What's it going to take to fix Shogun 2?

[Brutalsubtlety]

There are many different creative tricks available to game developers to add spice into well-worn genres to keep them feeling fresh, but sometimes, it's the simplest and most-expected ideas that yield the most alluring fruit. Adding an entirely new clan or allowing an existing clan to take a dissimilar military/social path.

A renewed effort by CA could help to establish a more riveting experience both in combat and strategy with an introduction of new 'unknown' units quick thinking and adaptive strategy will again be needed.

It is not unreasonable for each clan to have had its own style, both in units and buildings. This would've been a welcome and necessary addition to Shogun2's ability to captivate and immerse.

The need to continually plot positions, adapt to new adversaries, that's where Total War ought be progressing towards, giving each clan, location, unit roster its own character and appearance.

As it stands simply the vision of something unseen before will be dazzling bullion to eyes whom have grown tired and soar from all the consistent standardized, indistinguishable sameness of units previously encountered.
Why not have variety in each clans: units, castles, fighting styles? At the very least some upper level unique units, like Empire made available towards the latter phases of gameplay. A units armour, appearance, configurations, castle appearance, configurations, make the faction what it is beyond the currently implemented 'variety' of Mon's and clan armour colour.


Any thoughts?

[sdjenkyn]

There are many different creative tricks available to game developers to add spice into well-worn genres to keep them feeling fresh, but sometimes, it's the simplest and most-expected ideas that yield the most alluring fruit adding an entirely new clan or allowing an existing clan to take a dissimilar military/social path.

This redeployment by CA could help to establish a more enthralling exercise in combat strategy with the introduction of new 'unknown' units quick thinking and adaptive strategy will be needed. The need to continually plot positions, adapt to new adversaries, simply the vision of something unseen will be thrilling stuff, given the indistinguishable sameness of units previously encountered.


Any other thoughts?

How about opening your thread with a coherent question and description? Thought for sure this was gonna be another bug thread only to find out that I have no idea what it is.

[Brutalsubtlety]

How about opening your thread with a coherent question and description? Thought for sure this was gonna be another bug thread only to find out that I have no idea what it is.

Must Happen all the time.

Here once more for your indulgence...

What's it going to take to fix Shogun 2?

Pretty clear

What do you think will make Shogun 2 play better?

is that a little easier on the grey matter?

(I then outlined some of my thoughts. See what I did there? I guess I needed to say that well now I have. I'll simplify my earlier musings: Perhaps CA could add new different units, or introduce a change within the existing factions.)

[sdjenkyn]

Must Happen all the time.

Here once more for your indulgence...

What's it going to take to fix Shogun 2?

Pretty clear

What do you think will make Shogun 2 play better?

is that a little easier on the grey matter?

(I then outlined some of my thoughts. See what I did there? I guess I needed to say that well now I have. I'll simplify my earlier musings: Perhaps CA could add new different units, or introduce a change within the existing factions.)

Please answer LestaT first as I dont think I can cope with all the emoticons at the moment.

[Brutalsubtlety]

Must Happen all the time.

Here once more for your indulgence...

What's it going to take to fix Shogun 2?

Pretty clear

What do you think will make Shogun 2 play better?

is that a little easier on the grey matter?

(I then outlined some of my thoughts. See what I did there? I guess I needed to say that well now I have. I'll simplify my earlier musings: Perhaps CA could add new different units, or introduce a change within the existing factions.)

The word coherent capable of logical and consistent speech, thought, etc. tells me you can think the question here is what's stopping you?

Not wishing to sound quite as acidic as this does, i don't gain my sense of self through flaming others on game forums.

[chris10]

Not wishing to sound quite as acidic as this does, i don't gain my sense of self through flaming others on game forums.

After re-reading the entire topic and realizing that you attacked and personally offended almost everybody either directly or indirectly who had not agreed with you, you have prooven the opposite...
You are entirely unable to give proper anwers to people objecting or criticizing your points but instead you try to belittle them personally with arroganting and snappish comments/answers or you call generically everybody a troll if they do not agree with you...this and your exhaustive use of smileys and your double/triple posting beaviour shows clearly that you are somebody people should not bother with...

[Brutalsubtlety]

After re-reading the entire topic and realizing that you attacked and personally offended almost everybody either directly or indirectly who had not agreed with you, you have prooven the opposite...
You are entirely unable to give proper anwers to people objecting or criticizing your points but instead you try to belittle them personally with arroganting and snappish comments/answers or you call generically everybody a troll if they do not agree with you...this and your exhaustive use of smileys and your double/triple posting beaviour shows clearly that you are somebody people should not bother with...

I apologise for my human response, when it appears I should have embraced my detractors like some biblical benefactor of old. Perhaps there are two sides to this issue, or perhaps you have all the answers. I insult everybody out of the sheer whimsy, I don't even bother to read others post and simply adopt a position through some as yet discovered random process.

btw Is this how you would improve Shogun 2? By selecting me on this forum and explaining how my behaviour grates on your character, I may have been simply responding in kind to others less than polite posts. But I guess you'll never know. For to you I am a walking embodiment of discourtesy(rather than some guy who is genuinely interested in ways to bring back good game play to game we all love.)

Have and different point of view state it without attacking me and my opinion and see where that goes? Try it before you assume you understand all in the blink of and eye.

Which wristwatches are Swiss wristwatches?

Didn't say that.


Therein lies the problem.


Didn't say that.

Please don't put words in my mouth.



To be perfectly frank, you asked for opinions on how Shogun 2 can be fixed / improved. Fine. However, if a person posts stating they are of the opinion it doesn't need fixing, that's a valid opinion to hold. You don't need to use the "poorly veiled insults" you are so critical of, just because they have a different opinion. Even if I agree with you that Shogun 2 can be improved, it doesn't mean I will scorn those who believe otherwise.

As for the people who insult you - no, you are not expected to return in kind. The proper action is to report the posts and either ignore them, or be the better man and respond sincerely, despite their lack of sincerity. Doing otherwise is counter-productive.

Have a different point of view state it without attacking me and my opinion and see where that goes? Try it before you assume you understand all in the blink of and eye.
To be perfectly frank you are displaying the exact behaviour that you are currently in the process of accusing me of (to a degree.) Unless you have posted this position to all parties involved.

btw I agree with much of what you've said and apologise.


There was a minimum of cinnamon in the aluminum pan.

[LestaT]

Fix what ?

[craziii]

Fix what ?

yea, what?

[Brutalsubtlety]

yea, what?

You guys have really spent your time well; I mean any chance at improving Shogun 2 in an open forum is such a waste. Really we should just troll and flame any hope at improving things, or simply act like clever little s instead of constructing an actual thought (No wonder your so happy with Shogun as it stands.) Bravo you little hero's of pubescent pettiness.

[Brutalsubtlety]

:

Fix what ?

Why don't you take your phony, suburban, half- somewhere else.


Fix mate, like in make it better.

[sdjenkyn]

Do I come to your work & tell you how to kneel properly infront of your paying clients?

Fix mate, like in make it better.

Sorry about the use of words its what we people use to explain our ideas

Let me try and re-clarify what I (we) meant. There are already several threads in existence with the word "fix" attached to them and they all deal with "bugs". There are also several threads on this subject currently in existence which you could have just added to. Lastly owning a thesaurus does not make you more intelligent especially if you continue to use your current form of sentence structure. We are only trying to help you out, especially if you want to have a any kind of intelligent discussion in the future.

[Brutalsubtlety]

Let me try and re-clarify what I (we) meant. There are already several threads in existence with the word "fix" attached to them and they all deal with "bugs". There are also several threads on this subject currently in existence which you could have just added to. Lastly owning a thesaurus does not make you more intelligent especially if you continue to use your current form of sentence structure. We are only trying to help you out, especially if you want to have a any kind of intelligent discussion in the future.

Now you become somewhat equitable, very well I have heard your opinion. Just a minor point, does an intelligent discussion require poorly veiled insults?

I slit a sheet. A sheet I slit. Upon the slitted sheet, I sit!

[GambleFish]

Now you become somewhat equitable, very well I have heard your opinion. Just a minor point, does an intelligent discussion require poorly veiled insults?

I slit a sheet. A sheet I slit. Upon the slitted sheet, I sit!

Apparently, yes, it does. Either that, or occasional inane babbling.

Really we should just troll and flame any hope at improving things, or simply act like clever little s instead of constructing an actual thought (No wonder your so happy with Shogun as it stands.) Bravo you little hero's of pubescent pettiness.

This explains itself sufficiently without any need for you to feel self righteous and grandiloquent. I do hope you enjoyed your moment of feeling superior and adequate. Giving all on this thread a chance to witness you for the obviously neurotic David Caruso obsessed shut in that you are.

"Looks Like something caught her." David Caruso

What's it going to take to fix Shogun 2?
Pretty clear
What do you think will make Shogun 2 play better?
is that a little easier on the grey matter?

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Fix what ?

Yeah, seconded...uh I mean.... thirded.
S2 doesnt' neet to be fixed.
I wish all the whiners would be fixed so they couldn't produce whiney offspring.

[Roslolian]

Stewie,

You're using the language incorrectly. Please adjust the usage until your point can be approached in a meaningful manner. For your benefit, I will attempt to summarize.

He does not mean the game is broken. He means, "What new features or changes could be made that would increase the replay value to the game, in light of the marked similarities in all playable factions?" He then expands, somewhat brokenly, upon ideas which might further that goal, though this is where I begin to have trouble understanding him.

It seems he believes something ahistorical needs to be allowed in order to make interaction between factions more varied, and in so doing increase the replayability of the game. However, I won't swear to that interpretations.

Sincerely,

Me.

[RandarKal]

Stewie,

You're using the language incorrectly. Please adjust the usage until your point can be approached in a meaningful manner. For your benefit, I will attempt to summarize.

He does not mean the game is broken. He means, "What new features or changes could be made that would increase the replay value to the game, in light of the marked similarities in all playable factions?" He then expands, somewhat brokenly, upon ideas which might further that goal, though this is where I begin to have trouble understanding him.

It seems he believes something ahistorical needs to be allowed in order to make interaction between factions more varied, and in so doing increase the replayability of the game. However, I won't swear to that interpretations.

Sincerely,

Me.

This, though I sort of got the idea that he was aiming for adding China or Korea to the mix, or something along those lines, though that would, combined with some ahistorical developments (including a Portuguese Invasion), generally add to his general point as i understand it.

[Humble Warrior]

Make Impatience your enemy.


We know when the Patch is due out (1st week of may). What`s the point rushing it all? After it fails to come out on time, then we can crucify CA.

[Brutalsubtlety]

This, though I sort of got the idea that he was aiming for adding China or Korea to the mix, or something along those lines, though that would, combined with some ahistorical developments (including a Portuguese Invasion), generally add to his general point as i understand it.

Although this might be nice I was thinking of nothing quite so dramatic; simply adding in some new dynamic decisions (the game already allows for this mechanic) you choose to become a fanatical Buddhist You get an uber Buddhist unit depending on your clan... as an example.
You choose to become an accepting Buddhist You get a slightly less uber Buddhist unit depending on your clan... but also gain access to matchlock units as an example.

Or you build a legendary archery dojo this inturn allows you to further research archery allowing your clan soul access to some as yet seen unit.

Or you capture a legendary archery dojo and are then given an option to add one of three possible additions, each of these options inturn opens a new research branch eventually allowing your clan soul access to some as yet seen unit.

How would adding that be aligned with keeping the historical accuracy? It seems you and OP want to add features, which will destroy the ability to immerse yourself into a Japanese civil war in the 16th century due to too many surreal units/traits.
About your idea about a different start for every faction, I have to ask -What should have changed in the historical conditions for a clan that every start needs to be different? If CA ever apply that notion to their game, I hope they will make it a DLC (so I don't have to get it). I rather not see a return of units like incendiary pigs, massive armies of war hounds and battlefield gladiators (although the battlefield ninjas are already stretching it).

Yes I see your point there. Could I just add that the current unit roster is hardly some historical text; it is rather a game roster that seems at the moment to be lacking a certain joy de vive; I think both opinions aren't mutually exclusive either; unit variety need not be historically incompatible with a more interesting dynamic campaign. IMHO

After reading his/her well-written post, I was surprised at the nonsense replies.. Reading and understanding english above elementary school level is not that hard.
(even if the thread starter missed a few commas here and there)

I do find the idea of "unknown" units interesting, especially if it was directly tied in with the game concept. Such as (rough ideas) having a slight randomized tech tree or unit selection when a new campaign is first started.
Or by having things similar to faction traits (Mori better at naval combat, etc) also be somewhat randomized or unpredictable. Most effectively through tech trees since a flat random "BAM, you have +50 to Ashigaru, and a unique Ashigaru OmgAwezomeBombs unit!" would be too out of the players choice.

But I do think a Total War game with some element of unpredictable army compositions would be very interesting indeed.
Imagine starting a new campaign and not knowing exacly what Hojo has this campaign..
Do they have a different tech tree this time, with incredibly powerful citadel towers at the late game? Or do they have very deadly surgical units like Hattori-style ninjas in the early game?
Unpredictability adds replayability, which is one of the reasons why I consider the game Sword of The Stars to be one of the finest turn-based/realtime space strategy games of all time, with its somewhat random tech tree.

+rep, good thread

Thank you for restoring my faith in the Shogun TWC community. It was most gracious of you to help interpret/decipher my wild ramblings.
'Unpredictable army compositions' should probably have been this threads Header.
Every new campaign is just that, and never knowing exacly what the Hojo has this campaign. (Wouldn't this have been more what it was like for the Clan leader during this turbulent time?)
An altered tech tree each time, with possibly canon/rocket citadel towers in the late game? (yeah this could happen, this should be more the games focus IMHO. Not necessarily rocket towers, but the added possibility of unknown events and adversaries.

[Brutalsubtlety]

Stewie,

You're using the language incorrectly. Please adjust the usage until your point can be approached in a meaningful manner. For your benefit, I will attempt to summarize.

He does not mean the game is broken. He means, "What new features or changes could be made that would increase the replay value to the game, in light of the marked similarities in all playable factions?" He then expands, somewhat brokenly, upon ideas which might further that goal, though this is where I begin to have trouble understanding him.

It seems he believes something ahistorical needs to be allowed in order to make interaction between factions more varied, and in so doing increase the replayability of the game. However, I won't swear to that interpretations.

Sincerely,

Me.

There are many different creative tricks available to game developers (CA) to add spice into well-worn genres (TW) to keep them feeling fresh (interesting, more enjoyable to play), but sometimes, it's the simplest and most-expected ideas that yield the most alluring fruit(There is an easy answer,) adding an entirely new clan or allowing an existing clan to take a divergent (new, different) military/social paths.(In game choices lead to new buildings, new units, and a new exciting battle strategy.
These changes could be applied after a patch or with DLC introducing the until now missing variety within the current game mechanic

This redeployment by CA will help establish a more enthralling exercise in combat strategy(make Shogun 2 more enjoyable) with the introduction of new 'unknown' units quick thinking and adaptive strategy will be needed. The need to continually plot positions, adapt to new adversaries, simply the vision of something as yet witnessed will be thrilling stuff, (I am of the understanding that given the indistinguishable sameness of units previously encountered new units whom look and behave in ways different to those we currently encounter while playing Shogun 2 would be a good thing. I am also now painfully aware that some feel that this opinion is a personal insult to their identity. Rather than the plain request for a discourse aimed at improving the current game mechanic.


Sincerely,