Who wants a mod where recruitment depends on the number of the clan population by region (addition or not) or cities levels (addition or not)?

[Brips]

Yep!

I'm thinking about it since years with TW, a mod did it with MTW2 -dlv- but not by real number of population by region, just by city level 1 = x soldier available for the clan (2 cities = addition), 2 = x.
It's possible to do it by real number of population too, for the clan or for a region, but in this case we need a real balance to avoid "impossible difficulty" and small clan army may be

I'm speaking about population number (for me), thus even ashigaru are limited by the people present in the region or total regions, to be realistic we can take 40% max of the total population in army (in peace time, 60% for war time)

If somebody wants to move the poll in general discussion mod thread, gameplay or else, he can...

[Seikales]

I like the mod idea, and I have given a thought on it myself. Yet, the biggest issue in my opinion is :

How to avoid the 'steamrolling´ effect of a clan who has somehow got bigger at the beginning?

[Seikales]

Instead, I have thought of something else. May sound off, but here it is:

The samurai and hero units can only be recruited at the regions which are the game victory condition provinces. Consider them as core provinces.

All other areas can recruit Ashigaru.

This of course requires an overhaul of many aspects, including Food and Economy.

[Brips]

I like the mod idea, and I have given a thought on it myself. Yet, the biggest issue in my opinion is :

How to avoid the 'steamrolling´ effect of a clan who has somehow got bigger at the beginning?

At the beginning is not as big for everyboby, but after yes, it's normal.

Instead, I have thought of something else. May sound off, but here it is:

The samurai and hero units can only be recruited at the regions which are the game victory condition provinces. Consider them as core provinces.

All other areas can recruit Ashigaru.

This of course requires an overhaul of many aspects, including Food and Economy.

That's hardcore... or samouraï recruiting in historical region, but also hardcore...

[SaengsaWang]

Yeah , your idea is pretty nice. I used to think of some kind of this mod for awhile.
but soon I figured it's too hardcode for myself. I like EIC mod(area of recruitment) in Nappy and a mod in Empire that I can't remember the name(recruitment depend on pop) it's very good exemple for what the recruitment system should be in TW series

[Lord Baal]

I putted this in a another thread just a moments ago, I think it belongs here too, of course my idea is sort of more complicated:

Food as an indicator of population sustain and growth should be implemented with a more intricate and "realistic" but relative simple system including the population and the quantity of samurais and ashigarus viable for recruitment.

Food indicating the growth and capping the quantity of the populations is a must. From there you divide the population in two (like in empire), but this time is between land owners and peasants/commoners. The land owners will always be less and slowly to recover than the peasants. The amount of land owners gives you a cap on how much samurai you can recruit (each samurai unit requiring some land owner pop and some peasant pop too for retainers) and the ashigaru units should be subtracted from the peasant population and maybe a little bit (as few as only one) land owner as a samurai leading the ashigaru unit.

This can be even furthered by giving some values on happiness depending on the ratio between the two kind of populations.
If too much land owners are recruited as samurai then the peasants can begin to protest or rebel (be it from the power void or being jobless, I don't know) and rise a rebel army of only or mostly ashigaru in that province. Or if too much ashigaru units are recruited then the land owners can begin to unrest since they get short of hand labor (really hard to do it, since peasants will be really numerous) and then a rebel army with more samurai and some ashigaru can rise (but always having more ashigaru than samurai).

The numbers of the rebelling armies should be subtracted from the local pop like if they where being trained by the owner. And the total number of the population and the diminishing of it on extreme cases should affect not only the wealth but the food production too on the province. Also when disbanding a unit the pop the unit had should be returned to either the original one (people coming back home) or be added to the one the unit is in, or a mixture of both. Like wise reinforcements to replace casualties should consume pop.

And to finish refining this some tech and/or events can change the dynamics of populations. Like giving more rights to peasants increasing the wealth produced by them (common business man) but producing unhappiness on the land owners, or fomenting migrations between regions for level the loss of population in one province.

I know this is not really that much historical and would be a nightmare to the CAI if ever gets implemented (highly doubt it) but it will give a good challenge/spicing to the people how wants more that just do battle across Japan.

If some one made it trough this wall of text thanks for reading it.

[mobucks]

Unlimited Ashigaru, but a cap on Samurai, say, 1-2 units per level of "Renown" you get towards enraging the shogun with your expansion. How many levels are there? So by the time real divide hits, you can field maybe a full stack of Samurai.

[Brips]

I'm speaking about population number (for me), thus even ashigaru are limited by the people present in the region or total regions, to be realistic we can take 40% max of the total population in army.

[Lord Baal]

In previous TW titles the squads did come from the population right? Is that hard to make that happen again?

[Seikales]

By the way, I am curious about 'how' you plan to do it. Which tables do you plan to alter to introduce this effect?

[TWmadman]

the amount of population is not everything. some provinces had high population level but few potential professional warriors (samurai) or even levy troops.

[T.C.]

The concept is simple to implement. If you can script.

[Lord Baal]

By the way, I am curious about 'how' you plan to do it. Which tables do you plan to alter to introduce this effect?

My guessing is if this is even possible, then probably we have to wait for the PFM to get to it's final version (where I hope all the tables and columns are suported) and see.

A start would be as simple as to rest a number from the population on the city/casttle, and being honest I can dare to say that even that seems far fetched.

What a miracle would be to be able to separate the population in two (or even more) to represent better the feudal society where most TW games are set into.

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

isnt this known as RR/RC by PointBlank?

[raest]

isnt this known as RR/RC by PointBlank?

i wish somebody did something similar for STW2. maybe then modders would do away with those nonsensical hard unit caps

[Lord Baal]

i wish somebody did something similar for STW2. maybe then modders would do away with those nonsensical hard unit caps

Amen to that brother!!!

[Ecka65]

I think something could be done to make recruiting more interesting. Unfortunately, my desire is impossible. I'd love to equip and train troops rather than just "recruit" them. Let their equipment and level of training determine how good or otherwise they are. I mean honestly? How does one simply "recruit and viola an elite unit" anyway?

[Charsi]

Unlimited Ashigaru, but a cap on Samurai, say, 1-2 units per level of "Renown" you get towards enraging the shogun with your expansion. How many levels are there? So by the time real divide hits, you can field maybe a full stack of Samurai.

Maybe do it the other way around. Why further burden the specialty units, who are already more expensive than Ashigaru and require specialized buildings?

Ashigaru should be limited by population - they are, after all, trained peasants under arms. Samurai are already limited in type by the speciality buildings present in each province, in production the number of building and recruitment slots in your city, and their higher than normal price and upkeep.

[Lord Baal]

NOTE: I'm using the 12 years per mod now, and also I'm a dreamer about the length of modind that could be applied, so some crazy arguments could come out from this:
I have been thinking about this... all samuari should be recruited in one two turns tops, because they are the land lords that have been training all their lives in use of weapons. They are "ever ready to fight", only waiting to be called upon service, and once recruited they should have some experience right of the bat, not that much but some, and even some extra according to the dojos present on the region they come from. And for the weapons and armor, as they buy it for them selves it should depend on the wealth of the land owner class on the region. A wealthy class in the region means that the samuaris (the land owners) are rich and can buy expensive armor and weapons. A poor region should have its samuaris with (relative) low quality armor and weapons.
On the other hand the ashigaru should have more turns to conscript, since they have to be gathered, and then trained (they where just peasants before recruitment). So yari ashigaru, being the most basic weapon should need one month or two, while yumi would need more months of practice, at least 4, the teppo is even easier so two or one month would do it too. The speed of this can also be influenced by the population numbers on the region. The officers in province with excess of peasants should have no problem finding young people to fill in the ranks, maybe lessing the training time a month, while a scarce populated area will add a month to the training. Their experience should always be green as they really are green, having never used a weapon before. Their armor and weapons should be relative to the local weapon and armor smith (built by the player) since this is the "government one" that provides armor and weaponry to the conscripted troops, also the stats like melee damage and charging should be increased by the encampment building and the folowing, but this would also add some months of training.

So if you want really light and cheap ashigarus, don't make either armory or encampments/barracks/etc on the province and recruit them in a really populated one, you will be filling stacks really soon, they will be fragile but faster to replenish too, so if you have the population to do so, what is stooping you?

Or the other way around, one could build professional ashigaru armies by making barracks and armories on the provinces you choose to, but they will be more expensive and slow to muster.

And not only the ashigaru would be slower to recruit in this system, but also more expensive, since you are the one paying for their equipment and upkeep, while the samurai would pay for most of their stuff and then only will require the upkeep while being mobilized.

All of this should also reflect on the units you see on the battlefield. Every unit should have a few models, like unarmored poor ashigaru, armored ashigaru, poor samurai, middle class samurai, rich samurai. And according to the status of the unit more models of one kind should appear in it on the battlefield. I.e. a samurai unit of 100 man recruited from a poor province would have like 80 poor samurai, 15 middle samurai and only 5 rich samurai. This would be only aesthetically since the unit stats would be given at the moment of recruitment, but it can help to differentiate and give even more variety to the units on the battlefield. Maybe as they progress in experience they would be able to buy better armor and weapons, so they start to look better in the battlefield and have better stats? I don't know, I'm still dreaming.

This is pretty unbalanced and crazy right? A upside down kinda of world? Well even being faster and cheaper to recruit than the ashigaru, the samurai would not be as viable as the ashigaru, at least in the early game. See, all this is based on the fact that (two types of) populations can be added to provinces and then affected by recruitment, so their Aquiles talon would be the fact that you can't mobilize as many samurai as ashigaru.
You wont be able, let's say recruit 12 samurai units in a year and start seeding the terror on your enemies, since this unbalance on the population classes would lead to a revolt, unrest and less income from your province (no one is there controlling the peasants). This will cap the quantity of samurai on the battlefields with some true logic and not some arbitrary head count number.

As I said in my last wall-o-text in the end if you perceive that the immediate threat if gone, or that the troops are hand are not needed anymore then you disband them and they numbers go back to a town. Specially good if you are short of labor on the fields or nobles to run and control said fields.

As you progress over the sengoku era and more "tech advances" are made, you can research something like higher mobilization, or blurring the line between ashigaru and samurai (like it happened), so samurai units would require less land owner population and more peasant population (common folks with weapon skills). Keeping this trend (if one choose to) by the late game most armies would be composed of "samurai" units, but this samurai untis will not require so much land owner population, having a lot of the ashigaru filling in the ranks like the lower kind of samurais, so we can see a transition from the levy feudal peasant armies to more professional full time armies.

[Brips]

No modders dare to do it (or can't)