Impressions From The Battlefield

[Reno Melitensis]

Great pictures Caratacus, that was a blood bath from the pictures you posted.

Cheers

[caratacus]

Yes it was @Reno Melitensis

The great fight back against the Franks has well and truly begun. The Frank's confidence in mounting and invasion of Frisian land is now working to my advantage, as their forces are now split and I have been successful in rolling back captured territory with forces drawn from the south after the subjugation of Llydaw. However it's a tough fight, battles are intense with advancement requiring hit after hit against Frank warbands to sustain itself fully and enable a continued push back to the River Meuse
These are a few shots from my last battles;

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[JVR]

how do u take screenies in me2tw? i know how for rome but cant figure it out for kingdoms????

[JVR]

i just had a heroic bridge battle and would have loved to take some shots

[caratacus]

For screen capture FRAPS is free and easy to use @JVR http://www.fraps.com/download.php

A technique I use when taking shots during campaign battles using FRAPS, is to set the screen capture button to the Insert button. After starting a battle and setting unit formation and commands, I set the UI to hide all command buttons to give a nice clear viewing screen. When taking shoots, I get close up to the action and press the Print Screen button, this causes the screen to freeze for about a minute or longer after which four quadrants show on the screen successively and one of these is a zoomed image of the battle scene being viewed. Thereafter each time I press this Print button after this, I take a screen shot of the zoomed screen that shows by pressing the adjacent Insert button which I set as default. Continuous pressing of the print button also helps in breaking the action up to capture better action moves, as like in photography, you must be prepared to snap many times to be able to select the best possible shots. If the zoomed image doesn't show the resolution size will need to be altered.

My campaign against the Franks has been quiet realistic and very intense,with my forces pushing through to reach the River Meuse but unable to sustain the advance owing to heavy losses and Frankish forces curving around to undertake continuous counter offensives. I will probably succeed eventually in my objective of driving them back over the River Meuse (the white dots on the map) But not confident in eliminating them entirely because they are a such a strong faction to overcome. It's a real challenge to preserve Roman rule in northern Gaul.

These shots show a recent battle in which marching a full stack army up a hill to engage a Frankish position meets exceptionally strong resistance on the wooded summit and without maintaining a rear guard to defend a sneaky attempt at their cavalry of encirclement, could have led to a devastating defeat on its slopes. It nevertheless proved to be an enjoyable but costly battle.

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[benczeb90]

I've played two custom battles (beside playing a hotseat campaign to be able to play two factions simultaneously: CB and WRE factions).
So I've played two battles with maxed out soldiers. One with a full CB stack, against a half stack of Aengla and another half stack of Seaxna or Sahsons (whichever is playable in custom battle mode).
The other battle was with WRE, defending against the Picts, all units (mine, theirs) maxed out. I was defending the same bridge in the two battles (same battle map).
Of course i chose the best units for all factions, for example Saxon Foederati, British Legionnaries, Campwr and British Bronheddyr (?) and elite schywyesfwayr () archers.
With the romans i chose auxilia cohors and only stronger infantry, exculcatores, and sagittarii graves.
Both armies with two bodyguard units. I defended with shield mode, and in three lines both times. First line with fire at will mode off. The troops were standing at the end of the bridge, making a smoothly curved 'almost-half circle' to cover all exits on my side of the bridge. I haven't chosen too-strong-only units for the barbarian enemies, just the same way as for myself: ranging from strong (like auxilia cohors) to very strong (like legio comitatenses and bucellarii). No regular and ordinary weak troops (like Miles or Milites level units) were allowed, only better troops.

SO the thing is, that i LOST all the two custom battles. On Medium battle difficulty. Lol this has never happened before. I expected victories. I thought before starting these battles that even with shield wall mode off, open field defending or attacking, even on hard battle difficulty it's probably possible to win for me, for my almost continous battle experience of 8 years. I try this custom battle defending with every mod and submod i try, and this is the first time as far as i remember that this didn't worked. I lost the two separate battles clearly, the enemy had 66% losses every time. These battles were exactly the same experience of having no chance of victory, since my forces were losing manpower more rapidly than the enemy, at both battles.

SO please tell me, how can you win against an elite barbarian enemy with elite (and expensive) roman troops? I thought that the thing that i was with forces with the famous roman discipline and eliteness (that i admire so much!), and that i was defending, and that i was defending a NARROW bridge's mouth...on medium difficulty...these were circumstances of clear winning, not clear losing.

Hey, it's alright by me, no problemo really, it's good that the mod is this challenging and further motivating, i can even accept it and build on the conclusions, but i don't have trustworthy conclusions yet, since i haven't won even one fair battle against the barbarians. This is why i'm writing this...i'm curious as hell: Why? How can this be? How could i lose every time with only 2/3 (66%) enemy losses? Mine 95-100% What to do next time? Is this impossible to win an elite vs elite, full stack vs full stack battle, with the same and equal number of unit types? (under this last sentence i mean x vs x units of heavy infantry + x vs x units of spearmen + x vs x units of skirmishers + x vs x units of archers + 1 or 2 vs 1 or 2 units of general unit of mine, and of the enemy and all are elite forces)

Oh, and i don't experience these kind of difficulties when playing the campaign, because i'm still at the beginning, at the first enemy attacks, and there's no elite barbarian units yet. But i'm starting to fear

Thanks for your comments,
Cheers,
Blas

[Riothamus]

I've played two custom battles (beside playing a hotseat campaign to be able to play two factions simultaneously: CB and WRE factions).
So I've played two battles with maxed out soldiers. One with a full CB stack, against a half stack of Aengla and another half stack of Seaxna or Sahsons (whichever is playable in custom battle mode).
The other battle was with WRE, defending against the Picts, all units (mine, theirs) maxed out. I was defending the same bridge in the two battles (same battle map).
Of course i chose the best units for all factions, for example Saxon Foederati, British Legionnaries, Campwr and British Bronheddyr (?) and elite schywyesfwayr () archers.
With the romans i chose auxilia cohors and only stronger infantry, exculcatores, and sagittarii graves.
Both armies with two bodyguard units. I defended with shield mode, and in three lines both times. First line with fire at will mode off. The troops were standing at the end of the bridge, making a smoothly curved 'almost-half circle' to cover all exits on my side of the bridge. I haven't chosen too-strong-only units for the barbarian enemies, just the same way as for myself: ranging from strong (like auxilia cohors) to very strong (like legio comitatenses and bucellarii). No regular and ordinary weak troops (like Miles or Milites level units) were allowed, only better troops.

SO the thing is, that i LOST all the two custom battles. On Medium battle difficulty. Lol this has never happened before. I expected victories. I thought before starting these battles that even with shield wall mode off, open field defending or attacking, even on hard battle difficulty it's probably possible to win for me, for my almost continous battle experience of 8 years. I try this custom battle defending with every mod and submod i try, and this is the first time as far as i remember that this didn't worked. I lost the two separate battles clearly, the enemy had 66% losses every time. These battles were exactly the same experience of having no chance of victory, since my forces were losing manpower more rapidly than the enemy, at both battles.

SO please tell me, how can you win against an elite barbarian enemy with elite (and expensive) roman troops? I thought that the thing that i was with forces with the famous roman discipline and eliteness (that i admire so much!), and that i was defending, and that i was defending a NARROW bridge's mouth...on medium difficulty...these were circumstances of clear winning, not clear losing.

Hey, it's alright by me, no problemo really, it's good that the mod is this challenging and further motivating, i can even accept it and build on the conclusions, but i don't have trustworthy conclusions yet, since i haven't won even one fair battle against the barbarians. This is why i'm writing this...i'm curious as hell: Why? How can this be? How could i lose every time with only 2/3 (66%) enemy losses? Mine 95-100% What to do next time? Is this impossible to win an elite vs elite, full stack vs full stack battle, with the same and equal number of unit types? (under this last sentence i mean x vs x units of heavy infantry + x vs x units of spearmen + x vs x units of skirmishers + x vs x units of archers + 1 or 2 vs 1 or 2 units of general unit of mine, and of the enemy and all are elite forces)

Oh, and i don't experience these kind of difficulties when playing the campaign, because i'm still at the beginning, at the first enemy attacks, and there's no elite barbarian units yet. But i'm starting to fear

Thanks for your comments,
Cheers,
Blas

Are you using elite Roman Cavalry? The distinction between Roman infantry and Barbarian infantry had becomes blurred in the 4th century as tactics and Armour was similar. Roman cavalry had become the Romans major weapon and used correctly w/Roman legionaries they are deadly. Also it depends upon who you are representing as the barbarians. The Franks
would be probably the most difficult barbarian faction to play against. If you were to play the Saxons you should keep in mind the percentage of elite units would be lower in their armies but the spear units would dominate. the Saxon duguð would mostly make up their ranks. So the historical composition of the armies should represent the faction armies chosen in a custom battle or otherwise you going to get something a bit skewed.

[benczeb90]

No, these were almost completely infantry vs infantry combat. There were no tactics at all, except completely closing the bridge with 1000+ heavy infantry and spearmen in defensive stance and shield wall + behind them 4 skirmishers and +2 archers + 2 general units. The barbarians had the same number units of each unit types. But i told what i remember of it. I could recreate the unit lists if needed for someone who tried to solve this 'mistery', but Rio I think, you're not answering the questions, just telling some random info ( which are mostly useful, but still..I think you're reading too fast )
If any info and details are needed for solving this, do not hesitate to ask Thanks.

Blas

[Riothamus]

No, these were almost completely infantry vs infantry combat. There were no tactics at all, except completely closing the bridge with 1000+ heavy infantry and spearmen in defensive stance and shield wall + behind them 4 skirmishers and +2 archers + 2 general units. The barbarians had the same number units of each unit types. But i told what i remember of it. I could recreate the unit lists if needed for someone who tried to solve this 'mistery', but Rio I think, you're not answering the questions, just telling some random info ( which are mostly useful, but still..I think you're reading too fast )
If any info and details are needed for solving this, do not hesitate to ask Thanks.

Blas

The elite infantry units are designed to fight evenly between Romans and Barbarians. Franks vs Romans - I just tested this and the battle came down to a mass extermination of both armies so I dont know and cant answerer why you are getting such a decisive defeat holding a bridge. The composition of both armies must have equally amount of swordsmen and spearmen as swords men will win over spearmen. Im not surprised to hear of any defeat at the Barbarian hands so tactically you must maneuver your troops Roman troops are still superior in discipline and training and the game provides a greater ability for them to be be further armored...but only while playing the game. Also I'm not reading your post too quickly but I'm trying to point out the only advantage the Romans had at this time was their ability to decisively use heavy cavalry w infantry. The custom battles in the final patch will remove a great deal of units and will portray basic army compositions from each factions. The barbarian armies never had the ability to mass elite units in the same proportion as the Romans however their numbers were greater to make up for it.

[midnite]

No, these were almost completely infantry vs infantry combat. There were no tactics at all, except completely closing the bridge with 1000+ heavy infantry and spearmen in defensive stance and shield wall + behind them 4 skirmishers and +2 archers + 2 general units. The barbarians had the same number units of each unit types. But i told what i remember of it. I could recreate the unit lists if needed for someone who tried to solve this 'mistery', but Rio I think, you're not answering the questions, just telling some random info ( which are mostly useful, but still..I think you're reading too fast )
If any info and details are needed for solving this, do not hesitate to ask Thanks.

Blas

Hi benczeb90

The best strategy against the barbarians that I have found is to use heavy cav against the flanks. Strike and then retreat. Repeat. Force the barbarians into the middle where your archers can bombard them with arrows. They will break or fall.

[Reno Melitensis]

Hi benczeb90

The best strategy against the barbarians that I have found is to use heavy cav against the flanks. Strike and then retreat. Repeat. Force the barbarians into the middle where your archers can bombard them with arrows. They will break or fall.

That's the same tactic I use. A solid line of infantry with reserves, archers behind, and three to four powerful cavalry units. The classic hammer and anvil tactic.

Cheers.

[benczeb90]

Hi Rio, midnite and Reno!

Thanks to you all! That's funny, i have never been forced to to use much tactics by a tw mod. It seems you're teaching us, mere mortal players via a game! haha
All right, i understand now, and will try it soon.

I admit that i've hardly ever used cavalry except the generals and some light horse archers or skirmishers but no heavy cavalry. I usually play in single line formation. If my line is longer than the enemy's line(s), i flank them with infantry. When they are all caught in the battle against my encircling line, later on i move my general and the light missle cavalry to their backs and try to break and rout them via just roaming there without hitting OR hitting the weakest spot if weak enough to worth the risk, but i don't force them to break, instead i wait for my infantry to do its work for a while and then try to use the cavalry again. Of course under continuous missile attack from the beginning. If my line wasn't long enough, i separated my army into two groups and attacked on two flanks, again, trying to encircling them, leaving only 1-2 units defending the archers in the middle while a corridor exists between the two flank hitting groups (in front of the enemy line(s)). So i used wrong offensive tactics with wrong units, right? I only play battles on medium difficulty and usually these tactics work. But i'm starting to revise them.

Two things to mention here: As for AI archers, usually i can even hit them with my running infantry line, the 'keep your distance' doesn't work in CB2. At least for 'fleet sailors'. And as for the player's (my) archers and skirmishers, i have to have an eye at the missile troops continuously, because they randomly stop firing during battles. Maybe the firing is connected to a distance parameter or something and when the enemy unit it's firing is tossed far enough, it'll be too far for my missle troops, they stop firing and don't follow the enemy units to keep them under fire :| )

Is there some writing here on the forum (or else), where i can learn battle tactics that i can use in total war games?

Thanks guys really,

Blas

[caratacus]

I play on Very Hard Battle settings and my tactics are usually effective against armies that do not have any substantial advantage in numbers. I never play the formations that are set at the start and always arrange my ranks in the same defensive manner, with the strong infantry in the front, militia and auxiliary spear men behind and archers behind them with cavalry kept close by at the flanks behind the other units. The formation are set in lines of 3-4 deep rather than the block formation giving a greater spread for the enemy to hit against which hopefully disperses the concentration impact of their attack. Should this first rank break there will always be another behind to stem the breach and prevent my archers being attacked, who are busy raining arrows down upon the enemies heads. The longer the advance of an attack can be stemmed the better, as their numbers are whittled away by the archers as the battle progresses to my advantage.

My cavalry are always reserved for checking flank attacks and to break the enemy into rout rather than mounting direct attacks. The cavalry will be directed upon a section that my archers have concentrated upon and are thinning out appreciably to invite attack. Once cavalry have broken a weak section into rout, their comrades usually soon follow. If not, they can be persuaded into doing so by turning the cavalry charge around and striking from the rear. This defensive approach is effective even when attacking an army, as they usually seldom maintain defensive positions in the game and can be provoked into attack using horse archers.

From what you say, the biggest contribution to your defeats is probably by breaking up your army into a two pronged attack, which will weaken your attack against a strong enemy which amasses it's ranks such as the Franks and leave you forces in a very poor defensive position should the attack be turned against you.

My last battle was a good example of this. At the onset I set the army in my defensive formations on a hill and sent out my horse archers to provoke attack by the Frankish army which had taken up position facing mine across a valley. After provoking a charge by two units of their cavalry which were greeted by a hail of arrows, a second attempt succeeded in drawing their army into an all out assault at their tormentors in a mass charge, which was contained effectively by a strong line of Roman spears. After the bodies of fallen horses and riders built up, a weak point was selected to instigate a full on cavalry charge which broke them completely.

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[Theology10]

Excellent tactics and splendid screens. One is now my desktop background!

[midnite]

Great job with the pics, caratacus

[one day]

For all fans of this mod, here are some of my new pictures. I hope, you will enjoy them.

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[midnite]

A few pictures of my battle. My LLydaw army against the romano brits. Outnumbered 3 to 2.

[caratacus]

Those are excellent screenies @Oneday and very creative, Looks like you added some conifer trees into one of the scenes to give more realism which is an interesting idea. I did a photo composite image a while ago using a screenshot from the Mod "Last Kingdom" and a picture of a landscape to recreate a battle scene between the Northumbrians and the Picts called Dun Nechtain. It was decent enough to give a fair representation of what the battle could have looked like in the context of the site itself.

Those action shots are great @Midnight. I can see how you set your archers and reserve troops on the high bank to give a killing ground should the enemy force themselves past the bridge guard. I usually have everybody crowded around the bridge end and it turns into one big scrum with archers on either side to provide cross fire.

[Riothamus]

Superb pics gentlemen!

caratacus, I increased slightly the cavalry strength in at least in the latest uploaded II.6 patch across the faction board and am wondering what you think? Especially concerning the Romans

[one day]

Those are excellent screenies @Oneday and very creative, Looks like you added some conifer trees into one of the scenes to give more realism which is an interesting idea. I did a photo composite image a while ago using a screenshot from the Mod "Last Kingdom" and a picture of a landscape to recreate a battle scene between the Northumbrians and the Picts called Dun Nechtain. It was decent enough to give a fair representation of what the battle could have looked like in the context of the site itself.

Thanks. Yes, you´re right. It´s photomontage with the photo of the real trees. I have suprised, how easy is possible to do this montage. I plan some another pictures with this technic.
I like your snapshots too. Only maybe there is a little much of "white fog". Is it normal ? My fog on the battlefield looks quite different.