BROKEN CRESCENT 2.3: QUESTIONS and SUGGESTIONS

[wudang_clown]

At that point, you can never recruit them again.

And what turn have you reached?

recruit_pool "koj knights dismounted templar" 1 0.12 1 0 requires factions { france, } and hidden_resource cbr_koj and not event_counter templar 1 and event_counter mongol_em 1 and not event_counter first_turn 1

What happens if you delete "and not event_counter first_turn 1"?

That won't change much, as there is still requirement of event_counter mongol_em 1 to get those Templars.

I've checked EDB and it seems there should rather be:

recruit_pool "koj knights dismounted templar" 1 0.20 1 0 requires factions { france, } and hidden_resource recruit_koj and not event_counter templar 1 and event_counter mongol_em 1 and not event_counter first_turn 1

The red part was missing, so the unit was present in the browser. After and not event_counter first_turn hit 1 it disappeared, as expected. The same problem concerns Templar Knights. I think these two shouldn't be recruitable at the beginning at all. I think that there is a bug, yes, but it only make those two incorrectly visible at the beginning. They should be available only after the Mongol invasion begins. I haven't checked if they indeed appear after the Mongol come onto the scene, though, and I'd appreciate if someone could do that. We would be sure then.

[Martello]

Thanks a lot, guys! It worked perfectly.

[Dago Red]

I think that there is a bug, yes, but it only make those two incorrectly visible at the beginning. They should be available only after the Mongol invasion begins.

Right. The heavy dismounted Templar Knights should NOT be available on the first turn, that would be ahistorical. They come into the arms race aspect of this time and place in history, being the heavies of the Order once they became fully militarized. While I don't know the exact date I think the original BC decision to include these innovations along with the Mongol invasion makes sense.

The regular Templars, however, should be present. The Templars were founded when the Crusaders captured Jerusalem so they have been around for a while now. That's the way it is now (or should be, I don't yet have 2.32).

RBBR fixed the Knights for 2.3, and in my install it's all worked out. Additionally, the regular Templars should not disappear at the Mongol invasion -- (I might have fixed that myself, I cannot recall if rusnmat did that before leaving or not). I would post the lines but I have all this on a separate computer that I cannot get to now. It should work the same for 2.32 I think.

So in short: Templars from game start through to game end. Templar Knights from 1204/5 through to game end.



ps.
The whole point of the KoJ roster is that it's an arms race, while European great helms and coat-of-plates, etc are being created and shipped over they are simultaneously adapting Middle Eastern inventions (though very, very slowly). Dismounted Templar Knights represent new technology from the West. Dismounted Knights of Outremer, for example, represent adaptation of Middle Eastern technology (also fixed and present via RBBR). Both come into the game later, not at the beginning. They are the mid-game heavy units the KoJ needs to survive. The dismounted version in particular are extremely historically accurate, representing a turn towards siege warfare (defending at this point mostly) and avoiding open pitched battles.

pss.
If any knight/heavy unit should disappear at the Mongol invasion from the KoJ roster it should be the Latin Knights whose arms and armor are totally outdated for the 1200's. When the Knights of Outremer come in, they should replace the Latins IMO.

[Martello]

That makes sense - I was actually thinking that the bug may have been the other way. In other words, like wudang_clown said, the Dismounted Templar Knights shouldn't have been available on turn one. I'm on turn 42 right now.

So I guess I better replace the EDB with the backup, then. Although it's very tempting to just keep recruiting Dismounted Templar Knights and Templar Knights before I should be able to.

[wudang_clown]

That "faulty" code is there since 2.02. I've just used quotes, because it wasn't a bug in 2.02 - Templar Knights were available as they are now in higher tier military buildings, but such buildings were not present in any of 2.02 Latin settlements, so you couldn't notice that there's something wrong.

In 2.3 we've set all settlements differently, putting higher tier buildings into most, but we haven't thought that there will be any problem with those few lines of code. The bug is noted now and will be corrected either in a patch to 2.3 or in 2.4.

Thanks for report, Martello. Dago, thanks for expertise.

[Martello]

Happy to help, and thanks for the explanations. When the Mongols show up I'll let you know if those units become available then.

[k/t]

Why is the red part missing from your file and not from mine?

[wudang_clown]

You've cited different line, with hidden_resource cbr_koj. The one that was "faulty" was with hidden_resource recruit_koj, which concerns Jerusalem.

[Napoli]

Do I need 1.0 before I can install 2.3?

The 2.3.2 thread said it required an installation or 2.3 first, but the thread for 2.3 didn't give any requirements.

Yet when I started the 2.3 installation, it requested me to direct it to the folder where Broken Crescent is located. A folder that doesn't exist yet.

It just creates the folder itself like any other installation I guess. It implied otherwise.

I assume I don't need 2.3.1 before I can skip to the next version after that.

Well the mod installed itself. And added several GB to the MTW2 folder, but for some reason the game won't start and I cannot find any of the files installed.

Could they have been set to be hidden somehow? It put a useless executable file on my desktop that gives a "cannot find Kingdoms.exe" error even though I have Kingdoms 1.5.

Oi TW center y u no allow editing forum posts to prevent spamming?

The auto detecting of my Total war directory was WAY off. It literally created its own Sega directory to throw me off. No wonder it wouldn't work.

[k/t]

You can't edit till you have 25 posts.

[wudang_clown]

The 2.3.2 thread said it required an installation or 2.3 first, but the thread for 2.3 didn't give any requirements.

That's because 2.3 only requires M2TW + Kingdoms 1.05. It's specified there.

Yet when I started the 2.3 installation, it requested me to direct it to the folder where Broken Crescent is located. A folder that doesn't exist yet.

Where did you download BC from?

I assume I don't need 2.3.1 before I can skip to the next version after that.

You have to install 2.3.2 and then 2.3.2.2.

[Enarec]

Seeing as you (the BC team) don't want to include Agart's improved strat map settlements, do you plan to make new ones yourselves? If so, great, but I'd still recommend including Agart's settlements until they are ready.

I heard that you wanted to try something like the trait system in Meneth's Submod Compilation (Characters come to age at 5, but can't move. They will be educated in suitable settlements and will get new traits that improve personalities (or make the personality worse, if they get bad traits)). If this is true, here is the link: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=380006
You can probably ask Meneth for details on making a system like that. Specifically the Live Long and Prosper submod in MSC is the one you are looking for.

On to suggestions now:
1) More greenery on the campaign map! Even now, after years of desertification and climate change, the Middle East is more green than on the current campaign map. In 1174 AD there would be even more grasslands and trees.
2) Include the better strat map water from Charge's Mapmod 1.7. Just the water, you don't have to include the other textures.

...and that's probably all, at least I can't think of more than that currently.

[Byzantineboy]

Hi BC Team, I love your work so much! All is beautifull, you have realised a very good mod, thank you!
I played BC since 3 years now, i am waiting very hard the 3.0!

I have maybe a suggestion: middle-east is an area with many religious minorities, who survived untill nowadays.
It would be interessant and historic to represent the christian minorities in Mesopotamia and Persia too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_East
And the copts were fast a majority in Egypt in the XII century.
There was also a strong zoroastrian community in Yazd and Bam.
Jew communities were still present in Yemen, Palestine, Greece, Alexandria, Mesopotamia, and so on...

With unique buildings (like the Dakhmeh in Yazd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakhma, with Monastery of Saint Pishoy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monastery_of_Saint_Pishoy)
we could, for exemple, represent this diversity (a little conversion rate, for preserving this minority), and represent the jizzya too (this building give a little among money to the islamic owners)

I am free next week, so if it is too many work, i could help you, or make it myself (and all those who want help me).

[wudang_clown]

The map will certainly get new textures at some point, but we certainly won't use any old improvements!

As for religions, I've answered in another thread.

[k/t]

Aspet Lancers are not in the game? They are mentioned in the one of the txt files but that's it.

Are Armenia's Aspet troops early or late professionals? Are they roving armed bands for hire or a standing army loyal to the king? What about Didebuls? Nakharar are nobles, right? What about Askari?

What's the difference between "heavy horse" (Kypchak Bodyguard) and "bc heavy horse"? Do they represent different types of horse?

Kontaratoi Pikemen and Jerusalem Cross have "stat_stl", but no other unit does.

I've noticed a lot of units have a certain weapon in-game but the code for a different one in the EDU. Should I report these in the Bug forum?

[wudang_clown]

Aspet Lancers are not in the game? They are mentioned in the one of the txt files but that's it.

I think they are left over from 1.05, quite ugly if you ask me.

Are Armenia's Aspet troops early or late professionals?

With few exceptions, there is no distinction in BC between early and late eras.

Are they roving armed bands for hire or a standing army loyal to the king? What about Didebuls? Nakharar are nobles, right?

Descriptions of these units are short, but I think they answer your questions.

What about Askari?

What about them?

What's the difference between "heavy horse" (Kypchak Bodyguard) and "bc heavy horse"? Do they represent different types of horse?

I'm not sure right now, but I think they have the same statistics, but those are different models.

Kontaratoi Pikemen and Jerusalem Cross have "stat_stl", but no other unit does.

I can't answer this, because I don't know why there is that difference.

I've noticed a lot of units have a certain weapon in-game but the code for a different one in the EDU. Should I report these in the Bug forum?

This is also not my area of expertise.

[k/t]

If they answered my questions, I wouldn't be asking. I'm pretty sure the Nahkarar are Feudal, but I wanted to make sure.

Early and Late Professionals have nothing to do with Early or Late Eras.

"Are they roving armed bands for hire" - i.e. are they Early Professionals?

"or a standing army loyal to the king?" - i.e. are they Late Professionals?

Obviously, I was also asking what category Askari would fall under.

[wudang_clown]

If they answered my questions, I wouldn't be asking. I'm pretty sure the Nahkarar are Feudal, but I wanted to make sure.

I'm not sure what exactly didebuls were. I've found two explanations: 1. they were a minor land owning class, comparable to the feudal knights of Western Europe, and 2. "non-hereditary noblemen of high rank, senior to aznaur, usually enjoyed by one in state service". The word seems to be of Georgian origin, though.

Early and Late Professionals have nothing to do with Early or Late Eras.

"Are they roving armed bands for hire" - i.e. are they Early Professionals?

"or a standing army loyal to the king?" - i.e. are they Late Professionals?

Obviously, I was also asking what category Askari would fall under.

You mean, historically?

If you mean in game, then there is no such thing in BC like early and late professionals. The recruitment is broken into Native Recruitment, Area of Recruitment and Mercenaries. Askaris fall under AOR Religious supporters as "Muslim Jihad Cavalry". Read this for more info. I have no idea about the Aspet, as "aspet" seems to be just a title, not a description of social status of a person (on the contrary to "nakharar" and "azat"). In that particular case, I'd stick to the unit's description: "Regularly employed by Basil II Bulgaroctonus and John Tzimisces, these men now owe allegiance to the Armenian Kings of Cilicia".

[k/t]

Heh, you are the only BC team guy I've seen, so I identified you with the mod and I assumed you knew everything about it, the way I assume Caesar Clivus knows everything about Battle For The Baltic. Thanks for the help ^^.

I'll try to find some Armenians on here and pump them for info. Or I can try one of your researchers/experts.

[wudang_clown]

There are few of us hanging around here, but no one knows everything, as we haven't participated in BC development since its beginning. That's why it's not always possible to explain this or that BC feature.