Next Total War Game Discussion

[atheniandp]

For me it is a no-brainer. Thirty Years' Total War (haven't read all 51 pages)

Think about it, plenty of different factions, religion plays a big part (though some may not like that) muskets and cannon exists but melee is still a very valid way of fighting.
There is great room for technical innovation and use of different tactics.

Welcome to the forum. Your suggestion is a good one, but I think it's a bit too limiting for CA (though they did occasionally make regional games, like the Shoguns, VI and Kingdoms). 17th century Europe is loaded with historical warfare, great basis upon which to build a game. Admittedly, though, they would need a lot of factions and scripted events in order to do the century justice..

[KuroKen]

I voted Rome 2, but after all the most important is a MODDABLE TW!!! Not like all those that came after med II!! I played much more with M2TW and its mods than S2TW because of the diversity of campaigns and units. With S2TW, after one or two campaigns, you saw them all! No fun although the game is technically fantastic!

[Derpy Hooves]

How many of you Rome fanboys would play a Rome II that is not moddable, has ETW CAI and ETW BAI and is about as historically accurate as ETW?

What you Rome fanboys don't realise is that CA has just done a sequel with two expansions (like the first RTW). Now why would it make sense to do another sequel? It doesn't look good to the investors because then it will look like CA is just rehashing old material. Investors want to see CA do more periods than the ones that have already been covered. And no, TW is not just suitable for ancient TWs, as there is only one ancient TW. All TWs except Rome have had gunpowder weaponry.

[Normandymaster]

How many of you Rome fanboys would play a Rome II that is not moddable, has ETW CAI and ETW BAI and is about as historically accurate as ETW?

What you Rome fanboys don't realise is that CA has just done a sequel with two expansions (like the first RTW). Now why would it make sense to do another sequel? It doesn't look good to the investors because then it will look like CA is just rehashing old material. Investors want to see CA do more periods than the ones that have already been covered. And no, TW is not just suitable for ancient TWs, as there is only one ancient TW. All TWs except Rome have had gunpowder weaponry.

You're so wrong. Investors would love a Rome 2 they may be are asking for it. Rome was successful and made CA famous. Rome 2 is a prospect of easy money easy marketing so easy profits for investors. A brand new game means more developing time (implies more cost), risks. Investors hate risks and costs. Why do you think sega just shot down aCA studio in Australia? To save money!

Rome 2 is the next. It will use the same engine as shogun 2, CA will use the work on Rome 1 and upgrade factions units and so on

[Derpy Hooves]

You're so wrong. Investors would love a Rome 2 they may be are asking for it. Rome was successful and made CA famous. Rome 2 is a prospect of easy money easy marketing so easy profits for investors. A brand new game means more developing time (implies more cost), risks. Investors hate risks and costs. Why do you think sega just shot down aCA studio in Australia? To save money!

Rome 2 is the next. It will use the same engine as shogun 2, CA will use the work on Rome 1 and upgrade factions units and so on

You are so wrong. Rome 2 will not be next as there was already a sequel. If Rome 2 is as successful and is easy money making as you say it is then why was it not done when the first RTW fanboy started clamoring for it?

The features of FOTS implies that the next TW will be a 19th century TW. You have not answered my opening question.

[Normandymaster]

Fots doesn't mean the next game is going to bet set in the 19th. Quite the contrary. At CA they are working on 2 tw games at a time. When shogun2 was released they had already started working on the next instalment. So features in the fots may not be in the next tw game.

[Yggdrasill]

I think we can get an idea of what the next game will be by guessing what it won't be.

IMO, CA will always take into account the commercial aspect. Obviously, they're a business that needs to be profitable to keep running. So, they will avoid what they consider to be a high risk product, or at least would try to temper that risk by adopting a safe game-risk game development cycle.

A victorian or later era TW game would definitely be a high risk game for them. Not only is this a completely new and untested era, it also bring a comletely new way of fighting to which TW game style is not that well suited without significant changes to the franchise. Also, I think it is fair to say that such late eras are not that popular, compared to say Rome or Medieval setting - most gamers associate TW games by and large with melee style fighting.
Even when releasing Empire and Napoleon a lot of people were unhappy with soo much gunpowder.....imagine going even further into the future, and making a game where there is virtually no melee fighting whatsoever? It would alienate so much of the fanbase (myself included) and open a window for competition to swoop in. I just don't see that happening.
Also, going back to Empire, out of 4 subsequent major releases, 3 of them were all about gunpowder ...Empire, NTW and now FOTS. I just don't see CA making a fifth major release again about firearms...and this time exclusively so....they will look into diversifying their offering. This is all about making the safe choice, catering to the needs of their diverse fanbase.

What I think is happening now, is that with the Fall of the Samurai CA are testing the waters - it's a bit of an experiment to see how the fans will react to such late period game. I think Victorian TW would be a tremendous high risk game for them. So they are tempering that risk by first releasing a game that will show them how much interest there is for this era, but not overreaching themselves by investing a completely new 'global' game. FOTS is an extention of an existing Shogun 2, and limited in scope and therefore in cost. Perfect for an experiment - if it goes well, I can imagine CA making a massive global Victoria game in their next development cycle...but not now. So the fact that FOTS is released now is for me a strong indication that whatever comes next it will not be Victoria.

CA will also look to reduce the risk of FOTS by making their next game 'a low risk safe' game...a safe choice, something that they know will hook the vast majority of their fanbase, something that is their bread and butter....

So I think that we can safely assume that whatever will come next, it will be a 'safe' game. That rules out stuff that is too exotic, like China TW (most gamers won't be able to relate well), or Ancient Near East TW (too little reliable historical info, too limited in methods of warfare taht were known at that time)....or anything covering 18th century and later eras with firearms for that matter, not after Empire, NTW anf FOTS all being about firearms...
Also, after the last 3 major stand-alone titles being limited in scope (NTW, Shogun 2, FOTS), the next TW will certainly be 'global'


So, what can we assume then? Future 'safe' TW will be a) non exotic (European based) b) non firearms centric c) global in scope


Whether CA considers a new sequel coming off the heels of Shogun 2 to be 'high risk' game, I have no clue. If yes, then I'm afraid it's a no go for Rome II. If sequels are not off the table, then it's Rome II, as the safest game around. One thing we can be sure of, is that it won't be Medieval 3...if CA is going for a sequel, it will be Rome 2, not Medieval 3.


Barring Rome 2, what else is there that fits the bill of a non-exotic, non sequel, melee game?

With Medieval 3 off the table, very little I think....it could be an early Middle age game, covering the Dark age, rise of Frankish empire and Islam, with Byzantium....so a 476-1000 period game...a strong contender

Or they can fit a game beteen Medieval 2 and Empire.....1500-1700 period, sort of an extended Renaissance.

So my guesses are:
1. Rome 2
2. Early Middle Age
3. Renaissance

[Normandymaster]

I agree with most of what you wrote. I've said most of the same earlier. Youdid a great analyse.

in fact:

-no risk for the next
-firearms very unlikely
-fots is a test for an empire2 or a Victoria game (more likely an empire 2then an expansion victoria)
-China impossible they just did shogun

The safest bet is Rome 2 and considering the past polls it's what we fans want most

[Yggdrasill]

I hope it's not Rome 2. Just a personal preference, I'd so much rather play a proper Renaissance TW. Something starting in 1492/94 (discovery of America, start of Italian wars), ending about 1600. Shorter time span for greater detail. Includes America, African coast, and Indian outposts of European Powers. Hell, you could even include China (Portugal started maritime commercial relations with China in 16th century), the Phillipines (Spanish colony)....lots of potential for exotic factions

Plus, it's such an attractive period - there are firearms, even surprisingly sophisticated (rifled wheelocks), but also old style knights in full plate, diverse infantry types (pikemen, haleberdiers, sword and buckler men, crossbowmen and bowmen, arquebusiers, militia types, eastern types - strelci, janissaries, ottoman infantry...virtually every type imaginable), mongols are still going strong in Eastern Europe like it's 1242 (for all those Gengis khan fans), hussars and eastern light cavalry is eveolving under pressure from the east, Islam-Christianity conflict is in full swing, in Europe the religious rift with the emergence of protestants is developing.
And all the time there is a gradual evolution of warfare and emergence of increasingly professional armies - appearance first of the Swiss and Landesknechts infantry, later Spanish tercios, the Dutch reforms, evolution of cavalry into heavy cuirassiers and light eastern hussar shock cavalry, and finally the pinnacle of evolution - the Swedish style battle lines....

And let's not forget the naval aspect - in the Mediterranean there are galley fleets with basically boarding actions as the primary means of warfare, and in the Atlantic the classic age of sail ships and tactics are slowly evolving...Spanish Armada anybody?


Basically this period would cover the most ground for most people, all in one neat package.

Expansions could be the English Civil War and Thirty Years War...ECW is so hugely popular in England, it would be a huge hit there all on its own. A guaranteed blockbuster DLC. And the TYW expansion...don't even get me started

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I am sure that this is the absolute best possible option for CA. It basically checks all the boxes it needs to be....it's global, it's not exotic to be a niche game (but at the same time has enough of the exotic feel not to feel bland and same-y like Shogun 2), it would appeal both to the firearm crowd and the cold steel diehards, it has Mongols, it has religious turmoil, there is interesting naval aspect, there is a lot of evolution within this time period not to feel stagnant (in a way that for example Shogun 2 does, and in some ways Rome 2 also would)....and it has never been done before.

It's the safest choice possible for CA

[Normandymaster]

As TW fans I think we are very numerous to wish for any TW games as long as it's improving the previously released and it's true to the franchise (TW DNA: History, GC maps.. ). The poll is totally clear: there's no doubt e want Rome 2! 51%! The next in line is only 7%! It's a no brainer!

It's even quite logical the way CA is working: they started a new tw games even before having finished shogun 2 (mike Simpsons daid it to eurogamer last year) the progress made in fots won't be in the coming game but in the next. So we can safely assume that the next could be without cannons, surely so Rome 2. The next will have cannons so empire 2 or Victoria (but I see more empire 2 then Victoria like did with Napoleon).

After that medieval3 is a possibility followed by a renaissance (as done with Napoleon)

So roughly:
2012 could see the release of rome 2
2013 an expansion (Alexander?p
2014 empire 2
2015 Victoria
2016 medieval3
2017 renaissance tw

But I'm no medium! Long live CA!

[magpie]

How many of you Rome fanboys would play a Rome II that is not moddable, has ETW CAI and ETW BAI and is about as historically accurate as ETW?

What you Rome fanboys don't realise is that CA has just done a sequel with two expansions (like the first RTW). Now why would it make sense to do another sequel? It doesn't look good to the investors because then it will look like CA is just rehashing old material. Investors want to see CA do more periods than the ones that have already been covered. And no, TW is not just suitable for ancient TWs, as there is only one ancient TW. All TWs except Rome have had gunpowder weaponry.

You raise a good point on a non moddable RTW Derpy.
There would be around 5 minutes of cheering if that game was released, Then the moans would start.
We want mod tools would be the cry.
Well SEGA/CA have moved on from the golden days of moddable epic length games to the faster turn round short campaign graphic rich games. Cuts development times and costs, with steam less distribution costs, more profit from DLC. Make your cash in a year and release another short game

[Lethal Jakkson]

Rome 2 Total War all the way

[Derpy Hooves]

You raise a good point on a non moddable RTW Derpy.
There would be around 5 minutes of cheering if that game was released, Then the moans would start.
We want mod tools would be the cry.
Well SEGA/CA have moved on from the golden days of moddable epic length games to the faster turn round short campaign graphic rich games. Cuts development times and costs, with steam less distribution costs, more profit from DLC. Make your cash in a year and release another short game

It is easier for me to get over this problem since ETW was my first game. I do wish we could do everything we could do with M2TW and RTW, but I won't me angry. Remember TW is the only series where you get to command thousands upon thousands of soldiers; no other series I know of allows you to do that.

[Normandymaster]

If CA does Rome 2 as we seem to be a lot to wish it. I hope they're going to dramatically improve the 1st and even shogun 2. We need mixed battle where you infantry and ships are on the battlefield and are playable. It was not uncommon in antiquity.

For the time period I hope they're going to begin circa 300BC because Rome was no superpower, they were a lot of factions in the Empire of the deceased Alexander.

[Heathen Hammer]

Most likely they'll release Victoria Total War or something similar in 2013, and than Rome II in 2014.

[Normandymaster]

Finally it would be funny to have a thread to place bets on the next tw, its features, release date and such. Ever contestant would be allowed one and only bet the winner will have everybody's admiration

[Éorl]

My bet is on Rome2. Now admire me.

[Halie Satanus]

I won't buy anything other than Rome II. Not only that but I'd be hard pressed to buy a Rome II with a limited faction list and endless DLC to unlock elements that should be available when released. Rome II will need to be very special to surpass the RTW mods that already expanded the original beyond all imagining, the features mods such as RTR/EB/RSII have added kept the original playable for 8 years, if II is un-modable it has to be the right side of awesome.. A tall order I guess...

[Sir. Cunningham]

Rome 2 Total War please!

[Cathedralsquares]

No one votes for fantasy total war. :<

Think about it! It would be the ultimate challenge, the complete test! Is CA bad enough dudes to give you the ability to create much of your own things?