Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: New Faction: Burgundians

  1. #1

    Default New Faction: Burgundians

    See Burgundians
    Burgundii were one of Scandinavian tribes that descended into Gaul after the 3rd century. They crushed Frank Foederati and invaded the country in 406 AD.\n\nThey established their capital in Worms (413). In 411, the Burgundian king Gundahar or "Gundicar" set up a puppet emperor, Jovinus, in cooperation with Goar, king of the Alans. With the authority of the Gallic emperor that he controlled, Gundahar settled on the left bank of the Rhine (the Roman side) between the river Lauter and the Nahe. Burgundian raids into Roman Upper Gallia Belgica became intolerable and were ruthlessly brought to an end in 436, when the Roman general Aėtius called in Hun mercenaries who overwhelmed the Rhineland kingdom (with its capital at the old Celtic Roman settlement of Borbetomagus Worms in 437. Gundahar was killed in the fighting, reportedly along with the majority of the Burgundian tribe. The destruction of Worms and the Burgundian kingdom by the Huns became the subject of heroic legends that were afterwards incorporated in the Nibelungenlied, Burgundii and Alans were crushed by Roman general Etius and by the Huns (435-437). The Burgundii accepted Christianity, established their Lex Burgundionum, and formed the First Kingdom of Burgundy, which at its height covered SE France and reached as far south as Arles and W Switzerland.


    http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=15445

    -New Vandalorum Mod units will be shown as below..Description and
    Units by midnite will be from the represented unit cards below
    from the Julianus unit cards and his mod:
    INVASIO BARBARORVM : SOMNIVM APOSTATAE IVLIANI
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=253


    Burgundi Gasinder
    A warlord leads a personal guard of able and fierce warriors. These men are an elite force, ready to be thrown into the fight at the moment of decision.\n\nGiven that he owes his authority to personal bravery as much as any tribal position, a warlord has to be willing to risk his own life in personal combat and stake the outcome of a battle on his own skills as a fighter as much as his grasp of command. A wise leader, therefore, makes sure that he has the best chance possible of coming through a fight alive so that he can inspire his men by example as well as by his mere presence. Politics and warfare mean that he must not just triumph, he must do so publicly and in brave style.


    Cnihte
    Cnihte are lancer cavalry best used to charge into enemy formations in an attempt to break them through shock and impact. They are vulnerable if used against spear-armed infantry.\n\nThe cavalry lance is a weapon that puts all the speed and weight of a man, his armour, and his horse into a single very sharp point. Given the long reach of the weapon, it is very dangerous: a man-sized target can be run through regardless of how much armour he is wearing. However, once a rider has struck home with his lance, he is then vulnerable to counter attacks from any distance closer than the point. A cavalry charge with lances is an immediate event. If enemies are not killed outright, the best tactic for lancers is to break off, reform and attempt another charge. Staying to fight is an excellent way of dying!



    Faramanni Cavalry
    Faramanni Cavalry are light cavalrymen, best able to harass and pursue enemies rather than charge home. They are also useful in driving off enemy skirmishers and missile troops.\n\nAs a people, the Germans are natural-born infantrymen. They prefer to fight with their feet solidly planted on good ground, fighting shield-to-shield against their enemies. They are, however, wise enough to realise that some force is required to screen their stolid infantry warriors before battle is joined, and to keep the enemy from outflanking them too easily after the fight starts. This is why a wise German warlord prefers to have a few horsemen under his command: the risk of being ridden down keeps the enemy from being too bold!


    Noblemen (Comitatus)
    These men are nobles of the tribe, called Optimates by the romans. These men form the comitatus, or sacred retinue around a Warlord or King. As such they are well equipped and trained. These men would usually have a sword in addition to any spears or javelins and could either form up in the front ranks of a warband or form the nucleus of any “reserve” body. This man in particular wears a mail shirt and is armed with the heavy throwing spear, the angon and a sword.


    Burgundi Heavy Spear
    These men are more heavily armed either being of a higher status within the tribe therefore being able to better equip themselves or using equipment either captured from the battlefield of from a roman fabricae. These men are also more likely to have received better training than the faramanni and so would be positioned at the front of the warband to receive the initial charge from the enemy. These men are armed with a short thrusting spear and the heavy throwing weapon, the Angon. The Angon is a throwing spear, a javelin with a blade shape ranging from the normal leaf to barbed ends. \n\nLike the Pilum, the Angon used mild steel to form the head making it difficult to withdraw from shields and bodies, giving it the same effect in battle as the Roman Pilum. This resemblance leads many experts to believe that the Angon is modelled after the Roman weapon. Since the Germans were very keen on imitating almost anything Roman, and since large numbers of German warriors were serving with the Roman army since the fourth century, the angon could very well be the Germanized pilum; though still others argue on a more stone age influence.\n\nThe one tactic that they can employ to great effect is the 'hedgehog' or schiltron, when they form a solid circle of men all facing outwards presenting a ring of spear points to the enemy. They can't move when holding ground like this, but any horsemen will dash themselves to pieces against the hedgehog's spines!\n\nThey are, of course, vulnerable to missile fire at all times and other foot troops if caught out of formation. This man is armed with a short thrusting spear and angon.


    Faramanne Warband
    Faramanni are the backbone of any German Army, raised from among the young and low-status men of a tribe. They are capable defensive fighters, but they should not be mistaken for full-blooded warriors!\n\nEach man is given a spear, some brief training, and sent into battle to learn the trade of war while fighting or to die in the process. Their spears make them good against cavalry, but they can lack the discipline of more 'civilized' troops. They use a variety of missile weapons which include javelins, throwing axes and a heavy throwing spear called the Angon. The Angon is a throwing spear, a javelin with a blade shape ranging from the normal leaf to barbed ends. \n\nLike the Pilum, the Angon used mild steel to form the head making it difficult to withdraw from shields and bodies, giving it the same effect in battle as the Roman pilum. This resemblance leads many experts to believe that the angon is modelled after the Roman weapon. Since the Germans were very keen on imitating almost anything Roman, and since large numbers of German warriors were serving with the Roman army since the fourth century, the angon could very well be the Germanized pilum; though still others argue on a more stone age influence.\n\nThe one tactic that they can employ to great effect is the 'hedgehog' or schiltron, when they form a solid circle of men all facing outwards presenting a ring of spear points to the enemy. They can't move when holding ground like this, but any horsemen will dash themselves to pieces against the hedgehog's spines!\n\nThey are, of course, vulnerable to missile fire at all times and other foot troops if caught out of formation. This man is armed with a short thrusting spear and angon.


    Burgundian Chosen Archers
    Chosen Archers are highly prized for their skills as excellent bowmen, being fleet of foot and expert hunters. They are armed with self bows and melee weapons, making them a useful addition to any barbarian army.\n\nAs chosen men, they are proud to be numbered among the best fighters to be found in their respective tribes and clans, a fact that makes them unlikely to run and lose face in the eyes of their fellows. If they have a weakness it is that the self bow is not a great weapon, being better suited to hunting than war. A single length of springy wood, it is nowhere near as powerful as the compound bow used by some from the east, but it is less likely to be damaged by wet conditions.\n\nVeteran Archers are always a welcome sight to a warlord, as they have the flexibility to be both archers and melee infantry and make a reasonable fist of both tasks.



    Burgundi Skirmisher
    Javelins are one of the most basic weapons, a long wooden shaft, tipped with a point of bone, stone, or most desirably steel, these weapons can also serve as makeshift spears when the need arises.\n\nSkirmishers are best employed to harrass enemies and thin their ranks with missile volleys before the main battle is joined. They are capable of fighting hand-to-hand, but this is not their strength and against anyone other than other skirmishers they will suffer disproportionate casualties.\n\nThey carry little war gear other than their weapons, giving them their speed over rough terrain.


    Waldmanne
    Bowmen are light bowmen who can also, in a crisis, fight in hand-to-hand combat. Drawn from among the forest-dwellers and hunting folk, they are experts in using stealth and concealment to close on their prey.\n\nHunting is an important part of life for all the Germanic tribes. It puts food on the table throughout the year - fresh meat is always welcome - and trains young men in some of the arts of war: patience, killing, and a tolerance for blood. These men are useful to any Germanic leader, as his other warriors are often mostly infantry, and the bowman's ability to strike down an enemy at a distance is not one to be lightly discounted.\n\nThey are unarmoured troops, so will not survive for long in melee, or when caught by light cavalry. Their self bow is an adequate weapon, but no match for the compound weapons used by nomads and eastern troops.


    Burgundja Heriban
    'Ban' originally meant a call, i.e. an order, that could refer to anything, but usually meant a call to arms. In carolingian times, the terms 'Ban' (regular troops) and 'Heriban' (levies) changed to exclusively military meaning\n\nMen, no matter how untrained or unready for war, are always useful in battle - the enemy can be weakened simply by having to hack a way through the press of bodies. Forcing peasants to leave the land and fight is cheap and quick even if it does damage the prospects for the next harvest. This is an important consideration when famine may only be one failed harvest away. Still more of a problem is the reluctance of these men to fight well in a situation they neither know nor care about. That said, these men can fight; maybe they are not experts, but every enemy they kill is one less for proper warriors to face down.

    Last edited by Riothamus; May 03, 2011 at 12:26 PM.

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  2. #2

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    great news it willl make really great addition as a faction

  3. #3
    Morfans's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Milan, Italy
    Posts
    484

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    What do we plan for the diplomatical aspects ?

    At the mod starting time, they were formally foederati - however, relationship with Rome were conflicting to the extent that they were tempted to join their ancient foe when Attila moved West.

    Maybe Burgundians should start as allied, but have a faction standing that is actually hostile to Rome - so to force WRE diplomacy to strive hard not to open another front in the North (and fail most of the times) ... Your views ?

    -

  4. #4

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Quote Originally Posted by Morfans View Post
    What do we plan for the diplomatical aspects ?

    At the mod starting time, they were formally foederati - however, relationship with Rome were conflicting to the extent that they were tempted to join their ancient foe when Attila moved West.

    Maybe Burgundians should start as allied, but have a faction standing that is actually hostile to Rome - so to force WRE diplomacy to strive hard not to open another front in the North (and fail most of the times) ... Your views ?

    -
    We have a few very interesting things planned
    Fist the new starting date 436-7AD
    -Yes they were foederati and also the Visigoths so we are going to create a large province/settlement..their capital province and then to give them a foederati look and feel, by placing small pocket provincial settlements around the large capital provincial settlements. They will be several(4-6)tiny enclaves that will be surrounded by a much larger Roman or Roman rebel Provinces

    -As they spead they will engulf the larger provinces as they did historically
    -Diplomcy is tricky for even though they were foederati they never the less too advantage of any Roman crisis to expand and after the death of Aetius the foederati staus was nearly a joke..so more thought needs going here
    Last edited by Riothamus; May 03, 2011 at 12:38 PM.

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  5. #5
    midnite's Avatar Citizen
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    new england area
    Posts
    7,141

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    a few pics of work in progress - Burgundians

    (all are subject to modification)
    Last edited by midnite; May 05, 2011 at 08:30 AM.
    memory of Midnite, Pumpkin, Bear, Pip and Pepper -- 4/2/10, 5/24/10, 11/27/17, 11/11/18 and 1/15/19

    Under the esteemed patronage of Elrond

  6. #6
    ATN's Avatar Civis
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    125

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Sweet.

  7. #7
    Reno Melitensis's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Marsascala, Malta
    Posts
    2,029

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Accoeding to Historians in 411 the Burgundian king Gundahar set up a puppet emperor, Jovinus, in cooperation with Goar, king of the Alans. With the authority of the Gallic emperor that he controlled, Gundahar settled on the left (Roman) bank of the Rhine, between the river Lauter and the Nahe, seizing Vormatia (Worms), Noviomagus (Speyer}, and Argentoratum (Strassburg). Apparently as part of a truce, the Emperor Honorius later officially "granted" them the land. Latter they decided to expand and it seems that the Roman general Aėtius called in Huns mercenaries who overwhelmed the Rhineland kingdom ib 436 or in 437. Gundahar was killed in the fighting, reportedly along with the majority of the Burgundian tribe. So why not keep the date as it is and mod the Burgi in as Roman allies with a scripted event of their rebellion later on. This will give a little time to players to recover from the mess the Empire is in.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Reno Melitensis; May 04, 2011 at 04:45 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Quote Originally Posted by Reno Melitensis View Post
    Accoeding to Historians in 411 the Burgundian king Gundahar set up a puppet emperor, Jovinus, in cooperation with Goar, king of the Alans. With the authority of the Gallic emperor that he controlled, Gundahar settled on the left (Roman) bank of the Rhine, between the river Lauter and the Nahe, seizing Vormatia (Worms), Noviomagus (Speyer}, and Argentoratum (Strassburg). Apparently as part of a truce, the Emperor Honorius later officially "granted" them the land. Latter they decided to expand and it seems that the Roman general Aėtius called in Huns mercenaries who overwhelmed the Rhineland kingdom ib 436 or in 437. Gundahar was killed in the fighting, reportedly along with the majority of the Burgundian tribe. So why not keep the date as it is and mod the Burgi in as Roman allies with a scripted event of their rebellion later on. This will give a little time to players to recover from the mess the Empire is in.

    Cheers
    I plan on displaying foederati pocket settlements to be featured for the three barbarian factions and I don't like how the Vandals are currently set up. I could have moved it to 430-31AD with the Vandals pretty much in the same position but I think(it can) it gets a bit tacky changing the game in any way like that. An emerging factionis one thing but the Burgundi faction within assigned Roman territory is another and with the pocket settlements planned, it need to at this date(436) to start
    Last edited by Riothamus; May 04, 2011 at 07:25 AM.

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  9. #9
    midnite's Avatar Citizen
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    new england area
    Posts
    7,141

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Current Burgundian roster (may be subject to change)

    memory of Midnite, Pumpkin, Bear, Pip and Pepper -- 4/2/10, 5/24/10, 11/27/17, 11/11/18 and 1/15/19

    Under the esteemed patronage of Elrond

  10. #10

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    good one

  11. #11
    Morfans's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Milan, Italy
    Posts
    484

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Quote Originally Posted by THE IBERIAN View Post
    good one

    YEP !

    Midnite, are you going to revise the Romans, when Burgundians are done ?

  12. #12
    midnite's Avatar Citizen
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    new england area
    Posts
    7,141

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Quote Originally Posted by Morfans View Post
    YEP !

    Midnite, are you going to revise the Romans, when Burgundians are done ?
    I want to make some changes to the armor upgrades. The lighter inf units going from little armor to having at least helmets when upgraded. The heavier inf units going to full armor when upgraded. Currently upgrading the units has little effect on the appearance.
    memory of Midnite, Pumpkin, Bear, Pip and Pepper -- 4/2/10, 5/24/10, 11/27/17, 11/11/18 and 1/15/19

    Under the esteemed patronage of Elrond

  13. #13
    midnite's Avatar Citizen
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    new england area
    Posts
    7,141

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    added more units to the burgundian roster. So far 9 faction units, 2 garrison and 1 merc unit.

    Burgundian Gallic cavalry (roman foederati) -- still subject to change
    memory of Midnite, Pumpkin, Bear, Pip and Pepper -- 4/2/10, 5/24/10, 11/27/17, 11/11/18 and 1/15/19

    Under the esteemed patronage of Elrond

  14. #14
    Morfans's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Milan, Italy
    Posts
    484

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Quote Originally Posted by midnite View Post
    I want to make some changes to the armor upgrades. The lighter inf units going from little armor to having at least helmets when upgraded. The heavier inf units going to full armor when upgraded. Currently upgrading the units has little effect on the appearance.

    That makes sense.

    Burgundian units are very good.

  15. #15

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Don't the Burgundians already have unique units like their heavy cavalry in CB so you can just port them?

  16. #16
    midnite's Avatar Citizen
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    new england area
    Posts
    7,141

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Quote Originally Posted by justinius View Post
    Don't the Burgundians already have unique units like their heavy cavalry in CB so you can just port them?

    We haVE germanic units such as the franks, frisians and thuringians but no specific burgundian units I beklieve.
    memory of Midnite, Pumpkin, Bear, Pip and Pepper -- 4/2/10, 5/24/10, 11/27/17, 11/11/18 and 1/15/19

    Under the esteemed patronage of Elrond

  17. #17

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    Quote Originally Posted by midnite View Post
    We haVE germanic units such as the franks, frisians and thuringians but no specific burgundian units I beklieve.
    Wait, nevermind. For some reason, I was confusing Burgundians and Thuringians. Weird.

  18. #18
    midnite's Avatar Citizen
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    new england area
    Posts
    7,141

    Default Re: New Faction: Burgundians

    added a warband unit to the burgundians. Sort of a germanic/celtic style of unit. version 1 - may still be subject to change

    memory of Midnite, Pumpkin, Bear, Pip and Pepper -- 4/2/10, 5/24/10, 11/27/17, 11/11/18 and 1/15/19

    Under the esteemed patronage of Elrond

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •