMap) and Belegost is shown just north of the Grey Havens. Personally I would be surprised if it wasn't included in FATW since it appears that the Dwarves don't exactly have much territory at the start. Hope this might clear things up.
    Last edited by Revelo; June 01, 2011 at 10:03 AM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Thangaror's french website theorizes that Mount Dolmed still exists the Ered Lhuin. Belegost being situated to the North would mean that the city wasn't affected by the rising sea. They say the city might have been mostly abandoned because it had lost it's former strategic value, both Belegost and Nogrod having been important trading partners of areas that no longer existed after the submerging of Beleriand.
    Nogrod was located to the south of the mountain, which is where we now have... the golf of Lhun. They say Tolkien himself seemingly never had any clear spot in mind for either city, though.

  10. #30
    The_Valiant's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    I like some of the ethnic traits. I think many of them will have to be read over and edited before they come into consideration. The elven traits would be more appropriate for a Second Age setting though. In my opinion, Elven traits should be dominating. I think they should be maxed out (or nearly so) in every category because they are... well, elves. However, the traits referring to the cities of Beleriand, such as Gondolin, wouldn't fit. Most of those elves perished or fled to Valinor.

    Better ones would be this:

    Of Sindar descent: This elf's ancestors never lived in Valinor, but stayed in the fair lands of Middle-earth since the rise of the moon. +1 Command, +10% farming output, +1 morale, +2 hit points

    Of Noldor descent: This elf has ancestors who once lived in Valinor, seeing the light of the Trees and the grace of the Valar. (Possibly more history of the Noldor, I don't want to get into it now). As such, he inherited their skill at the crafting of metals and combat.
    +1 command, -10% building costs, +4 hit points (based on superior armor and being an elf), +1 morale
    One's back is vulnerable, unless one has a brother.
    - The Saga of Grettir the Strong

  11. #31
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Valiant View Post
    I lHowever, the traits referring to the cities of Beleriand, such as Gondolin, wouldn't fit. Most of those elves perished or fled to Valinor.

    Better ones would be this:

    Of Sindar descent: This elf's ancestors never lived in Valinor, but stayed in the fair lands of Middle-earth since the rise of the moon. +1 Command, +10% farming output, +1 morale, +2 hit points

    Of Noldor descent: This elf has ancestors who once lived in Valinor, seeing the light of the Trees and the grace of the Valar. (Possibly more history of the Noldor, I don't want to get into it now). As such, he inherited their skill at the crafting of metals and combat.
    +1 command, -10% building costs, +4 hit points (based on superior armor and being an elf), +1 morale
    Nah, I think you didn't really get what I intend.

    First of all these traits are supposed to be pretty rare and are also merely the expanded traits, not the basic ones, which are based on the region they are living in the Fourth Age.
    There were quite some Elves of Sindar origin who joined the Nandor. Actually the whole nobility of the Nandor was formed by Sindar. Most of these were from Doriath, such as Amdír/Malgalad or Oropher and Thranduil. Celeborn was a close relative of Elu Thingol (well, depending on the source) and thus has seen Menegroth, too. I guess most Sindar of Gondolin stayed with Gil-galad or went to Eregion, but still it is possible that some after the destruction of Ost-in-Edhil went with Galadriel to Lórien.
    Thus a Sinda who also has lived in Gondolin would be rarer than a Sinda who has lived in Menegroth.

    Using the 'race' as basis for the se traits is not really better solution. A Woodelf, of Nandor origin, would never ever have an ancestor amongst the Noldor, for those people didn't really mix. So, only Sindar can have Noldor ancestors.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  12. #32
    The_Valiant's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    Using the 'race' as basis for the se traits is not really better solution. A Woodelf, of Nandor origin, would never ever have an ancestor amongst the Noldor, for those people didn't really mix. So, only Sindar can have Noldor ancestors.
    I understand. It's just that I really doubt an elf who escaped Gondolin in the First Age would stay in middle earth till the Fourth. That's many battles and many millennia of sorrow and loss. They will eventually die or move onto Valinor.
    One's back is vulnerable, unless one has a brother.
    - The Saga of Grettir the Strong

  13. #33

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Sadly, it looks like all of my Tolkien books fell victim to my mother's attempt to tidy up the storage room... Guess my posts will have to remain a little speculative.

    I updated my post further above with some more ethnic traits. Also, here is some more random stuff:

    Wulf's Crown (Dunland, could replace Wulf's Helm)
    This is the crown that Wulf, Great Chieftain of Dunland wore during his coronation in Edoras, in the year 2758TA, while king Helm of Rohan, defeated, starved to death in the fortress of Helm's Deep. Although neither of ancient origin, nor of great material value, this crown is a symbol of Dunlands victory over Rohan, a promise to Wulf's people that they will once more feast in the golden hall and call ''home'' the lands that are rightfully theirs.
    +2 influence, +2 morale

    Black Helm (Rhun)
    The Black Helm is said to have been a gift of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named the Dark Lord to a mighty chieftain of Rhun, hoping that it would enable him to unite the clans of the Easterlings and win their blades for his wars. The helmet itself is made of a strange black metall that shows no sign of use even after the many battles it has gone through. It covers the entire head, with an angry grimace as a face and short iron spikes as hair, a design that has been copied by many warbands, most notably the Eastern Darkhelms. It's sight causes an eerie feeling and downright terror in the hearts of lesser men, an attribute that has always been put to good use in the endless tribal squabbles. As it is customary with evil objects, the helm is also cursed: it is said that the wearers thoughts and intentions are revealed to the Dark Lord, but said lord has vanished many years ago. It is also said that the helm incites the wearer to cruel and bloody deeds. But the chieftains of Rhun have never been the friendliest of people, and their underlings have generally failed to notice any sizeable difference in their behaviour.
    +2 law, +2 hitpoints

    Axe of Arol (Rhun, a replacement for the Axe of Uldor. not ideal, I know, but the present one really needs to disappear)
    This axe is said to have been swung by Arol, a famous champion and axe-master of Rhun, and subjects of many rumors and hero-tales. The most famous story about him tells of how he used this axe to slay a powerful wizard clad in blue many, many years ago. Writing being rather uncommon in Rhun, the deeds of Arol vary greatly from place to place. Noone can even tell if Arol ever existed, and most agree that if there ever was a confrontation with some wizard, he probably got his throat slit in his sleep with a knife. Whatever the case, most easterlings are rather tolerant towards exagerated tales of heroism, and even if Arol never used this axe, it is still an excellent weapon that almost begs to be tested on somebody else's neck.
    +2 law, +1 morale, +1 experience to the generals bodyguards
    Last edited by The Sloth; November 23, 2011 at 11:16 AM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    I found some notes with suggestions I haven't posted yet, so I'll write them in here. They're mostly about traits for agents.

    traits for diplomats:

    when suffering assassination attempts or spending time in ennemy territory, the effects should disappear over time:

    Nervous
    This man fears that his current mission might be a little more than he bargained for...
    -1 influence

    Fears for his Life
    It is rather difficult to represent your people with dignity when every concealed hand seems to hold a knife.
    -2 influence

    for men of darkness:

    Sinister
    He is no friend of kind words or empty compliments, but goes straight to the heart of the matter.
    +1 influence

    Intimidating
    His strong presence and unfriendly character have an unnerving effect on most listeners.
    +2 influence

    Menacing
    When this man speaks, others better listen, or else. Few have ever openly said ''no'' to him.
    +3 influence

    when spending time in foreign lands (should disappear over time, or when the agent is bribed)

    Used to Foreign Ways
    This man has spent much time studying the locals' customs, and rarely embarasses himself in front of them.
    +1 influence

    Interested in Foreign Ways
    This man may have adopted slightly too many foreign customs, and isn't there a tiny hint of an accent when he speaks in his ''own'' language?
    +2 influence, -20% cost to bribe

    Fascinated in Foreign Ways
    He could pass for a local far easier than the locals themselves, much to the latter's confusion. Wasn't he supposed to represent his own people?
    +2 influence, -50% cost to bribe

    when bribing a lot:

    Reying on Wealth
    While money is a powerful tool indeed, there are still things it can't buy, a fact that this man has almost forgotten.
    -1 influence

    when bribing in foreign lands:

    Intrigant
    Toying with others' alliegance might be entertaining, but is nonetheless a dangerous passtime.
    +1 influence, -1 personal security

    Instigator
    His constant plotting has made him many ennemies who want his tongue as a trophy.
    +1 influence, -2 personal security

    ancillaries for diplomats:

    Bodyguard
    A man of words will surely appreciate a companion who can deal with those who don't feel like talking.
    +2 personal security

    Interceder
    The same argument can sound very different when presented by someone else.
    +1 influence

    when the faction has lots of money:

    Overflowing Purse
    There are always those who prefer the sound of gold to the sound of words, and this man's homeland is known to have plenty of the former.
    -10% cost to bribe

    Precious Present
    People are generally much more enclined to listen when they've been given a token of one's good intentions.
    +1 influence

    Some stuff for spies. Would it be more interesting to have a clearer distinction between spycraft in the wild and spycraft in cities? Some traits and ancillaries only make sense in certain environments, so hidden traits could be used to negate all bonuses that shouldn't be given in a specific environment. It's just that this makes a lot of coding.

    Foreigner (in foreign territory)
    Complexion, clothes, speech... almost everything about this man screams out ''I'm not from here''
    -1 subterfuge, -1 subterfuge in cities, -1 personal security in cities

    Non-Human
    Some people shouldn't even bother trying to disguise themselves.
    -3 subterfuge in cities, -2 personal security in cities

    Chatty Wench (ancillary)
    If secrecy was a sin, this person would be a maia.
    +1 subterfuge in cities, -1 personal security in cities

    Now some stuff for assassins. I think assassins of most factions (all except Harad and Adunabar) could be made much more immersive by giving them a flair of military guerilla groups, like I suggested with the RK in the Ask your questions thread. For instance, assassins of Rhun or Dunland could function in a manner similar to bandits. Their subterfuge wouldn't be as high, their methods being less sophisticated, but they could have a higher culture conversion bonus, their brutal actions bringing disorder into the province and making the owning faction look incapable.

    Hideout (when not moving for several turns, disappears once the agent moves again)
    After exploring the surrounding lands, the group has established a well-hidden base of operations, from where they can plan and execute their raids.
    +1 subterfuge, +2 line of sight, +2 personal security

    basic assassin traits for evil factions:

    Thug
    Violence has always been his second nature, and his current occupation is only a logical application of his talents.
    +1 subterfuge

    Murderer
    Even evil people will show some kind of emotion when killing eachother. Completely suppressing any such emotion is what being a professional killer is all about.
    +2 subterfuge

    Death-Dealer
    ''Killing people is hardly an achievement. They die so easily, after all: through age, diseade, beasts, weapons, hunger, cold, fire, poison and through my humble self.''
    +3 subterfuge

    Reaper (epithet: the King)
    Like a king, this man can condemn others to death simply by pointing at them and saying ''That one''.
    +4 subterfuge

    for men of darkness:

    Marauder
    Preying on the weak may be cowardly, but what idiot attacks someone who's stronger than him?
    +5% conversion to the men of darkness

    Bandit
    Due to him, the outer lands of this region have become a rather dangerous place.
    +10% conversion to the men of darkness

    Pillard
    While others might need an army to devastate an area and terrorize its inhabitants, this man and a few followers can do it all by themselves.
    +15% conversion to the men of darkness

  15. #35

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Beornings:

    Ancillaries

    ¬---------------
    {northmen_armour} Northmen Armour

    {northmen_armour_desc}
    This person is protected by the very same armour that once shielded the ancient Northmen of Rhovanion from harm.

    {northmen_armour_effects_desc}
    +1 command when defending, +2 hitpoints

    ¬---------------

    {beorning_banner} Beorning Banner

    {beorning_banner_desc}
    A brown coloured banner with a black Bear claw on it clearly shows the sign of the Beornings.

    {beorning_banner_effects_desc}
    +1 command, +2 morale

    ¬---------------

    {northmen_blade} Northmen Blade

    {northmen_blade_desc}
    A blade forged by the ancient Northmen of Rhovanion is a weapon that inspires the troops to great extend.

    {northmen_blade_effects_desc}
    +1 command, +1 morale

    ¬---------------

    {woodmen_spear} Woodmen Spear

    {woodmen_spear_desc}
    A spear made by the Woodmen of Mirkwood is of good quality and a deadly weapon to behold.

    {woodmen_spear_effects_desc}
    +1 command

    ¬---------------

    {beorning_horn} Beorning Horn

    {beorning_horn_desc}
    This great horn used by the Beornings gives a morale boost to all troops nearby.

    {beorning_horn_effects_desc}
    +2 command, +1 morale

    ¬---------------

    {beorning_axe} Beorning Axe

    {beorning_axe_desc}
    This person carries a mighty two-handed axe used in combat by the fearsome Beornings.

    {beorning_axe_effects_desc}
    +1 command, +1 morale

    ¬---------------

    {understanding_of_animals} Understanding of Animals

    {understanding_of_animals_desc}
    This person can understand and speak the languages of various animals.

    {understanding_of_animals_effects_desc}
    +2 line of sight, +1 authority, -1 squalor

    ¬---------------

    {spider_bite} Spider Bite

    {spider_bite_desc}
    This person was ambushed and bitten by one of the toxic Spiders of Mirkwood, as such he was poisoned.

    {spider_bite_effects_desc}
    -1 command, - hitpoints, -1 management

    ¬---------------

    {great_eagle} Great Eagle

    {great_eagle_desc}
    An Eagle can be a most useful friend, chieftains use these birds to spy the surrounding areas for them and these watchful birds can also be of great importance in battle.

    {great_eagle_effects_desc}
    +1 authority, increases line of sight

    ¬---------------

    {northmen_shield} Northmen Shield

    {northmen_shield_desc}
    A Northmen shield is an item of great value that has an image of a white horse painted onto it; a symbol representing the bearer's former masters of the Kingdom of Rhovanion.

    {northmen_shield_effects_desc}
    +1 command when defending, +1 command when commanding cavalry, +2 hitpoints

    ¬---------------

    {woodmen_cloak} Woodmen Cloak

    {woodmen_cloak_desc}
    Though a Woodmen’s cloak will not make you invisible, it will definitely ensure that enemies do not spot you, at least not before you spot them.

    {woodmen_cloak_effects_desc}
    Increases line of sight

    ¬---------------

    {scathas_hoard} Scatha's Hoard

    {scathas_hoard_desc}
    A part of the treasure of the Long-worm Scatha was left behind in Framsburg, now parts of the treasury are given to men who have provided the people of Framsburg with great services.

    {scathas_hoard_effects_desc}
    -1 personal security, +2 management, -1 squalor

    ¬---------------

    {warg_coat} Warg Coat

    {warg_coat_desc}
    A Warg coat shows that this person possesses great power and strength, for he has killed a Warg.

    {warg_coat_effects_desc}
    +1 command, +3 hitpoints

    ¬---------------

    {beorning_honey_pies} Beorning Honey Pies

    {beorning_honey_pies_desc}
    These pies are the finest ever made by men, and their value is immeasurable for those that travel far from their homes.

    {beorning_honey_pies_effects_desc}
    +15% movement points, +1 hitpoint, +1 morale

    ¬---------------

    {silvan_elf} Silvan Elf

    {silvan_elf_desc}
    This person has gained the friendship of a Silvan Elf who has trained him to become an excellent forest fighter and who has taught him much of the ancient lore.

    {silvan_elf_effects_desc}
    +1 command when ambushing, +1 personal security, +1 authority

    ¬---------------

    {yew_bow} Yew Bow

    {yew_bow_desc}
    A bow made of yew wood is of excellent quality and can fire with high accuracy; it is used by the men of the Vale of Anduin to deadly effect.

    {yew_bow_effects_desc}
    +1 command when ambushing

    ¬---------------

    {guardian_high_pass} Guardian of the High Pass

    {guardian_high_pass_desc}
    This person has served many years guarding the High Pass against Orc and Wolf invaders; as such he has amassed great wealth by demanding high tolls for passage through it.

    {guardian_high_pass_effects_desc}
    +1 command, +3 hitpoints, -1 squalor

    ¬---------------

    {guardian_carrock} Guardian of Carrock

    {guardian_carrock_desc}
    This person has served many years guarding the Carrock against Orc and Wolf invaders; as such he has ensured the safety of Beorn's Halls for many years.

    {guardian_carrock_effects_desc}
    +1 command, +3 hitpoints

    ¬---------------

    {bear} Bear

    {bear_desc}
    Some Beornings have gained the trust of wild Bears, such an animal can be an useful and faithful servant, it is said that they are so strong, that they can match Giants.

    {bear_effects_desc}
    +1 authority, +1 command, +3 hitpoints, increases line of sight, +2 personal security

    ¬---------------

    {beorning_chieftain} Beorning Chieftain

    {beorning_chieftain_desc}
    This man is chieftain of all living creatures that dwell within the Vales of Anduin.

    {beorning_chieftain_effects_desc}
    +2 authority, +2 command, +2 hitpoints, +2 personal security

    ¬---------------

    {beorning_heir} Beorning Heir

    {beorning_heir_desc}
    This man is heir of all living creatures that live within the Vales of Anduin and will later become their chieftain.

    {beorning_heir_effects_desc}
    +1 authority, +1 command, +1 hitpoints, +1 personal security

    ¬---------------

    Traits

    ¬---------------------
    {Skin_Changer}Skin Changer
    {Skin_Changer_desc}Being able to change into a Bear brings power, influence and deadly abilities.
    {Skin_Changer_effects_desc}+1 authority, +4 hitpoints, +5% movement range
    ¬---------------------
    {Northmen}Northmen
    {Northmen_desc}This person his ancestry can be traced back to the Northmen who inhabited the lands of Rhovanion for centuries.
    {Northmen_effects_desc}+1 authority
    ¬---------------------
    {Éothéod}Éothéod
    {Éothéod_desc}This person is one of the Éothéod, a descendant of the ancient men of Rhovanion, who has not followed Eorl into the south.
    {Éothéod_effects_desc}+1 authority, +10% movement range, +1 command when commanding cavalry
    ¬---------------------
    {Woodmen}Woodmen
    {Woodmen_desc}Being one of the Woodmen of Mirkwood brings a good immune system and knowledge of the area with it.
    {Woodmen_effects_desc}+2 hitpoints, +1 command when ambushing, +10% movement range
    ¬---------------------
    {Beorning}Beorning
    {Beorning_desc}This person is a Beorning, and has served Beorn and his descendants since his birth.
    {Beorning_effects_desc}+1 authority, +4 hitpoints, +1 command
    ¬---------------------

    Arnorian part of Adunabar and the Reunited Kingdom?

    Traits

    Name: Chieftain of Eriador
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +2 Authority, +2 Command, +2 Personal Security
    Trigger: When the Chieftain of Eriador dies, the Chieftain's Heir will become the new Chieftain.

    Name: Chieftain's Heir
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +1 Authority, +1 Command, +1 Personal Security
    Trigger: Only one person at a time can be the Chieftain's Heir.

    Name: Man of Twilight
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +1 Authority, +1 Loyalty
    Trigger: Can be acquired randomly.

    Name: Man of Eriador
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +1 Authority, +1 Loyalty
    Trigger: Can be acquired randomly.

    Name: Bëorian Stock
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +1 Authority, +1 Loyalty
    Trigger: When the father has it, the son will get it as well.

    Name: Pale Skinned
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: No effect
    Trigger: When the father has it, the son will get it as well.

    Name: Swarthy Skinned
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: No effect
    Trigger: When the father has it, the son will get it as well.

    Name: Brown Hair
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: No effect
    Trigger: When the father has it, the son will get it as well.

    Name: Dark hair
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: No effect
    Trigger: When the father has it, the son will get it as well.

    Name: Grey Eyes
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: No effect
    Trigger: When the father has it, the son will get it as well.

    Name: Steadfast
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +1 Command when defending, +1 Hitpoint
    Trigger: Gain a heroic victory.

    Name: Slow to Tears
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: -1 Morale, +1 Personal Security
    Trigger: Gain a crushing defeat.

    Name: Slow to Laughter
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: -1 Morale, +1 Personal Security
    Trigger: Gain a crushing defeat.

    Name: Skilled in Adûnaic (diplomats only)
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +1 Authority
    Trigger: Ensure succesful negotiations with the Númenóreans.

    Name: Skilled in Sindarin (diplomats only)
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +1 Authority
    Trigger: Ensure succesful negotiations with the Elves.

    Ancillaries

    Name: Andrath Sentinel
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +1 Command when defending
    Trigger: Stay one turn in either the Barrow-downs or in the South Downs.

    Name: Ancestor Burried at the Barrow-downs
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +2 Authority, +2 Loyalty
    Trigger: When the father has it, the son will get it as well.

    Name: Elf-friend
    Description:
    Effect\Bonus: +2 Authority, +2 Hitpoints, Increases moving speed
    Trigger: Stay one turn in Elf territory, or aid the Elves in one of their battles.
    Last edited by Elphir of Dol Amroth; September 30, 2011 at 08:47 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    I'm currently reworking my suggestions for new assassin traits. One idea I had was to have assassins get a random trait everytime they perform a mission that tells what happened. But in order to make them as little repetitive as possible, I'd have to write quite a few of them. Since this is a lot of work, I'll only do this if there is explicit interest from the team. Here are some examples:

    example: failure
    While returning to his lodging after a night of festivities and beer, the victim appearently got into a dispute with an unknown person, resulting in a violent knifing. The enraged shouts quickly attracted a number of locals, forcing the assailiant to run away. The victim is currently telling increasingly embelished tales of his fight to everyone he meets.

    examples: success
    The vicitm was recently found dead in his lodging, covered in wounds and robbed of many of his belongings. During the following investigations, some of said belongings were found in the possession of one of his bodyguards. His assertions of innocence didn't fool anyone, and the man was swiftly executed for his crime.

    Shortly after being afflicted by a serious illness, the victim called upon the help of a passing healer, who had been wandering the land. The medicine he received soothed his affliction admirably, but on the road of recovery, his condition suddenly worsened after a few days. The mysterious healer was long gone, and the victim died in a most painful way.
    Last edited by The Sloth; October 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Sorry for the very delayed reply, I've kinda pushed VnVs further down in my list of things to do, as other stuff crop up.

    @ Sloth: While those are good and they do add flavour, it will require an inordinate amount of work to get them done properly and some times they might not quite fit with what's going on in the campaign (eg a victim being assassinated in the middle of the desert, and the text speaking of his house or something). In order to make all that synch'd with the campaign, you'd need quite a few traits and triggers, and trust me, DoM is gonna have a LOT of those even without flavour-stuff.

    Don't get me wrong, nice concept, but I need to get the essentials in game before I start worrying about flavour.


    @ Elphir: Thanks for the ideas! Some I think offer little in terms of gameplay, but we'll implement those we find useful.
    Last edited by Aradan; October 14, 2011 at 01:47 PM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    some times they might not quite fit with what's going on in the campaign (eg a victim being assassinated in the middle of the desert, and the text speaking of his house or something). In order to make all that synch'd with the campaign, you'd need quite a few traits and triggers, and trust me, DoM is gonna have a LOT of those even without flavour-stuff.

    Don't get me wrong, nice concept, but I need to get the essentials in game before I start worrying about flavour.
    The idea was that these mini-stories should fit wherever assassin and victim might be on the map. You're right, towns shouldn't be mentioned in any of them. I guess I got overly excited over my own idea, and messed up my examples. I have corrected them since.
    As for the triggers, random triggers would completely suffice, something like the NaturalAgentSkill triggers.

    As for gameplay>flavour, I very much hope that is the case. I'd feel kinda bad if I were making tons of suggestions about traits while you're already coding them the way you had them in mind. That way, I'm not too late like I was with buildings.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    Some new ideas for assassins.

    NaturalAssassinSkill (NAS). This version of these traits are no longer an indication of the assassin's talent, but of his social origin. I suggest that assassins be recruited from a city's core building instead of market. This should make more sense, since they are 'hired by the state', and buying free-lance assassins in the next inn would be especially problematic for good-aligned factions. Better core buildings also should improve the assassins NAS. Elves are a special case, since they only get the highest level of this trait.

    lvl 1

    Thug (all evil factions)
    This man has always been a brute of a man who, for a handful of coins, will gladly get rid of any hindrance, human or otherwise.
    +1 subterfuge

    Soldier (all good factions except elves)
    Having shown a certain affinity for this kind of mission, this man has been sent as a scout and skirmisher against targets unsuited for larger groups.
    +1 subterfuge

    lvl 2

    Murderer (Harad, Cultic Adunabar)
    While hiring some club-wielding brute is convenient and easy, it might not suffice to accomplish more sophisticated missions. Murderers like him, who exerce their 'trade' with a certain creativity. and carefully create their own opportunities, are surprisingly difficult to come by.
    +2 Subterfuge

    Hunter (all good factions except elves)
    Woodmen, rangers and hunters are stealthy, elusive and autonomous. If their sense of duty or sheer circumstances force them to hunt a very different kind of game, their foes better not raise their heads too high...
    +2 subterfuge, +10% movement points

    Bandit (Dunland, Rhun)
    Some people really couldn't care less who suffers from their violence, as long as there is enough to steal and kill unpunished. If given the right incentive, this man can not only go after the right people, but will also sow disorder and destruction wherever he goes.
    +2 subterfuge, +5% conversion to the men of darkness

    lvl 3 (where available)

    Death-Dealer (Harad)
    The ever-lasting struggle for power among the many different factions in Harad has brought forth the need to swiftly, cheaply and discretely finish feuds before the parties involved suffer to much from their infighting. Only in Harad does assassination have a certain tradition, and for the right price, an experienced Death-Dealer such as this one just might decide to end your feuds for you as well.
    +3 subterfuge, +1 personal security

    Shadow of Death (was it Agganaloim?) (Cultist Adunabar)
    The Shadow Cult has long matured without arousing much suspicion. Deceit and trickery are the favored weapons of its members wherever their foes are too strong to be confronted openly. Consequently, a poisoned glass of wine or a dagger in the back are accepted and proven means for them, and training in their use is viewed as a most fitting way to serve their lord.
    +3 subterfuge, +5% conversion to the shadow cult

    Dunedaic Ranger (RK, ''good'' Adunabar)
    Fighting from the shadows is nothing new to the Dunedain of the North, who have long lived in hiding, attacking their foes when they least expected it. Even today, many live in a very similar way and sneak through the lands of men, taking on any evil they encounter.
    +3 subterfuge, +10% movement points, +5% conversion to the men of the west

    Elven Ranger
    Gifted with litterally inhuman agility, sensoral perception, understanding of natural environments and many, many centuries to hone their skills, elves are the world's most accomplished scouts and rangers. Confronting them on their own terrain is an endeavour only the very best, and luckiest, agents of other races can hope to survive.
    +3 subterfuge, +10% movement points, +5% conversion to the men of the west, +1 personal security
    ______________________________________________________________

    Then, here's a new attempt for new GoodAssassin traits. I'm not too happy with the ones I suggested earlier, and I'm not too happy with these either, but I can't think of anything better. Do with it what you will.

    lvl 1

    Blood-Stained Hands (Harad, Cultist Adunabar)
    Killing unrelated people for a few coins doesn't weigh too heavily on this man's conscience.
    +1 subterfuge

    Solitary Shade (all others)
    This man is harrassing the ennemy independently of the main army.
    +1 subterfuge

    lvl 2

    Knife in the Night (Harad, Cultist Adunabar)
    This man displays the ruthlessness and skill of a true assassin.
    +2 subterfuge

    Silent Stalker (all others)
    His unpredictable attacks have become a constant thorn in the ennemy's side.
    +2 subterfuge

    lvl 3

    Opener of Doors (Harad, Cultist Adunabar)
    It seems that no obstacle can keep this man away from his intended victim. Is there even a way to stop him?
    +3 Subterfuge

    Hidden Hero (all others)
    Few will ever know just how much he has affected the course of history in favour of his people.
    +3 subterfuge

    lvl 4

    Messenger of Death (Harad, cultist Adunabar)
    He kills with such ease that he cannot but wonder whether the assassinations he performs should be considered a 'natural' cause of death.
    +4 subterfuge

    One Worth Hundreds (all others)
    A host of hardy warriors wouldn't achieve half as much as he does when let loose in the wilderness.
    +4 subterfuge

  20. #40
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Traits and Ancillaries Suggestions

    While running some CBs for testing, I had an idea, not sure if this has been suggested though.
    Men usually feel better in an environment they are used to and they know. They'll also fight harder if they have to defend their homes. So, similar to the supply trait system in TNS, I suggest a small morale improving trait if the army is fighting in their homeland.

    I don't know if that really works based on the hidden resources, or if the engine can only differ between hostile and non-hostile regions (as it was the case for the supply traits).
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

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