Smaller empires?

[Gottskalk]

I was playing medieval viking invasion with the xl large mod and I was the HRE and my empire was spanning whole europe and i was disgusted. Im pretty much sick of having to take up to 80 provinces and have an empire spanning the whole damn map. I mean i would be much happier being in central europe constantly on my guard and sometimes i would try to launch campaigns on france and polland but it would be very difficult to control my new lands. Then the game would focus more on the economy and much more trading and diplomacy would be much more fun but would not concern the destruction of whole continents but often only one provence. I would gladly like to win the game as a small country but strong in economy, politics and military status.

i dont know about you but i hate these huge unrealistic empires but i dont think this would be changed as there are so many who want their scotland to rule the world! oh well but a man can dream!

[Lionhead]

managing is boring...and micromanaging sucks... war vs one enemy is the best. Be cool if allies would actually be allies, and not break trust.

[vikingsiddhu]

Something we all should contemplate on, that is realistic expansion, though Rome was able to conquer a whole deal, in real life, few Medieval kingdoms have ever expanded a huge deal. Should military expansion be severely restricted logically, not with huge squalor bonuses, but rather hard-to-take castles, diplomacy, the pope?

[Diomedes]

I know what you mean. It just gets annoying when half the bloody map is controled by you and you have no real major threat. It would be cool if you could control smaller empires and you had to rely on alliances, trade, etc. Perhaps what CA should is set realistic goals for each nation because in the Medieval ages there was no Rome, no all conquering, all ruling empire.

[The True Roman]

I can see what you guys mean haveing it that your faction runs half the world being unrealistic. But I dont want to be hinderd by expashion by stupid things like the pop sclore and other things. I rather not be able to expand because of armys on my borders. Is that not what total war is all about.

[Gottskalk]

good that some people agree with me.

however i was thinking more of more money cost in trying to keep new countries and more uprising.
I would hate having some annoying stuff as the pope,pop cap and such destroy everything as these things are not a realistic factor.

Humm i know what i want but i cant find a real solution oh well. Maybe make it more profitable to improve your own country than to take others?

[Owain_Glyndwr]

First of all, play on Extreme. The first half of the game will be difficult, then once your an Empire you'll have to try and maintain what you've got. I don't see what your problem is, it's a struggle in MTW at all times.

Secondly, people want a significant reward for winning. They don't want a message popping up saying "well done for crushing the entire French army in one battle. They will now pay you indemnities and Flanders is now in your sphere of influence", they want to conquer, to acheive greatness for whatever nation they play.

If you want to play a game where wars lead to less conquest, rather raising your standing etc, and want a difficult financial and political time, play any Paradox game other than HoI.

[Atheist Peace]

I was playing medieval viking invasion with the xl large mod and I was the HRE and my empire was spanning whole europe and i was disgusted. Im pretty much sick of having to take up to 80 provinces and have an empire spanning the whole damn map. I mean i would be much happier being in central europe constantly on my guard and sometimes i would try to launch campaigns on france and polland but it would be very difficult to control my new lands. Then the game would focus more on the economy and much more trading and diplomacy would be much more fun but would not concern the destruction of whole continents but often only one provence. I would gladly like to win the game as a small country but strong in economy, politics and military status.

i dont know about you but i hate these huge unrealistic empires but i dont think this would be changed as there are so many who want their scotland to rule the world! oh well but a man can dream!

I completely agree. I hate the huge empires, it takes away any historical feel to the game.

[Gottskalk]

First of all, play on Extreme. The first half of the game will be difficult, then once your an Empire you'll have to try and maintain what you've got. I don't see what your problem is, it's a struggle in MTW at all times.

Secondly, people want a significant reward for winning. They don't want a message popping up saying "well done for crushing the entire French army in one battle. They will now pay you indemnities and Flanders is now in your sphere of influence", they want to conquer, to acheive greatness for whatever nation they play.

If you want to play a game where wars lead to less conquest, rather raising your standing etc, and want a difficult financial and political time, play any Paradox game other than HoI.

hmm when i play on extreme i just spend all my time fending off huge armies of peasants or urban militia turn after turn after turn. And the stupid computer keeps banding together and im all alone with no allies and the pope becomes so annoying that I turn the computer off before i break the keyboard. Maybe my answer doesnt necesserily mean less qonquest but the same amount of battles with the borders of the countries moving less. I still see room for some major battles but keep in mind major battles often left the competitors so crippled that neither had any chance of imposing anything on one another.

[eltrevo]

hey, I have an idea for MTW2! maybe once you get 40 provinces, a button on the menu pops up that allows you to end the game!

[hsimoorb]

hey, I have an idea for MTW2! maybe once you get 40 provinces, a button on the menu pops up that allows you to end the game!

That's basicaly and RTW short campaign. Not the most popular route.

Personaly, I am a HUGE fan of the "glorious achievments" mode in MTW. It forces you to stay put in your own empire. ALso you have to fight the big powers of the day. Any expansionist countries are huge threat to you, and you need to form alliance systems to keep them ion check. And of coarse not fall victim to thier armies in the meantime. If you have MTW and have never play that mode give it a try today.

[Gottskalk]

That's basicaly and RTW short campaign. Not the most popular route.

Personaly, I am a HUGE fan of the "glorious achievments" mode in MTW. It forces you to stay put in your own empire. ALso you have to fight the big powers of the day. Any expansionist countries are huge threat to you, and you need to form alliance systems to keep them ion check. And of coarse not fall victim to thier armies in the meantime. If you have MTW and have never play that mode give it a try today.

At first your idea may seam brilliant but I have already taken that route. Firstly the AI just does everything as it does normally: every one island factions get isolated and collect heirs, every one province faction gets beaten by bigger faction and last but not least the best faction for that era beats it´s neigbour and then goes on winning 3/4 th world. Then secondly playing it on glorius achievements does not force you to do anything. Most factions still have "you get 2 points for every province you take" then after a while you are forced to kill your neigbour and expand 3 x your previus size because the damn almohads with theyr huge number of starting provinces just keep piling up the points. Than thirdly the computer forces you to expand by keeping on attacking you again and again until you just eliminate her just so she stops. Thern suddenly this small faction attacks you and everybody break their alliance with you and then attack you.

Thanks for idea but sorry i have tried it and it did me no good but perhaps you had a better experience?

[Diomedes]

In the end I think this comes down to the AI or lack of it! lol

We need an AI that is more diplomatic that will only use war as a last resort, and alliances that mean something would also be nice. I'm not against an all conquering nation but it really does get boring conquering the entire map it is so much more fun trying to defend your little country against the titans of the world.

[MoROmeTe]

The situation in MTW was you either got crushed rather early and went in a cycle of minor conquest - trying bigger conquest - defeat - rebuld then rince and repeat either you won a few first battles and then you conquered at leisure to find only one major computer controlled enemy standing in your way after lets say 100 years. Not strangely I usually had as my arch enemy either the Almohads or the Egyptians, rarely the Turks.

So basically what we need is a diplomatic AI capable of allying all or most nations agaist you if you go on a conquest spree (kinda like the BB rating makes you a target in Europe Universalis II). An AI that knows to keep alliances and participate in smaller war mongering when it is in its favor and does not shift the balane of power to a point where you become unbeatable.

Let's hope diplomacy gets a major overhaul from what it was in MTW and RTW...

[Owain_Glyndwr]

hmm when i play on extreme i just spend all my time fending off huge armies of peasants or urban militia turn after turn after turn. And the stupid computer keeps banding together and im all alone with no allies and the pope becomes so annoying that I turn the computer off before i break the keyboard. Maybe my answer doesnt necesserily mean less qonquest but the same amount of battles with the borders of the countries moving less. I still see room for some major battles but keep in mind major battles often left the competitors so crippled that neither had any chance of imposing anything on one another.

Christ, you don't want to win but you don't want the game to be difficult either? You asked for similar borders and with it being hard to take new land and hold it, yet when Extreme mode does it for you it's too hard? What exactly is it you want?

Let's hope diplomacy gets a major overhaul from what it was in MTW and RTW...

As I said in another thread the Total War franchise is about war. If CA takes its foot off the pedal and decides to make it possible for you to spend the entire game making political bargains and trade deals, it wouldn't be Total War.

Also, in MTW as you got larger nations DID band up against you. Didn't you notice that once you had a nice 40 province or so empire people became less and less willing to ally you, more willing to make war?

[Gottskalk]

Hmm maybe you are right maybe im playing the wrong game

Also, in MTW as you got larger nations DID band up against you. Didn't you notice that once you had a nice 40 province or so empire people became less and less willing to ally you, more willing to make war?

However I must disagree here . I once tried playing as the venetians (XL mod) i was playing historical achievements setting. Then like 8 turns after i begun the geonese attacked me and all my alliances in one turn (well maybe not all but i dont think the novgorods were going to help me ). Then i fought back and managed to retake my province. Then the germans attacked. I fended them off and went off to show them whose boss and took switzerland. Then the pope banished me. And a turn after he requested a crusade and guess what... a couple of turns later the damn english decide to go crusading on my a##. Oh well maybe i was pretty unlucky but at that point I attacked the pope, quit and deleted the save. Hmmm maybe it was the mod but about your theory with the "the more you take the more everybody around you start to get angry" i dont think the ai agrees.

but maybe im dead wrong.

[Lusted]

This is the TOTAL WAR series, and i love creating huge empires that span the map.

I remember a campaign from MTW, where as the english i had englad, france, scandinavia, and greece and bulgaria through crusades. THe egyptians had wiped out the turks and byzantines, and i was under constant attack from them. So i assembled a huge army, and attacked them, and as soon as i had taken most of their provinces, all my allies delcared war on me, because i was now too large and powerful.

[Giurza]

and yet one more time I will repeat myself... the supply system introduction would solve this matter. me myself don't like huge empires either... one just forgets what he is fighting for lol. but imagine if you would have to secure your routes of supply, it would slow down your expansion, even up to halting it at all... so in MII TW it would be perfect to have this kind of novelty... it is unimaginable to have france or england or scotland conquer 2/3 of europe by 1300's...

[Lusted]

I don't want suplly lines, i LOVE conquering the world! The whole point of TW is that you do things that didn't happen in history. Like someone said about RTW:

"Egypt never invaded Britain, but i just did".

[Owain_Glyndwr]

Hmm maybe you are right maybe im playing the wrong game



However I must disagree here . I once tried playing as the venetians (XL mod) i was playing historical achievements setting. Then like 8 turns after i begun the geonese attacked me and all my alliances in one turn (well maybe not all but i dont think the novgorods were going to help me ). Then i fought back and managed to retake my province. Then the germans attacked. I fended them off and went off to show them whose boss and took switzerland. Then the pope banished me. And a turn after he requested a crusade and guess what... a couple of turns later the damn english decide to go crusading on my a##. Oh well maybe i was pretty unlucky but at that point I attacked the pope, quit and deleted the save. Hmmm maybe it was the mod but about your theory with the "the more you take the more everybody around you start to get angry" i dont think the ai agrees.

but maybe im dead wrong.

Well, you played badly in that game. Firstly it's essential you ally your neighbours. That giant black blob is far less inclined to attack you if you're allied. Secondly, taking Switzerland was the reason you got excommunicated, and why you got angry. Excommunication is a big deal, nobody in their right mind would risk it so early on with a nation so weak.

If you played well, you would have allied your neighbours along with much of the world, and then over time you would have lost many of those allies and more and more nations will start being your enemy.