Regions - a different approach

[Ryker]

I know that new regions, towns etc. can't be usefully created due to the "annoying black overlay"/connectivity problems with that,
but I was wondering if regions can be generally created, even if they have no visible land mass (and towns, farms etc.) attached to them
or if there is such a thing as a region maximum preventing their creation.

Here are my thoughts what they could be used for:

a) Regions without land could be treated as a "title" a faction might own, like a "Duchy of Lorraine" or a "Kingdom of Sicily",
paying the faction a appanage trough their town wealth/ basic farming and as a trade-able item for peace and money as well
as completing existing regions and historically correct changes of victory conditions - "Schleswig" and "Holstein" instead of
"Denmark" as an example for Prussia.

b) Regions like the "House of Anjou" (for France) could serve as a temporary Capital for at least the major factions to avoid a complete wipe-out,
leaving room for peace negotiations.

c) Additional sub mods are possible: You could be the King of England, owning Wales and Crown Lands, allied to Ireland and Scotland, trying to
defeat Cromwell without owning a region on the map or being able to recruit new units - but replenish the old ones.

So let me know what you think and thanks for all the work you've done so far

[Ryker]

Since I'm on it:

what does the value I marked in the attached jpeg stand for:

Prestige? Desire to own it? Both?

[Sogdog]

Sounds good. Good luck.

[Ryker]

Thanks for that.

If my ESF editor would always crash when I try to do something in regions.esf...

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at EsfEditor.Parser.TitleParser.TitlesInValues(List`1 vals, Boolean& found)
at EsfEditor.Parser.TitleParser.GetTitle(IEsfNode node, List`1& children)
at EsfEditor.Forms.EsfEditorForm.treeView_AfterExpand(Object sender, TreeViewEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.OnAfterExpand(TreeViewEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.TvnExpanded(NMTREEVIEW* nmtv)
at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.WmNotify(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5444 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
EsfEditor 1.4.8
Assembly Version: 1.4.8.0
Win32 Version: 1.4.8.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Matthias/Desktop/ETW%20MOD/EsfEditor%201.4.8/EsfEditor%201.4.826111.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
uwqjmvh_
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

[Ryker]

or startpos.esf:

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at EsfEditor.Parser.TitleParser.TitlesInValues(List`1 vals, Boolean& found)
at EsfEditor.Parser.TitleParser.GetTitle(IEsfNode node, List`1& children)
at EsfEditor.Forms.EsfEditorForm.treeView_AfterExpand(Object sender, TreeViewEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.OnAfterExpand(TreeViewEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.TvnExpanded(NMTREEVIEW* nmtv)
at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.WmNotify(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5444 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
EsfEditor 1.4.8
Assembly Version: 1.4.8.0
Win32 Version: 1.4.8.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Matthias/Desktop/ETW%20MOD/EsfEditor%201.4.8/EsfEditor%201.4.826111.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
ozw7rmuf
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

[Ryker]

OK, I'm using ESF editor 1.4.6 now, seems to allow me to edit a save without crashes.

So what all needs to be modified?

startpos/..../world/regions/regions array
startpos/.../cai_interface/cai_world/regions
startpos/.../cai_interface/cai_world/region_boundaries

esf/.../theatre_and_region_keys/region_keys
esf/.../region_data/regions

I played around with it but got nothing but crashes so far.

[madrush]

any luck yet? if u may find anything about region creation contact fortes, he made the world map....well about 80% of the world by making land masses and removing the large black cast over the map

[Ryker]

no nothing yet, but thanks, I'll write him a PM.

[Flikitos]

It is useless to write to Fortes, and there is already a team which is searching for adding new regions (ETW WorkShop), get a look here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=355187

[Ryker]

My progress so far:

ESF_editor 1.4.8 crashes on modifying any value
ESF_editor 1.4.6 let's me modify but screws up the savegames, so I didn't try anything serious.
ESF_editor 1.4.5 works for startpos.esf and reginons.esf, but is so slow that I can't open a few things at a time. opening pathfinding.esf and trade_routes.esf

So I got i little sidetracked with figuring out what esf editor to use (the first two are for shogun, I believe)
on the one side and something that makes me believe I found the reason for the naval bug (_IF_ I'm the first, but I didn't read anything about it anywhere else),
so I will concentrate on the easy bug thingy (see below) to contribute something to this forum and it's members, but am of course still open about suggestions,
especially about the esf editor problem.

[uanime5]

I know that new regions, towns etc. can't be usefully created due to the "annoying black overlay"/connectivity problems with that,
but I was wondering if regions can be generally created, even if they have no visible land mass (and towns, farms etc.) attached to them
or if there is such a thing as a region maximum preventing their creation.

The black overlay doesn't exist. I used to think that the map was covered in a black layer to hide the regions underneath but after tools were developed to open the stpi and stpd files it was found that the map and black overlay were part of the same layer. So you don't have to remove the black overlay to see more regions, you have to colour it in. Currently Fortes is doing this.

See this thread for more details:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=416853

The main problem with creating more regions is that there isn't anywhere to create them as ETW contains many regions outside the visible map, such as China and Hausa. It may be easier to use these regions than try to create more regions but to do this you'll need to add a settlement to these regions. I've never tried adding a settlement to a region without a settlement so I don't know if it's possible.

My progress so far:

ESF_editor 1.4.8 crashes on modifying any value
ESF_editor 1.4.6 let's me modify but screws up the savegames, so I didn't try anything serious.
ESF_editor 1.4.5 works for startpos.esf and reginons.esf, but is so slow that I can't open a few things at a time. opening pathfinding.esf and trade_routes.esf

So I got i little sidetracked with figuring out what esf editor to use (the first two are for shogun, I believe)
on the one side and something that makes me believe I found the reason for the naval bug (_IF_ I'm the first, but I didn't read anything about it anywhere else),
so I will concentrate on the easy bug thingy (see below) to contribute something to this forum and it's members, but am of course still open about suggestions,
especially about the esf editor problem.

Try esf total editor
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=416583

[Ryker]

The black overlay doesn't exist. I used to think that the map was covered in a black layer to hide the regions underneath but after tools were developed to open the stpi and stpd files it was found that the map and black overlay were part of the same layer. So you don't have to remove the black overlay to see more regions, you have to colour it in. Currently Fortes is doing this.

See this thread for more details:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=416853

That's good news. To bad that extracting-application there doesn't work for me eighter but that's really not a big problem:
knowing my drawing skills I don't need to use that anytime soon.

The main problem with creating more regions is that there isn't anywhere to create them as ETW contains many regions outside the visible map, such as China and Hausa. It may be easier to use these regions than try to create more regions but to do this you'll need to add a settlement to these regions. I've never tried adding a settlement to a region without a settlement so I don't know if it's possible.

I thought about using an existing region too, briefly. Once I got the tools working I'll get on that.
The downside is, however, that these regions are not in Europe.

Try esf total editor
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=416583

1.4.3 works fine
regardsless I'll look into that converter tool as well. I tried to convertstartpos.esf but it cut me short and ended with an error message.


Thanks for your help.

[Ryker]

Here's the error message. seems to be the same for different esf:

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.IO.DirectoryNotFoundException: Exception from HRESULT: 0x800A004C (CTL_E_PATHNOTFOUND)
at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.LateBinding.InternalLateCall(Object o, Type objType, String name, Object[] args, String[] paramnames, Boolean[] CopyBack, Boolean IgnoreReturn)
at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.NewLateBinding.LateCall(Object Instance, Type Type, String MemberName, Object[] Arguments, String[] ArgumentNames, Type[] TypeArguments, Boolean[] CopyBack, Boolean IgnoreReturn)
at TEE.Form1.Button3_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) in C:\Users\Eg\Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\TEE\TEE\Form1.vb:line 138
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5444 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework64/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
TEE
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Matthias/Desktop/ETW%20MOD/EsfTotal%20Editor%20Release/EsfTotal%20Editor%20Release/TEE.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 8.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 8.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5420 (Win7SP1.050727-5400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

[Ryker]

I still haven't tried anything in the ESFs, but...

So I got i little sidetracked with [...] something that makes me believe I found the reason for the naval bug (_IF_ I'm the first, but I didn't read anything about it anywhere else)

... least, some progress in that department: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...65#post9557365