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Thread: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

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    Default [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries


    an elaboration by Constantius - made for AoD2

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    Sassanid king hunting. Silver plate with gold decoration.
    Bibliotheque Nat.,Cabinet des Medailles, Paris, France



    Fortress Dara



    Joshua the stylite (309.12-310.3)
    (505CE) The leaders of the Roman army informed the emperor that the troops were being greatly harmed because they didn't have a city located on the frontier. For whenever the Romans made a sortie from Tella or from Amida to make a sweep against raiders in the 'Arab, they they were in constant fear, wherever they camped ,of deceit of enemies. And again if they happened to encounter forces which outnumbered them, and they determined to retreat, they had to endure great fatigue since there was no city neasrby in which to seek shelter. And because of this the emperor commanded that a wall be built around the town of Dara, which is situated on the frontier. Stone mason from all over Syria were selected and they went down there and were building it. The Persians howerver , were making sorties from Nisibis and disrupting their work. On accoubnt of this Pharazman left Edessa and went down and settled in Amida, and he would go out to those who were building to asssist them.

    Summer 502CE Kavadh I invaded Roman Armenia and captured the city of Amida (503) but soon found themselves on the defensive. After seeking a truce in 506, during the negociations, both the Roman and the Persian s Arab allies continued raiding on each others border towns, and the Romans took measures to fortify their borders.

    Macellinus Comes a 518
    Dara, a city of this kind, founded in Mesopotamia
    Dara, which is a certain estate situated 60 miles south of the city of Amida and 15 miles west of the town of Nisibispaid its proceeds to the church of Amida . The emperor Anastasius thus bought the buildings of this modest village for a fixed sum with the intension of founding a city there, and he immediately sent first class craftsmen thereand gave instructions for it to be built. He then put Calliopius , later Patriarch of Antioch, in charge of this project. Undoudtedly with admirable perception this man marked out a hilladjacentto a plain by creating a furrow with a light hoe- in order to place the foundations- and on all sides he guarded it with the strongest walls, which were built up ot this zone. He also included a river, which is called Cordissus from the estate next to which it originates and winds its way murmuring along; at the fifth milestoneit divides the same hill and the new city, gliding forward and forming a mouth on both sides. After it had been decorated with further public buildings, he allowed the city to keep the previous village name. The huge watchtower of this city, which was constructed in an elevated location, and was a continuation of the walls, was a tower called the 'Herculean tower' and looked up to Nisibis to the east and back to Amida to the north of it.

    Both writers mention the importance of a suitable fortress in Mesopotamia, and the emperor Anastasius made a wise decision in fortifying; Edessa, Theodosioupolis, Amida, Batnai and of course Dara ( even though under the treaty of 441CE, building fortresses on the border was illegal) In all previous conflicts the Romans had lacked protection and the Persian had utilised the fortified Nisibis. The sources indicate the speed of which Dara was built, in order that the Persians (who were still -in the early Sixth C, occupied with Huns on their eastern border)from interferring with construction.
    From this point on the city of Anastasioupolis (Ἀναστασιούπολις), became one of the most important cities in northern Mesopotamia. Later the fortifications were increased under Justinian, and the city became known as Ivstiniana Nea.
    At every peace negociation of the sixth century Dara is mentioned and the Romans resist calls by the Persians to tear it down, but eventually conceeded the removal of its military governor.

    Sources: Procopius De Bella Persico
    Calliopius see Croke 1984:86-8
    Croke 2001 and 1995 for Count Marcellinus
    Dignas.B and Winter.E. 2008.
    Collins.R. 1991
    Greatrex and Lieu, 2002:88-91





    Procopius Caesarensis AD 500 – AD 565
    historian of the 6th century, writing the Wars of Justinian, the Buildings of Justinian and the celebrated Secret History.
    made by Jermagon - member of AoD2


    Peace of 522



    The peace treaty of 522 was essentially a means for the Persians to end the war and for Kadvādh I (or Qobād I) to secure the succession of his son Xusro. The Persian were undergoing a great deal of difficulties in maintaining their borders at this point- the war with the Romans , but also the continuing attacks by nomadic tribes on her north eastern borders.
    So in 522 Kadvādh I approached the Romans Procopius tells us:

    It seemed best to him to reconcile with the Romans and put an end to the war and the reasons for the war, on condition that Xusro became the adopted son of the emperor Justin because this would be the only way to guarantee his rule.He therefore sent envoys and a letter concerning this matter to the emperor Justin in Constantinople. The letter read as follows:' We have suffered injustice from the Romans, this much you know yourself, but I have decided to abandon all accusations against you altogether because I have come to the conclusion that those men are the greatest victors who although they have justice on their side willingly come off second best and give in to their friends. However, I am asking you a favour in return for this , would establish close kinship and as a natural consequence good-will not only between the two of us but also between all subjects on both sides and which would thereby should allow the blessings of peace to flourish. I ask therefore that you, make my son Xurso , who will be the successor to my throne, your adopted son.' When this letter was brought to the emperor Justin he himself was full of great joy and also Justinian, the emperors nephew , who was indeed expected expected to receive the throne from him. And in haste they did everything to create a formal document of adoption , as is the law among the Romans , and they would have done so if Proclus had not stopped them....
    Procopius , De Bello Persico I.II.6-11 and 29-30
    For Procopius as a relaibale source see :Greatex 1984; Cameron 1985 152-70

    At the beginning of the fifth century the Roman emperor Arcadius asked the Persian emperor Yazdgard I to assume the guardianship over Theodosius , now in a similar diplomatic ploy, the Persian King asked the Roman emperor to adopt his son Xusro, thereby guarding him against other claimaints to the Persian throne. Negotiations failed to reach a deal concerning the adoption though.
    Sources: Procopius De Bella Persico
    Dignas.B and Winter.E. 2008






    Jordan preserved several Byzantine mosaics, made in the 6th century by local artists who founded an art movement. One of these famous relics is the Palestinian map in the Saint-George of Madaba church.



    War in 540


    They (the envoys) appeared before Xusrō I and spoke as follows, 'As a rule, it is ther case that all other envoys, O king, join an embassy for the sake of their own advantage, but we have been sent by Vitiges, the king of the Goths and of the Italians, so we speak on behalf of your empire; and now view the following as if said to you in person. I f someone said, bluntly, that you, O king, had given up your kingdom and all subjets to Justinian, he would rightly say so. For he is a man who by nature strives for change and loves what does not belong to him at all, who is not able to keep things as they are, who has therefore tried to seize the whole earth and has captured by desire to take for himself each and evry rule. He therefore decided (since he was neither strong enough to go against the Persians on his own nor capable of attacking others while at war with the Persians) to deceive you with peace, while he subjegated the remaining powers by force and prepared a huge force against your empire. Already having destroyed the Vandals he subjegated the Maurusians while the Goths stayed out of his waybecause of a so-called friendship, but noe he comes against us with huge sums of money and alot of men. It is clear that- if he can destroy utter;y also the Goths - he will march against Persia together with us and those whom he has enslaved already, and neither will he respectthe name of frienship nor will he be ashamed with regard to the oaths that have been sworn.......'
    Procopius, De Bello Persico II.24-II

    In the previous passage Procopius was describing the envoys sent by Vitiges, to try and persuade the Persian King- Xusrō I to attack the Romans. The envoys were received at Ktesiphon and attempted to warn the king of the dangers of Justinians foreign policy, they warned that surely Persia was next ( the policy Renovatio imperii - was to restore all former Roman provinces)
    Xusrō was persuaded and used disputes between the Ghassanids and Lahmids as a pretext for the invasion. A letter sent by Justinian failed to convice him otherwise. The following spring 540 the Sassanids invaded Roman territory, it is again Procopius that we turn to for an account of what happened see:

    Procopius, De Bello Persico II.5.1-4
    The aim of the invasion seems to of been the same, as that of Shapur in the early third century- aquick sharp thrust into the Roman eastern heartland- he capured Soura, marched through Sergipolis and Hierapolis (who seem to have paid tribute to avoid being attacked) and he headed for Antioch, destroying the city of Beroia on the way. June 540 Antioch was pu undersiege and fell in a few days
    Needless to say Xusrō gained a lot of notereity for his victories and when he returned to Persain territory he had a new city built- Veh -Antiok-Xusrō , to mark the occasion the cities name translates as Xusrō made this city better than Antioch.
    The aim of the invasion was never territorial gain, but plunder. plaque and the Hephthalites seem to be the reasons behind a peace treaty concluded in 557




    Flavius Petrus Sabbatius Iustinianus
    Our Lord Justinian - permanent Augustus (DN IVS PP AVG)
    made by Jermagon - member of AoD2

    [picuture needs a new upload]
    Flavius Belisarius - Βελισάριος AD 500 – AD 565
    Dux Mesopotamiae, later Magister Militum per Orientem et Particius
    made by Jermagon


    Credits

    Intellectual and literary property belongs to the author - in this case Constantius.
    The elaboration may be used for other threads, mod-forums or internet pages - however, a written request is essential and a matter of courtesy.
    Drawings/Reconstructions were made by Jermagon.
    Bibliography:
    Procopius De Bella Persico
    Calliopius see Croke 1984:86-8
    Croke 2001 and 1995 for Count Marcellinus
    Dignas.B and Winter.E. 2008.
    Collins.R. 1991
    Greatrex and Lieu, 2002:88-91


    I will just add these two links here, for anyone interested to read: http://www.archive.org/stream/TheRef...forms_djvu.txt
    http://www.archive.org/stream/TheOri...z_nax_djvu.txt
    Last edited by Pompeius Magnus; April 26, 2012 at 07:33 AM.


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    Default Re: Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    A well prepared elaboration Constantius.
    +rep

    And it shows once more the importance of this city (even if it was not particular huge).
    Another reason to create a customized settlemet for Dara.

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    what happened with Dara? did Romans managed to keep it or they lost it like Nisibis?


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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Quote Originally Posted by juvenus View Post
    what happened with Dara? did Romans managed to keep it or they lost it like Nisibis?
    They won i think...

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Yes, the big battle of Dara was won by the Romans
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dara

    The Battle was one of Belisarius most important steps in his career.
    It is also reported that Belisar ordered to form a kind of Phalanx. Because it was emphatic alluded that it was a Phalanx it is suggested that we see here a first step of a formation which is described years later in the Strategikon as a "normal" Roman formation. So, the Belisarian formation was probably not just a metaphor (as made in several roman scripts) - it was perhaps a real pre-byzantine (macedonian-like) Phalanx.

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Wasn't there also a case when Byzantine cataphracts dismounted and formed a pike phalanx in one of the Lazic wars?

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Yes, from beginning of the Justinian era (and the Lazic wars are located in the 540s and 550s) it seems that the spear Phalanx became more and more common. So, during the time of Maurice it was probably a very normal formation. In a common meaning also a Legion is a phalanx (or any kind of troops forming a straight line).
    But in the Strategikon it is clearly described how to hold the spears in the first and second and third line and so on. I will post some sentences of the Strategikon later.

    edit:
    Without reading the complete Strategikon now for finding a good source I saw a nice description in the chapter of my favorite formation - called Convex
    My elaboration about this formation is lcoated here:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436789

    The accompanying text from the Strategikon gives some informations about the front line.
    book XII chapter 7
    [...] if the enemy advances [...] the infantry should close the ranks in the regular way. The first, second and third men in each file form a foulkon, interlocking their shields, fix their spears firmly in the ground, holding them inclined forward and straight outside their shields, so that anyone who dares come too close will quickly experience them [...]

    and
    [...]If the enemy should try to move against the cavalry from the rear, something they generally attempt, the infantry divides into a double phalanx. (difallangiam) [...]

    The text also describes that the third men is nearly standing upright. That suggests that the first 2 men are kneeled down. The Convex is a static formation - not used to move. On advance the spear of the first 3 ranks is hold straight forward.

    the upper descriped formation is also matching some drawings of the Strategikon - even if just 2 rows are included - but it clearly shows that the second line is holding the spear straight on. The drawing below is a copy of the Strategikon.
    Book XII part B appendix of chapters 17-20

    Last edited by Pompeius Magnus; May 14, 2011 at 11:52 AM.

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    ah good, thanks for clarification.


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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries....continued

    The Peace of 522
    The peace treaty of 522 was essentially a means for the Persians to end the war and for Kadvādh I (or Qobād I) to secure the succession of his son Xusro. The Persian were undergoing a great deal of difficulties in maintaining their borders at this point- the war with the Romans , but also the continuing attacks by nomadic tribes on her north eastern borders.
    So in 522 Kadvādh I approached the Romans Procopius tells us:
    It seemed best to him to reconcile with the Romans and put an end to the war and the reasons for the war, on condition that Xusro became the adopted son of the emperor Justin because this would be the only way to guarantee his rule.He therefore sent envoys and a letter concerning this matter to the emperor Justin in Constantinople. The letter read as follows:' We have suffered injustice from the Romans, this much you know yourself, but I have decided to abandon all accusations against you altogether because I have come to the conclusion that those men are the greatest victors who although they have justice on their side willingly come off second best and give in to their friends. However, I am asking you a favour in return for this , would establish close kinship and as a natural consequence good-will not only between the two of us but also between all subjects on both sides and which would thereby should allow the blessings of peace to flourish. I ask therefore that you, make my son Xurso , who will be the successor to my throne, your adopted son.' When this letter was brought to the emperor Justin he himself was full of great joy and also Justinian, the emperors nephew , who was indeed expected expected to receive the throne from him. And in haste they did everything to create a formal document of adoption , as is the law among the Romans , and they would have done so if Proclus had not stopped them....
    Procopius , De Bello Persico I.II.6-11 and 29-30
    For Procopius as a relaibale source see :Greatex 1984; Cameron 1985 152-70

    At the beginning of the fifth century the Roman emperor Arcadius asked the Persian emperor Yazdgard I to assume the guardianship over Theodosius , now in a similar diplomatic ploy, the Persian King asked the Roman emperor to adopt his son Xusro, thereby guarding him against other claimaints to the Persian throne. Negotiations failed to reach a deal concerning the adoption though.
    Sources: Procopius De Bella Persico
    Dignas.B and Winter.E. 2008

    EDIT: have copied all information to post #1, so you can delete PM if you wish.Cheers
    The War of 540-62 (SOON)
    Last edited by Constantius; July 11, 2011 at 04:09 PM. Reason: MADE A FEW SPELLING MISTAKES


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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    As for Dara, didn't Anushiravan take it in 578 or 579?

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocroach the great View Post
    As for Dara, didn't Anushiravan take it in 578 or 579?
    Be patient I am coming to that, anyway I thought the army was under Khosrau I and fell in I think 574


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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Constantius View Post
    Be patient I am coming to that, anyway I thought the army was under Khosrau I and fell in I think 574
    Khosrau I = Anushiravan (of the immortal spirit)

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries




    The War of 540
    They (the envoys) appeared before Xusrō I and spoke as follows, 'As a rule, it is ther case that all other envoys, O king, join an embassy for the sake of their own advantage, but we have been sent by Vitiges, the king of the Goths and of the Italians, so we speak on behalf of your empire; and now view the following as if said to you in person. I f someone said, bluntly, that you, O king, had given up your kingdom and all subjets to Justinian, he would rightly say so. For he is a man who by nature strives for change and loves what does not belong to him at all, who is not able to keep things as they are, who has therefore tried to seize the whole earth and has captured by desire to take for himself each and evry rule. He therefore decided (since he was neither strong enough to go against the Persians on his own nor capable of attacking others while at war with the Persians) to deceive you with peace, while he subjegated the remaining powers by force and prepared a huge force against your empire. Already having destroyed the Vandals he subjegated the Maurusians while the Goths stayed out of his waybecause of a so-called friendship, but noe he comes against us with huge sums of money and alot of men. It is clear that- if he can destroy utter;y also the Goths - he will march against Persia together with us and those whom he has enslaved already, and neither will he respectthe name of frienship nor will he be ashamed with regard to the oaths that have been sworn.......'
    Procopius, De Bello Persico II.24-II

    In the previous passage Procopius was describing the envoys sent by Vitiges, to try and persuade the Perisian King- Xusrō I to attack the Romans. The envoys were received at Ktesiphon and attempted to warn the king of the danfers of Justinians foreign policy, they warned thast surely Persia was next ( the policy Renovatio imperii - was to restore all former Roman provinces)
    Xusrō was persuaded and used disputes between the Ghassanids and Lahmids as a pretext for the invasion. A letter sent by Justinian failed to convice him otherwise. The following spring 540 the Sassanids invaded Roman territory, it is again Procopius that we turn to for an account of what happened see:
    Procopius, De Bello Persico II.5.1-4
    The aim of the invasio seems to of been the same, as that of Shapur in the early third century- aquick sharp thrust into the Roman eastern heartland- he capured Soura, marched through Sergipolis and Hierapolis (who seem to have paid tribute to avoid being attacked) and he headed for Antioch, destroying the city of Beroia on the way. June 540 Antioch was pu undersiege and fell in a few days
    Needless to say Xusrō gained a lot of notereity for his victories and when he returned to Persain territory he had a new city built- Veh -Antiok-Xusrō , to mark the occasion the cities name translates as Xusrō made this city better than Antioch.
    The aim of the invasion was never terrotorial gain, but plunder. plaque and the Hephthalites seem to be the reasons behind a peace treaty concluded in 557


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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Wait, Khosrau was warned of the dangers posed by Rome, and resorted to simply plundering some unprotected cities? Shouldn't he have tried to damage Rome's economy or military power?

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    @Constans: do u intend to go to the very end of the Romano-Persian struggle (when Persia succumbed under the Arabs)? so far, the thread grows nicely.


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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    That's my intention Juvenus, I hope to give a little background to some of the less informed. I always like to feel fully immersed when I play culturally, politically etc I will also cover mayor battles and peace treaties, and also some background to Armenia and the Arabs if I get time. I was also thinking of starting a similar post regarding the Lombard's, Saxons, Franks and Goths

    EDIT: All information moved to post #1
    Last edited by Constantius; July 13, 2011 at 01:45 PM.


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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Any chance of someone answering my question?

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Sorry mate, I haven't had time to give a full and deserving answer, but Xusrō acheived what he needed- both empires would carry out such raids of this type- essentially he got great presidge, which in turns secures his position and got vital funds to pay off the Hephthalite tribute. He could also extend the Persian inluence in the area.


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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    @Constantius
    a phantastic elaboration. Thank you very much. +rep

    If you agree I could change the font of post 1 and include some grafics of the head-lines - like in the other [Historiae]-threads. Then the design is matching all other threads. Just a cosmetic feature.

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    Default Re: [Info AoD2/AoD3] Romano/Persian Relations in the Sixth and Seventh Centuries

    Yes that would be good PM, I do intend to complete as much as possible, and do another concerning Goths and Lombards


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