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Thread: Was the loss of the First Punic War due to marine disasters?

  1. #1

    Default Was the loss of the First Punic War due to marine disasters?

    The First Punic War is not very well documented, and land battles are very few and far between, but thanks to Polybius, Philinus, and others, we can recreate the war on paper.

    Introduction
    The war at sea in the First Punic War was a very hectic, unco-ordinated piece of warfare. A navy, if large, could not easily be controlled, and the necessity of experienced mariners and crews was quintessential to victory. The western Mediterranean was dominated, by the most part, by pirates and Carthaginians. The Punic warships were light, fast and were easily maneouvred. This advantage led to the invention of the ram, which was put at the front of the ships to allow ramming to occur.

    This procedure needed highly trained and skilled crewmen, and the more usual grappling tactics were used for more cumbersome and less trained ships. The ships, as in RTW, were broken down into categories. There were biremes, triremes and quinquerimes. The numbers (obviously 2 for bireme, 3 for trireme etc) were due to, most historians believe, the layers of rowers that a ship had. The maximum was usually five or four, in a quinquereme, due to the extremely hard task it is to row a boat when you are 20 feet above the sea.

    The Romans, during the First Punic War, had been determined to build a fleet of ships. Due to their dominating position in the Italian peninsula, one of the ways of warfare was now obviously through the sea. This idea led to the full-scale building of 100 quinqueremes (fours or fives, usually fives) and 20 triremes. Don't let the stats fool you, a quinquereme could hold many soldiers. Before the building of the fleet, usually Athenians or other allies lent their ships to the Romans due to trade agreements, such as the treaty of 278 with Carthage. The Roman fleet, as Polybius claims, was built on the design of a Carthaginian ship, which was wrecked on the Italian coast.

    The ships were often manned by the proletarii, the poorest of the poor. These men were not trained enough for legion warfare, and were ideally suited to join the 30,000 men needed to row the fleets. Also, the socii navales allowed trained captains and marines to join the fleets, who were also suited to them, but in the role of command not obedience. This was to be crucial in the war to come.

    The First Punic War 264-241

    The war, essentially, was a naval one. Land battles were quite rare, and the battles that were fought were clearly in Roman favour. The Carthaginians were a more superior naval peoples, who had constructed again and again fleets, and whose marine crews were highly trained in the art of ramming. The war began, basically, due to disagreements on the island of Sicily, between Syracuse and the Mamertine held Messana. The Romans, being the superpower that they would become, began to take action. They moved straight towards Messana, to give aid to the Mamertines and expel the Carthaginian rivals. Soon after, Hiero, King of Syracuse, defected to the Romans.

    The Siege of Agrigentum, a Carthaginian city in Sicily, began in 262 and, after a relief force was beaten off, the Romans siezed the day and the city. This showed the Carthaginians that the war must be fought at sea, to blockade and to raid. The Romans, seeing this action, reacted in a very surpising way.



    This is the corvus, the long, bridge-type planks that the Romans used to board Punic ships. It was invented in 261BCE, by an unknown Greek inventor, and was the most effective weapon at the Romans' disposal. Their ships were not as light as the Punic ones, and the only ramming team was the group of triremes that the Romans had encouraged. The corvus made the usual sea battle into another type of land battle, to use the advantage of experienced fighting troops against inexperienced mariners.

    Battles at Sea

    The first encounter at sea was the Battle of Lipara in 260BCE. The Carthaginians successfully surprised the Romans and defeated an entire Roman squadron, led by Scipio 'Asina', and captured him. However, soon after, a fleet led by Hannibal Gisgo came into trouble against a fleet of Romans, using the newly invented corvus. This proved its worth in the following Battle of Mylae, where the Carthaginians had tried, and failed, to use ramming techniques, and were grappled and boarded using the corvus. This battle not only relieved the blockade of Segesta, but showed the Carthaginians that they were no longer immortal.

    The next two battles, at Sulci and Tyndaris, were both sea victories for the Romans, and both admirals were rewarded with a triumph when they returned to Rome. The latter battle, however, shocked the Romans. They believed morale was broken, but the Punic ships kept coming. They decided an attack on Africa was the only solution. The battle to come would decide the outcome of the war.

    The Battle of Ecnomus

    The Roman fleet, due to decisions of invasion in North Africa, had risen to 330 warships, with carriers and transport alike. Each quinquerime was now filled with invasion forces, so that marine numbers bumped up to 120 men per ship. The Carthaginians, with around the same number of ships as the Romans, sailed to Lilybaeum, and from this sailed around the coast of Sicily to Hereclea Minoa. The Romans were ready to either fight a naval battle, or fight in Africa, either way they expected a battle soon.

    The two consuls, Regulus and Vulso, led the navy, as the leaders of the army was also the leader of the navy in Rome. The fleet was divided into four parts, I-IV, called legions, as was the Punic navy when they saw the Roman actions. The Roman ships, however, had a reserve squadron called the triarii, whereas the Punic fleet had all ships in a line. The battle opened well, and the leader of the Punic fleet, Hamilcar Barca, father of Hannibal Barca, had set a trap. The Roman legions I and II charged the thinner line, which generally was because the ships seemed further apart. The trap was sprung when Hamilcar retreated the thin part of the line, allowed the Romans to chase, and closed the gap. However, the corvus came to the rescue again.

    The Punic ships, tired and weary, began to flee from the back of the line (the trapped Roman forces). The other legions, however, held, and a squadron of ships led by Hanno began to charge the triarii section of the Roman line. However, the once trapped legions of the Romans had been freed, and charged to relieve the triarii. They succeeded, and the Punic ships fell apart.

    It is widely believed that the corvus caused the battle to turn, but morale could have played a part. The Punic ships, although they had trapped the Romans', began to disintegrate. The other legions fought amongst themselves, but the disadvantage was that the ships were no longer in a line, but four groups. The ships on both sides fought bravely, but the Romans became victorious and won the largest sea battle in history.

    Although, later in the war, the Romans lost many ships due to storms and stupidity, the Punic forces had received the most damage, and had been ultimately destroyed by the newly invented Roman ships. I conclude that the war at sea had allowed the Romans beat the Carthaginians at their own game, and this meant that the Punic ships and armies had no advantage whatsoever, except for discipline and training, showed by Xanthippus in the Battle of Tunic. If the Carthaginians had learnt and adapted as the Romans had, they could have had a fighting chance. However, they didn't and were ultimately too tired to fight back. The First Punic War was won, and at a huge cost to the Carthaginians.

  2. #2

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    Nice information. Where did you get it? Did you read it and put it in your own words, or did you copy and paste it? Just curious, because that is a lot to put in your own words hehe
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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Mmm... it was one factor right, as Carthage's infatry was weaker than Rome infantry. So as long as Rome changed the sea battle as a infantry battleground, Carthage would surely lost. Without battleship, Carthage couldn't give enough support to Sciliy battleground... So we can say that when Carthage navy was defeated by Roman, Carthage actually lost the war ready.
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    PyrrhusIV's Avatar Primicerius
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    The major deciding factor of the 1st Punic War was definitly the Sea. I must agree with Spartacus Popat. The land battles were not always the deciding factor. Besides, without the Sea, the Romans could get to land.

    It is demostrated the Carthaginians could win under competent commanders. Two of these, Hamilcar Barca and Xanthippus, a Spartan, proved their weight in gold. Xanthippus is known for the utter defeat of the Consul Regulus with 20,000 Romans, and Hamilcar, for his brilliant and heroic Sicilian Campaign.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus The Inane
    Nice information. Where did you get it? Did you read it and put it in your own words, or did you copy and paste it? Just curious, because that is a lot to put in your own words hehe
    I read it, mostly from the book The Fall of Carthage, by Adrian Goldsworthy, its a great read and I recommend it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987
    Mmm... it was one factor right, as Carthage's infatry was weaker than Rome infantry. So as long as Rome changed the sea battle as a infantry battleground, Carthage would surely lost.
    The Battle of Ecnomus, for example, was won because of the bulk of marines on board were actually an invasion force, set for North Africa. Along with the corvus, this was a great advantage to the Romans, for the Carthaginians were rammers, not boarders or defenders.

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    Decemvir's Avatar vox veritas vita
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus-Popat
    I read it, mostly from the book The Fall of Carthage, by Adrian Goldsworthy, its a great read and I recommend it.
    Yes, Goldsworthy's book is very good. I'd also recommend The First Punic War by Lazenby. Probably the only book (in English) in-print dealing exclusively with the First Punic War. Lazenby's book is VERY thorough in its examination of ancient sources.
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  7. #7

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    Was the bridge on the corvus boat turable, or did they have to line up the boat?
    I mean could they turn the boarding plank so they didn't have to turn the boat.

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    shadepanther's Avatar Senator
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    It could reach a ship if it was rammed in any position. It could reach behind the ship and drop on the enemy so basically if the Roman ships got rammed they could board the enemy or if they rammed the enemy. Either way it neutralised the Carthaginian's main advantage at sea.

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    Marcus Trajan's Avatar Pater Exercituum
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    Yes, corvus was a major factor for Roman superiority over Carthiginians at sea during First Punic War. But, it also made Roman ships so unstable that Roman ships became unseaworthy. It contibuted to the appalling loss they suffered as a result of bad weather.

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    Vicarius
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    Default Re: Was the loss of the First Punic War due to marine disasters?

    A quinquereme isn't either a four or a five, it's just a five. Quinque = five. Fours would be called quadrireme
    Last edited by Mathias; March 10, 2008 at 04:36 AM.
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  11. #11
    DAVIDE's Avatar QVID MELIVS ROMA?
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    Default Re: Was the loss of the First Punic War due to marine disasters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shyam Popat View Post
    The First Punic War is not very well documented, and land battles are very few and far between, but thanks to Polybius, Philinus, and others, we can recreate the war on paper.

    Introduction
    The war at sea in the First Punic War was a very hectic, unco-ordinated piece of warfare. A navy, if large, could not easily be controlled, and the necessity of experienced mariners and crews was quintessential to victory. The western Mediterranean was dominated, by the most part, by pirates and Carthaginians. The Punic warships were light, fast and were easily maneouvred. This advantage led to the invention of the ram, which was put at the front of the ships to allow ramming to occur.

    This procedure needed highly trained and skilled crewmen, and the more usual grappling tactics were used for more cumbersome and less trained ships. The ships, as in RTW, were broken down into categories. There were biremes, triremes and quinquerimes. The numbers (obviously 2 for bireme, 3 for trireme etc) were due to, most historians believe, the layers of rowers that a ship had. The maximum was usually five or four, in a quinquereme, due to the extremely hard task it is to row a boat when you are 20 feet above the sea.

    The Romans, during the First Punic War, had been determined to build a fleet of ships. Due to their dominating position in the Italian peninsula, one of the ways of warfare was now obviously through the sea. This idea led to the full-scale building of 100 quinqueremes (fours or fives, usually fives) and 20 triremes. Don't let the stats fool you, a quinquereme could hold many soldiers. Before the building of the fleet, usually Athenians or other allies lent their ships to the Romans due to trade agreements, such as the treaty of 278 with Carthage. The Roman fleet, as Polybius claims, was built on the design of a Carthaginian ship, which was wrecked on the Italian coast.

    The ships were often manned by the proletarii, the poorest of the poor. These men were not trained enough for legion warfare, and were ideally suited to join the 30,000 men needed to row the fleets. Also, the socii navales allowed trained captains and marines to join the fleets, who were also suited to them, but in the role of command not obedience. This was to be crucial in the war to come.

    The First Punic War 264-241

    The war, essentially, was a naval one. Land battles were quite rare, and the battles that were fought were clearly in Roman favour. The Carthaginians were a more superior naval peoples, who had constructed again and again fleets, and whose marine crews were highly trained in the art of ramming. The war began, basically, due to disagreements on the island of Sicily, between Syracuse and the Mamertine held Messana. The Romans, being the superpower that they would become, began to take action. They moved straight towards Messana, to give aid to the Mamertines and expel the Carthaginian rivals. Soon after, Hiero, King of Syracuse, defected to the Romans.

    The Siege of Agrigentum, a Carthaginian city in Sicily, began in 262 and, after a relief force was beaten off, the Romans siezed the day and the city. This showed the Carthaginians that the war must be fought at sea, to blockade and to raid. The Romans, seeing this action, reacted in a very surpising way.



    This is the corvus, the long, bridge-type planks that the Romans used to board Punic ships. It was invented in 261BCE, by an unknown Greek inventor, and was the most effective weapon at the Romans' disposal. Their ships were not as light as the Punic ones, and the only ramming team was the group of triremes that the Romans had encouraged. The corvus made the usual sea battle into another type of land battle, to use the advantage of experienced fighting troops against inexperienced mariners.

    Battles at Sea

    The first encounter at sea was the Battle of Lipara in 260BCE. The Carthaginians successfully surprised the Romans and defeated an entire Roman squadron, led by Scipio 'Asina', and captured him. However, soon after, a fleet led by Hannibal Gisgo came into trouble against a fleet of Romans, using the newly invented corvus. This proved its worth in the following Battle of Mylae, where the Carthaginians had tried, and failed, to use ramming techniques, and were grappled and boarded using the corvus. This battle not only relieved the blockade of Segesta, but showed the Carthaginians that they were no longer immortal.

    The next two battles, at Sulci and Tyndaris, were both sea victories for the Romans, and both admirals were rewarded with a triumph when they returned to Rome. The latter battle, however, shocked the Romans. They believed morale was broken, but the Punic ships kept coming. They decided an attack on Africa was the only solution. The battle to come would decide the outcome of the war.

    The Battle of Ecnomus

    The Roman fleet, due to decisions of invasion in North Africa, had risen to 330 warships, with carriers and transport alike. Each quinquerime was now filled with invasion forces, so that marine numbers bumped up to 120 men per ship. The Carthaginians, with around the same number of ships as the Romans, sailed to Lilybaeum, and from this sailed around the coast of Sicily to Hereclea Minoa. The Romans were ready to either fight a naval battle, or fight in Africa, either way they expected a battle soon.

    The two consuls, Regulus and Vulso, led the navy, as the leaders of the army was also the leader of the navy in Rome. The fleet was divided into four parts, I-IV, called legions, as was the Punic navy when they saw the Roman actions. The Roman ships, however, had a reserve squadron called the triarii, whereas the Punic fleet had all ships in a line. The battle opened well, and the leader of the Punic fleet, Hamilcar Barca, father of Hannibal Barca, had set a trap. The Roman legions I and II charged the thinner line, which generally was because the ships seemed further apart. The trap was sprung when Hamilcar retreated the thin part of the line, allowed the Romans to chase, and closed the gap. However, the corvus came to the rescue again.

    The Punic ships, tired and weary, began to flee from the back of the line (the trapped Roman forces). The other legions, however, held, and a squadron of ships led by Hanno began to charge the triarii section of the Roman line. However, the once trapped legions of the Romans had been freed, and charged to relieve the triarii. They succeeded, and the Punic ships fell apart.

    It is widely believed that the corvus caused the battle to turn, but morale could have played a part. The Punic ships, although they had trapped the Romans', began to disintegrate. The other legions fought amongst themselves, but the disadvantage was that the ships were no longer in a line, but four groups. The ships on both sides fought bravely, but the Romans became victorious and won the largest sea battle in history.

    Although, later in the war, the Romans lost many ships due to storms and stupidity, the Punic forces had received the most damage, and had been ultimately destroyed by the newly invented Roman ships. I conclude that the war at sea had allowed the Romans beat the Carthaginians at their own game, and this meant that the Punic ships and armies had no advantage whatsoever, except for discipline and training, showed by Xanthippus in the Battle of Tunic. If the Carthaginians had learnt and adapted as the Romans had, they could have had a fighting chance. However, they didn't and were ultimately too tired to fight back. The First Punic War was won, and at a huge cost to the Carthaginians.
    mmm , you forgot to say many and many things about first punic war

  12. #12
    Vicarius
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    Default Re: Was the loss of the First Punic War due to marine disasters?

    Quinqueremes and Quadriremes (pentereis and tetrareis) did not, in all probability, have 5 or 4 layers of oarsmen. Such a ship would simply be impossible to row. Most likely, the number refers to the amount of rowers on each set of oars, and these ships would have three layers of oarsmen. In a ship with three banks of oars, a set of oars would be three oars. That means that a qaudrireme would have 2 oars manned by 1 rower and 1 oar manned by 2. The quinquereme would have 2 oars manned by 2 rowers and 1 oar manned by 1.
    We cannot know for sure, but this seems most likely.

    Edit II: Another possible design for the quadrireme was that it had two layers of oars, and that each oar was manned by 2 men. This seems likely as the quadrireme was lower than the quinquereme according to some ancient sources.

    Edit: I just saw another mistake in your essay: you say that it was Hamilcar Barca, the father of Hannibal Barca, who was the commander of the carthaginian fleet at Ecnomus, but that isn't correct; it was another Hamilcar. Hamilcar Barca was a commander of land armies.
    Last edited by Mathias; March 26, 2008 at 06:26 AM.
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