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Thread: Darth Formations 10.8 (updated)standalone version.

  1. #1

    Default Darth Formations 10.8 (updated)standalone version.

    (OBSOLETE new formations ready)

    DARTH FORMATIONS 10.8(updated)


    These are the formations used with my latest full Mod conversion of Rome Total War called DarthMod 6.9. Check it here how to download and use latest patches
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44816. For best gameplay effect play them with my mod.
    These formations have a unique character for each faction something first done for Rome:Total War.
    That means, each faction will use specific formation roles to fulfill its needs according to faction’s strength and weaknesses. No more randomness and irrelevant formation styles. You will witness an AI never seen before, which uses strategies taken from actual history of each culture. Each set of formation will swap between roles and according to circumstances, AI will use a variation to attack, defend, maneuver, turn, flank, retreat with extreme accuracy.

    These formations are 100% combatible with original RTW:1.3/1.5. versions (Or simply play old campaign with version 1.6 = purchased BI). If any mod makes alterations to the factions used by RTW then it will not play.

    I will briefly describe the strategy of each formation:

    -Greek-Theban formation (used by greek_cities)
    Implementation of the actual ancient greek strategy firstly introduced by the Thebans.
    The Phalanx was angled with the left wing being reinforced and the right weakened.
    Due to greek-phalanx overlapping shielding there was a habit of a clockwise movement of the phalanx formation of the 2 confronted armies and this formation took use of this attribute by quickly destroying the right enemy flank with the pushing and reinforced mass of the left wing. I could not implement the angle due to hard coded reasons but the effect is similar. The flanks of the phalanx will be actively be protected and covered by cavalry and missile infantry.

    -Roman manipular formation (used by romans_julii, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, romans_senate)
    Implementation of the historic manipular roman formation that was introduced by the early republican roman army (with velites – hastati- principes – Triarii organization) to the late legion empire army of Marius.
    Each unit is a maniple and is in such box formation that is almost a self depended force. The Romans will lively maneuver, flank, attack with skirmishers in an unparallel way comparing to any formation. It has no real weaknesses. It cannot be flanked easily and AI roman will always use reserves if available to strike with momentum.

    -Alexander the Great Macedon formation (used by Macedon)
    Implementation of the actual historical Greek formation used by Alexander the Great to conquer the known ancient world of the ancient times. The phalanx is deployed thickly in the center. Some auxiliary forces will cover flanks and also some will skirmish ahead. A powerful semi-wedge cavalry formation will be deployed at the right with the general leading from behind. In the hands of AI it can be a real menace due to the thunderous cavalry charge which creates.
    -Epigonus battle formation (used by Egypt, Seleucid)
    The evolution of Alexander’s heritage of battle tactics. It has some minor alterations though such as conservative general behaviour behind, balanced cover of flanks and usage of Elephants in priority. The center will consist the thick formation of phalanx as well.

    -Carthaginian Poison formation (used by Carthage)
    A formation that will actively flank and depend in Elephant force if available.
    The flanking will be tried also from heavy infantry en mass in both flanks (If there is available). A really tricky formation that gives the impression of AI defeat only to realize that you are surrounded! It is a mix of historical usage of battles fought between Carthage and Romans.

    -Nomad formation (used by Scythia)
    A really punishing formation that uses with extreme efficiency horse archery.
    The horses will play the primary role in the formation creating a gap in the center and flanking forces to both sides. Also there will be reserve cavalry behind the infantry that will reside afar and in the center to counter enemy threats. Constant moving and keep of distance will be the main strategy of this formation for the AI. The formation uses effectively the historical strategy of the nomads.

    -Asian battle formation (used by Pontus, Armenia)
    A formation that its main character is the mass frontal usage of skirmishers and effective cavalry cover of infantry mostly with countering from behind.
    The general will be protected by cavalry at all costs. Also missile cavalry will effectively harass human forces to both flanks. The Asian armies were depended too much from their cavalry and missile units. This has been reflected realistically.

    -Skirmishing Battle formation (used by Parthia, Numidia)
    Armies with superior missile cavalry and decent infantry units use this formation to punish human army with coordinated attack with both. Missile cavalry will challenge human army from the start and infantry is thinly placed at the center ready to break and isolate human forces to be countered by predatory cavalry and foot skirmishers.
    Mainly a Parthian tactic but also adapted by Arab ancient forces later.

    -Barbaric Onslaught formation (used by Gauls, Britons, Dacia, Germans)
    It reflects the exact way of thinking and fighting of ancient Barbarian warfare. The heavy infantry forces are deployed en mass in the center and start the attack with no haste to crash the opponent. Archery will cover from behind while both flanks are protected by cavalry. Simple, heroic and effective.

    -Semi-Barbarian formation (used by slave, thrace, spain)
    A mix of civilized and barbaric warfare. Mixed heavy forces will consist with cohesion the center. Both flanks will be protected with cavalry but placed in a “civilized protective” position. Missile units often will swap, go to wings and attack the unprotected flanks of human army. A formation which has no real weaknesses and benefits but uses a balanced mix of strategies.

    Also Siege tactics are enhanced and different strategies will be used by Eastern, Barbarian, Greek and Roman cultures.
    Bridge AI tactics are also enhanced to provide a crash of human forces from the start of the battle and also less fatality of generals.

    Human formations are enriched with adaptation of most of the above mentioned formations to the custom based formation of the game.
    To use them select all or a proportion of your army, group them and select one of the special formations with efficiency. Special adjustments have been made to preserve the alt-click keep of formation.

    -Update 10.8:Corrected some minor issues in human formations=
    1)The alt-click preserve
    2)Some rare CTDs when too many units were drag and tried to be put in a single line

    Do not hesitate to contact me in my forums : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=71
    http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...p?showforum=34
    and my e-mail: [email protected]
    for comments, feedback and suggestions.

    I hope you all enjoy it!

    Darth Vader

  2. #2

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    You never cease to amaze me Darth...excellent work

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Foederatus
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    hehe! now THAT was quick!!! thx Darth!
    Helmut "Hammer" Fritz
    RLGaming
    http://www.rlgaming.com/phpBB/

  5. #5

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    I included the last formations files in my mod for testing:
    - field battles are fine: the greek-theban steelwalls are frightening
    - bridge battles: AI is getting always clogged (even with the desr_mount.txt from your mod)on the bridge, no problems with sinuhets formations
    - siege: not tested

    Maybe my mod parameters are not optimal for your formations

    repman

    BareBonesWars 8.1 for RTW 1.5
    Integration Mod which combines unique strategic challenges due to a 4 Season scripted campaign from 280 BC - 180 AD on several big/small maps and with an ruthless AI on the battlefield.
    Deus lo Vult DLV 6.2 for MTW II Kingdoms
    Norway+Ireland+Flanders+Kiev+Lithuania+Teutonic_Order+Armenia+Crusader+Georgia,1y2t script, army field costs, Ultimate AI 1.6, big map, military career, economic system, age simulation, heraldic system, new factions, garrison script, Crowns + Swords, Trait bugfixer, religion dependent recruiting, ancillary enhancements, darth battle mechanics

  6. #6
    Foederatus
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    i intend to test with XGM - do you forsee any issues Darth?
    Helmut "Hammer" Fritz
    RLGaming
    http://www.rlgaming.com/phpBB/

  7. #7

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    Thanks all..tell me your findings.

    Not at all Steel...tell me results.

    @repman: About bridge battles: I have not perfect them . I think I will change in the future. Still it is an enhancement.
    As for other field battles ,if you try extensively I simply think that these formations are superior to anything that exists up to now and not bcs also there is also only 1 man except me that modifies them = sinuhet who has done good job in many aspects.
    Even from my all previous work they are 200% better.
    Only the fact that there is a specialization for each faction is smthg very helpful for the AI and for the first time done.
    Also to accomplish this was not an easy task bcs of the various problems with CTDs that would occur in the slightest mistake of formation entry and type.
    Right now they will play flawless and that is an accomplishment. I plan to make a tutorial to continue the existing one since in order to do this specialization is not only a name procedure of formation type but a lot other in order not to have CTDs, and people deserve to know.

    If someone plans to copy paste formation sets from one text to another I warn him of possible CTDs since AI searches for various things that must fullfill all the roles. If it does not find them ,it CTds

  8. #8

    Default 10.8 Ctd

    Playing the Julii faction (my favorite) I get CTD everytime I attack a rebel settlement. I am not sure if this is due to 10.8 Formation or not. Please help. Clean install RTW 1.5.

    I am going to try a complete fresh install of RTW just in case it is something I did. In the meantime, If you have any information, I will be glad to listen.

    Thanks very much,

    lacius

    EDIT: Don't know what happened, but a fresh install cured the problem. Thanks anyway.
    Last edited by lacius628; March 04, 2006 at 01:51 PM.

  9. #9
    SARMATIAN LEADER's Avatar Biarchus
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    is these formations compatible with SPQR 6???

    -Kossovo is Serbia- -Macedonia is Greek-


    The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his. ~George Patton

  10. #10

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    @lacius628oes not look like formations trouble. Hope you do all correct in installation.
    @SARMATIAN LEADER(ellinas eisai?):I think SPQR does not use all factions of vanilla so I think no. Needs adaptation.

  11. #11
    JaggerMech's Avatar Foederatus
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    Use RTW 1.3, test on custom battle: play Julii as defender again Brutii.
    Both army have formation (front to back) : 3 archer, 3 principe, 3 principe, 3 archer, general and 2 equites on each wing.
    When Brutii's march to me, although my front archer has open fire, their front archers continue to march together with infantry. When those archers finally decide to stop, they have shaken and rout. They don't even have a chance to fire.

    The general behaviour is good. He decide to charge my front after almost their infantry has duel with mine. However he is not try to retreat when my general countercharge. So he die.

  12. #12
    Byzantium's Avatar Semisalis
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    Great work as usual Darth,many many thanks to you.

  13. #13

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    OK, I have been playing with the 6.9 version using the 10.8 formations (R: TW 1.5 VH/M).

    What I've experienced so far is brilliant. I get a good challenge from the enemy etc. There's one small, but very noticable bug, though. The way the AI uses missile units.

    The AI always keeps missile units behind the lines and in formation with the rest of the army, when they should be out in front firing. By the time they get in range to fire anyway, they only manage to fire off a couple of shots before their countered by another unit.

    Because of this I have ceased to build archers at all as I feel like I'm cheating when I use them. And it seems the AI doesn't build many archers anyway, which is a problem.

    Anyway, apart from that, the formations are really really impressive, so is the whole mod in general. If the archers were used correctly by the AI, it would be even better.

    Great work.

  14. #14
    Trajan's Avatar Capodecina
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    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH VADER
    I think SPQR does not use all factions of vanilla so I think no. Needs adaptation.

    I'm using it with SPQR 6.0 and it's working perfectly. After several turns, I haven't noticed any bugs/issues whatsoever and the AI is using the formations brilliantly.

  15. #15

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    Hmmm in my mod there is a lot of street fighting, because most of the settlements have no walls. But in darth user formations there is no more the standard formation column, so I have to place the troops all manually. Do you think it is a good idea to combine sinuhets player formations (which still includes most of the standard formations) with your AI formations or is this a bad idea (then the player doesn't have your factionspecific formations)?

    repman

    BareBonesWars 8.1 for RTW 1.5
    Integration Mod which combines unique strategic challenges due to a 4 Season scripted campaign from 280 BC - 180 AD on several big/small maps and with an ruthless AI on the battlefield.
    Deus lo Vult DLV 6.2 for MTW II Kingdoms
    Norway+Ireland+Flanders+Kiev+Lithuania+Teutonic_Order+Armenia+Crusader+Georgia,1y2t script, army field costs, Ultimate AI 1.6, big map, military career, economic system, age simulation, heraldic system, new factions, garrison script, Crowns + Swords, Trait bugfixer, religion dependent recruiting, ancillary enhancements, darth battle mechanics

  16. #16

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    @JaggerMech: These are optimised for 1.5 bcs I actually tested them only 0n 1.5. But still I think they will play well in 1.3
    @Byzantium:Give me feedback which formation/faction you like best.
    @Serial_Killa:Generally in 1.5 there is not a good manipulation in defence-archery. Have accomplished to make it better as much as I could with some minor adjustments but I think nothing more can be accomplished to this.
    Which formations do you like most?
    @Trajan:Great news to this. I thought that there may have been a problem
    @repman:I could not suggest that generally bcs the human formations provided in the package contain the strategies used by the factions so human can easily pick amongst them and group units easily. Also in my latest update there are minor adjustments that are producing a very efficient swapping of formations for the human player if he gets used to the system.

    Also I have finished (almost) DarthFormations 12.
    I will not upload them till DarthMod_7.0 is uploaded.
    Want to test a lot of things for debugging.
    Corrects many minor flaws of current formations + much improved bridge formations + better AI maneuvring

  17. #17

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    @Serial_Killa:Generally in 1.5 there is not a good manipulation in defence-archery. Have accomplished to make it better as much as I could with some minor adjustments but I think nothing more can be accomplished to this.
    Which formations do you like most?
    Well, it's not as big an issue as I thought. It seems it's the Barbarian factions that suffer the most from it. I noticed after fighting some non-barbarian factions they use their missile units alot better and field more of them than the barbarian factions tend to.

    However, the way you have made the barbarians fight makes up for that. The massed barbarian charge is brilliant, the effect is huge on morale especially as they all do a warcry before they charge too. It makes the Gauls much more challenging. Such a good idea for a formation, certainly one of the best due to the morale drop it causes to the enemy.

  18. #18
    Byzantium's Avatar Semisalis
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    Well,i have been trying a few factions out that i have never played before such as Parthia and Armenia.I have tried a few custom battles against the Romans who are now a real pain to fight as they dont really present a single line flank as such that i can get around with my horse archers.They seem less inclined to throw their cavalry into the fray immedietley which seems to keep their formation nice and tight.

    I have started a new campaign with Selucia (who i have also never played before) and my main army From Antioch has been crushed in a large battle of about equal numbers.Their Nubian spearmen made a mad rush at my cavalry (Militias) on the flanks which negated them from the battle.Two units of chariots then swung in from their left flank which i had no counter to which effectively ended my resistance.I remember the Egyptian chariots of old flying straight at my Phalanx line,I'd never seen anything like this before.

    I have lost two battles now as Selucia which is unusual for me as i only usually fight if i'm sure i'll win.I certainly have more respect for all enemies now.

    Anyway i need to start a new campaign so i'll feedback a bit more after my second attempt.By the way i like to play on VH/VH.

    Thanks again for a great mod 8)

  19. #19
    SARMATIAN LEADER's Avatar Biarchus
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    nai darth ellinas eimai dokimasa ta formations sto SPQR 6 kai douleuei comple!Poli kali douleia,keep it up!!(niko se lene?)

    -Kossovo is Serbia- -Macedonia is Greek-


    The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his. ~George Patton

  20. #20

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    Guess it dosent work with version 1.2 (and therefore not RTR 6.0 Gold)???

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