Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Why the Tsar caused Russia to fall into revolution

  1. #1

    Default Why the Tsar caused Russia to fall into revolution

    OK, I think this will hurt my hands, but I'll give it a go.

    The Tsar, a demi-god to the Russian population, was an autocratic leader of Russia. The Tsar, during the early 1900s, was Nicholas II. He was essentially a family man, who had simple values and no real political experience. There was no real government in Russia, and the population was built on a feudal-type system. The Tsar and the Church worked hand in hand, where the Church praised the Tsar as a God and encouraged idolism of his pictures, and the Tsar in turn encouraged more people into the Church. We must remember, however, that Russia was split into two parts, Western (European) Russia and Eastern (Asian) Russia. The Western part of Russia was built up with Christians, mostly peasants but with some aristocratic societies that controlled them. The Eastern part was a very mixed land, with Armenians, Muslims, Mongols etc.

    The Tsar, in the pre-1905 days, was a quite popular man. But, when war broke out with the Japanese, the Russian population expected a huge victory. To put it bluntly, their army was a huge army of professional, well-trained men, and the Japanese/Chinese were small, yellow men that were to be put into their place. The Russians were quite extremist in their racism, and their anti-semitism was almost as harsh as the pre-Himmler semitism of Germany. The Russo-Japanese war was a huge defeat, and the Russians were dumbfounded. Their army had lost, the Japanese had won, and the morale of the citizens of Russia was at an all time low. The Tsar had failed to defeat the inferiors to the East, and the Russians feared more attacks in the cracks of weakness in Russia. They had to sign a humiliating treaty, and were very much defeated.

    Strikes and poverty were a large factor in Russia. 95% of the population were peasant-farmers or industrial workers, in the factories. Living conditions were atrocious, and child labour was still rampant. Many strikes had gone on, moderately small compared to what was to come. The major problem for the Tsar came in 1905, on 9 January. A band of almost 200,000 people, led by Father Dupon, marched on the Tsar's palace in St Petersburg. In Dupon's hand was a petition, signed by hundreds of thousands of people, asking for less harsh working conditions, lower taxes, and other small things. However, the Tsar had fled the city when he heard of a large riot stampeding towards his castle. In his place was the Russian army. The Cossacks were ordered to fire upon the crowd, and the rout became a massacre. Thousands of people died, and this dreadful event sparked off the 1905 revolution in Russia.

    Strikes became more common. One strikes made the Russian industry come to a standstill. Sailor mutinies, most famously on the battleship Potemkin, where the officers were killed and thrown overboard. The Tsar's uncle was assassinated in St Petersburg, and the idolisation of the Tsar became very weak. Two political parties sprung from this revolution, the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks. These were both Marxist parties, but had two very different theories. The Bolsheviks believed in a small, organised party, that was impenetrable to the Russian secret police, the Okhrana. They thought that the peasants were too stupid to rise in revolution, and they would follow anyone like sheep. They believed in a full-time revolutionary force. The Mensheviks, however, believed in a huge organisation, where the sleeping population would be awoken and would be made to revolt. The names (Bolshevik meant majority, Menshevik meant minority) came from one of the meetings of Marxists. After insulting the majority of the Mensheviks, who had left in anger, a vote was carried on which party would be followed. The Menshevik actually held the majority, but with a large group of people leaving, the Bolshevik party won the day.

    Lenin, the leader of the Bolsheviks, believed that Russia was not ready for a revolution. The Tsar knew of these uprisings, and he put a stop to it. He exiled Lenin and others such as Trotsky to Siberia, where the stayed for a long time. By 1906, the remaining leaders were dead or exiled, and the revolution had been forced to a stop. During the period of revolution and WW1, there were several laws passed. The Kulaks were introduced, hand-picked, rich peasants who were now able to sell and buy land. The strikes were still frequent, but less effective and not as widely reported. The Tsar set up a parliament, called the Duma, but he severely restricted it in what it could do. Every legislation had to pass through the Tsar, and was usually not passed due to this. Russia remained majorly autonomous.

    In 1914, the First World War broke out. Surprisingly, the population became fiercely patriotic. The Tsar was not expecting this, and not on such a large scale. The war was a European conflict, however, the Russian army could quite easily conscript a large force, which it did. The force measured around 13 million by the first year. However, the Russian industry could not deal with such a force. The army needed equipement, food, and weapons. The Double Entente, which comprised of Russia, France and Britain, was supposed to neutralise this problem. However, this did not happen. The army was left severely under-equipped.

    By 1915, the Russians had lost a significant number of soldiers on the Eastern Front. The two main offensives had made a small effect through Vilna and other Eastern European cities, and had saved the British/French soldiers a lot of hard work, but at the Russian's expense. The Tsar thought it his duty to lead the army himeslf. He left St Petersburg, leaving his wife Alexander, a German princess, in charge. Rumours began spreading, and due to the appaling control Rasputin had on Russians, people began talking of an affair between the two public enemies.

    Meanwhile, Nicholas II had given his men a short-term morale boost. With their Godlike figure, the Tsar, at the head of the army, the soldiers felt that they could tackle anything. This feeling of euphoria did not last, and the defeats piled on each humiliating defeat. The Tsar was inneffective as a leader, and a poor strategist. For example, the second offensive that the Russians led helped them capture numerous strongholds in Lithuania and Poland. However, the Tsar ordered the offensive to drive, and the steam soon ran out with more defeats. The Tsar was no longer a God, he was a failure.

    Lenin, accompanied with other revolutionary leaders, returned to Russia proper. The population had seen what had happened to the population, and the huge number of casualties. It is estimated, that out of 13 million peasant conscripts, 9.5 million were dead or wounded. By 1916, the Russians had had enough. Lenin took over the Bolshevik revolution, and overran Russia. Rasputin was executed, as were many others. The Duma, along with other committes and soviets (which means councils), had tried to create new subcouncils to try and create a two-way system with the population. The Tsar quickly dismissed these councils, and a month later he dismissed the Duma again.

    When more revolts flared, the Tsar ordered force to destroy them. The army did not accept this order, due to the fact that it was newly conscripted and had more in common with the strike force rather than the Tsar. This was the last straw for the Tsar. He knew that the war would not be won by the Russians, and he removed his force back to Russia to deal with the revolts. In March 1917, the Russian Revolution began. The Tsar abdicated, and put his brother Michael in his place. Michael refused the offer, and the soviets/Duma took over reluctantly. The autocratic system had ended, and Communist Russia, Karl Marx's dream, had begun.

    I, personally, believe that the Tsar was responsible for the Revolution. Leading the army was, in effect, his largest blunder. Although he added a short-term morale boost to the army, in the mid/long-term, it was disastrous. Even though the Tsar was not responsible for many of the mistakes, he was now the leader of the army, and had to answer for it. This was, in my opinion, his greatest mistake and the reason why the rest of Russia fell.

  2. #2
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default

    I agree and disagree with you. The Tsar's biggest mistake was not leading the army but abandoning his alliance with Germany. The Western Allies were against Russia in every operation and conflict in the Bulkans, and allied with Turkey in preventing Russia from taking Constaniople. Also, allied with Germany, the fact he had a German Wife, would not have been a problem, and Tsarist Russia could have stayed Tsarist. Another mistake was that he didn't know he had to give up some power to keep his power...
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  3. #3

    Default

    Tsarist Russia would not be Tsarist if it gave power to the Duma. It was an autocracy, and one that worked only because there was fierce patriotism and belief in the system, and the country, and the Tsar.

    (Can this be moved to articles? I think it might be more logical)

  4. #4
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus-Popat
    Tsarist Russia would not be Tsarist if it gave power to the Duma. It was an autocracy, and one that worked only because there was fierce patriotism and belief in the system, and the country, and the Tsar.

    (Can this be moved to articles? I think it might be more logical)
    Not neccessarily giving power to the Duma, but giving better working conditions, lowering taxes, and making the Duma more of a rubber stamp (making a decree that all decrees had to go through the Duma, but giving himself half the votes in the Duma)...
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  5. #5

    Default

    Which was why the 1905 Bloody Sunday massacre was such a disgrace. If the Tsar had listened to Father Dupon, and the Cossacks had not been left in charge, the whole subject could have been dropped. However, the Tsar fled from St Petersburg, which was a knock on effect of his low-abilitity as a Tsar.

  6. #6
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus-Popat
    Which was why the 1905 Bloody Sunday massacre was such a disgrace. If the Tsar had listened to Father Dupon, and the Cossacks had not been left in charge, the whole subject could have been dropped. However, the Tsar fled from St Petersburg, which was a knock on effect of his low-abilitity as a Tsar.
    Yea, I agree Tsar Nicolas, like Wilhelm II was an idiot, we just disagree on his most idiotic move...

    Edit: I forgot to add Franz Ferdinand was another idiot.."Hey three people just tried to kill me, and barely failed, I think I'll stay on the same route I was going..."
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  7. #7

    Default

    He didn't stay on the same route. I don't know whether he was traveling to the same spot he intended or if he was going to a hospital, but I know his cab driver took a turn into an alley that Gavrillo Princip just happened to be strolling through. I think.
    In Patronicum sub Seleukos.

    I am the living death
    The memorial day on wheels
    I am your yankee doodle dandy
    Your John Wayne come home
    Your Fourth of July firecracker
    Exploding in the grave -- Ron Kovic

  8. #8
    Hans Kloss's Avatar J-23
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Richmond upon Thames
    Posts
    1,616

    Default

    Lenin, accompanied with other revolutionary leaders, returned to Russia
    You mean he was actually sent there by Germans with their blessing and pockets full of marks.
    Kaiser's government not Tsar were responsible for outbreak of Bolshevik revolution (as successful attempt of knocking Russia out of war)
    Rasputin was never executed by Bolsheviks but killed by group of Tsarist officers in Dec 1916

  9. #9
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Louisville, Kentucky
    Posts
    12,895

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaven
    He didn't stay on the same route. I don't know whether he was traveling to the same spot he intended or if he was going to a hospital, but I know his cab driver took a turn into an alley that Gavrillo Princip just happened to be strolling through. I think.
    Yeah, he stopped at the hospital, to drop off the wounded soldier who got hit by bomb shrapnel when the explosive bounced off the car. Gavrilo just happened to be walking out of a cafe-ish place, when he saw Franz Ferdie and shot him.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    You mean he was actually sent there by Germans with their blessing and pockets full of marks.
    Kaiser's government not Tsar were responsible for outbreak of Bolshevik revolution (as successful attempt of knocking Russia out of war)
    Rasputin was never executed by Bolsheviks but killed by group of Tsarist officers in Dec 1916
    Yes, the Germans were responsible for a part of the revolution, but not all of it. The effects of the Tsar were long-term, hardcore events.

  11. #11
    Hans Kloss's Avatar J-23
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Richmond upon Thames
    Posts
    1,616

    Default

    Rejecting German peace offers were really the biggest fault of Tsar and later on Provisional Government (besides too lenient treatment of all sorts of revolutionaries )

  12. #12

    Default

    I don't think thats the case. The Germans, much like at Brest-Litovsk, would have given very harsh terms in a treaty. The Russians, after the Russo-Japanese war, would not be able to handle two major losses and humiliating treaties under the same Tsar. He would either be replaced, or the whole system would.

  13. #13
    Hans Kloss's Avatar J-23
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Richmond upon Thames
    Posts
    1,616

    Default

    You see Spartacus...I don't think Tsar or someone like Kierensky would have ever sign treaty like Bolsheviks did at Brest. Situation of Russia in late 1916 was bad but not critical, otherwise Tsar would have found way of withdrawing Russia from war and he would have accepted Kaiser's proposals which incidentally were not as harsh as those imposed on Bolsheviks. Decision to continue war on side of Entante cost Nicolas II dearly - eventually he paid for that with his own life (and lives of his family). On the other hand Bolsheviks had no choice but signed the treaty.

  14. #14
    Kscott's Avatar New and Improved!
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Wtf
    Posts
    6,360

    Default

    Moved to the article foru,, debate is still encouraged

    If your wondering why it took so long to get here, its simply because I think leaving it in the VV for a few days is best

    Patron of Basileous Leandros I/Grimsta/rez/ Aemilianus/Publius/ Vizigothe/Ahiga /Zhuge_Liang Under Patronage of Lord Rahl
    MY TWC HISTORY

  15. #15

    Default

    Ah, ok, thats fine.

    @ HK: A valid point, but the Russians would not be able to stand another humiliating defeat under the Tsar. He was already seen as weak and less of a demi-god that the Tsar should be. It would have to be entire victory or r/evolution from Tsarist autonomy.

  16. #16

    Default

    I agree with the article's general concept, but:

    The autocratic system had ended, and Communist Russia, Karl Marx's dream, had begun.
    This is not true. Marx thought that Russia would not be the appropriate country to test and lead his communist experiment. He stated that Russia was too large and archaic to ever endure a successful communist revolution.


    The rest is , as I agree that Russia's failure in stability and its ensuing bloody revolution was indebted to the Tsar's foolhearty inexperience and naivite.
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

    Proud patron of: The Magnanimous Household of Siblesz
    Timendi causa est nescire.
    Member of S.I.N.

  17. #17
    MoROmeTe's Avatar For my name is Legion
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    An apartment in Bucharest, Romania
    Posts
    2,538

    Default Re: Why the Tsar caused Russia to fall into revolution

    Probably the biggest fault in encouraging the October Revolution was not the Tsar but rather the Provisional Government led by Kerensky. The Tsar was topled earlier and Kerensky led the Provisional Government. As proven by the subsequent elections the Socialist Revolutionary (SR) party had the biggest support in the country... They had a paramilitary arm and were trusted by the population. On the other hand the Bolsheviks really only controled the Petrograd soviet. Lenin was not to be seen since his return from exile and their aim of violent overthrow of the regime was known.

    Yet, Kerensky was not able to limit the spread of Bolshevik propaganda even after Lenin made clear that he regarded the Provisional Government as being as bad as the Tsarist regime and that he was preparing for a coup d'etat. He also failed to see how withdrawal from WWI would have allowed him to concentrate on the problems of Russia proper.

    Of course the Tsar made the Revolution in February happen but the October Revolution (which should be named the October Coup d'Etat, really) could have been avoided if the SR's were more united and Kerensky more heavy handed in his approach to power...


    In the long run, we are all dead - John Maynard Keynes
    Under the patronage of Lvcivs Vorenvs
    Holding patronage upon the historical tvrcopolier and former patron of the once fallen, risen from the ashes and again fallen RvsskiSoldat

  18. #18

    Default Re: Why the Tsar caused Russia to fall into revolution

    Another mistake of Kerensky is the formation of the Red Guard, later to be called the Red Army. I believe he set it up to fight off Kornilov in his revolt against Kerensky, but his troops disbanded and mutinied anyway, so the Red Guard was just a time bomb.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Why the Tsar caused Russia to fall into revolution

    No offence, but this was obviously written by a westerner.
    Not that it's a bad article, but it feels strange and seems to misunderstand the general atmosphere of things.
    He didn't stay on the same route. I don't know whether he was traveling to the same spot he intended or if he was going to a hospital, but I know his cab driver took a turn into an alley that Gavrillo Princip just happened to be strolling through. I think.
    Nah, the car stalled (pre WWI cars weren't exactly reliable) near where Gavrilo went for a sandwhich to cheer himself up after the assassination failed.

    You mean he was actually sent there by Germans with their blessing and pockets full of marks.
    Kaiser's government not Tsar were responsible for outbreak of Bolshevik revolution (as successful attempt of knocking Russia out of war)
    The revolution would have happenned anyway, Kerenski controlled the country only in theory, he was an ineffective man who loved to speak.
    You know when he took his first action against the various revolutionary groups which by that time were de fact independent from Russia?
    October 24th, 1917.
    One day later Trotsky and Lenin decided it was time to end the nuisance that was the Duma, and the storm of the winter palace (not actualy a storm, but I don't feel like elaborating unless someone asks me) happenned.
    And Germany sent every revolutionary they could find to Russia with a pocketful of marks, only Lenin seemed to be the one that actualy got somethind done.
    Rasputin was never executed by Bolsheviks but killed by group of Tsarist officers in Dec 1916
    No, he was executed by Duke Yusupov and two accomplices, who were acting independently of the Tsar (who was heavily influenced by Rasputin).
    Unfortunately afterwards the ills of the country could not be blamed on Rasputin's influence, the Tsar was seen as weak and the Tsaritsa was always hated as she was a German and borderline psychotic at that.
    You see Spartacus...I don't think Tsar or someone like Kierensky would have ever sign treaty like Bolsheviks did at Brest. Situation of Russia in late 1916 was bad but not critical, otherwise Tsar would have found way of withdrawing Russia from war and he would have accepted Kaiser's proposals which incidentally were not as harsh as those imposed on Bolsheviks. Decision to continue war on side of Entante cost Nicolas II dearly - eventually he paid for that with his own life (and lives of his family). On the other hand Bolsheviks had no choice but signed the treaty.
    The bolsheviks signed it because by the time they were in power no semblance of an army existed and Germans could march on Moscow and Petrograd unopposed.
    And the German people wouldn't have been satisfied with such a bad peace, after loosing hundreds of thousands they would want some gains, and a revolution in Russia would happen if the Tsar surrendered to the hated Germans (and I bet the Tsaritsa would be blamed).
    Ironicaly, the Tsar was not in the least bit Russian.
    His father was a German who was borderline illiterate when it came to Russian, and the new Tsar was falf German half Danish with negligible Russian blood.

    Make no mistake about it, the Kerenski government was practically powerless and controlled little outside of St. Petersburg.
    The armies were only kept together by their commanding officers, and were highly demoralised, but after Kerenski's failed offensive in the summer, the troops collectively threw down their weapons and ran east.
    Kerenski had very little popular support by the end of his reign.
    The main reason there was no storm of the winter palace is because there were not enough deffenders to organize any sort of line of deffence against a storm.





Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •