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Thread: sassanian military analysis

  1. #1

    Default sassanian military analysis

    Greetings TWC community, Due to BI coming out the amount of mods including the Sassanian Persians has skyrocketed. However the concept of the Sassanian military has been vastly missed by the large majority of gamers recently - notably CA. Hence I wrote this compilation of research to define utterly the Sassanian army and how it looked. I may also post their tactics if Someone needs them. But for modding the Sassanian army I urge everyone to use this list as the basis for them. This is the most historically accurate list i could make. There were many more units in the army but i have chosen these as the most exciting and appropriate for the modding of RTW.

    This next point is very crucial, it would have been impossible to reference every point to every author. Suffice to say I owe ALL of this information to the historians listed in the bibliography. I have tried to make as many insights as I can on the sassanian army but i will not take any credit for the actual researching of the original units.

    This community has provided me with endless ambition and entertainment in history and for gaming. This is my first contribution to TWC, all modifications and most importantly the Sassanian soldiers who have been dishonoured and forgotten by history. I do not pretend that this information is rock solid truth, because no history is. But in my years of Persian research this is the best compilation of everything I have found. Enjoy -

    Right first i'll make a few general notes about the organization of the army then get down to the list and changes.

    firstly, the unit name for the Sassanian elite cavalry in pahlavi is Savaran (there is no "w" in persian) This applies to every trained unit of cavalry. whilst they all go under the same name of Savaran there are many different regiments. Each would have its own commander, standard at perhaps something special that brought them fame such as the Sassanian version of the immortals cavalry ( but i will deal with them later)

    So basically, there are no specific different sets of cavalry such as heavy, medium or light. The system works by how each commander uses his troops and how they arm their troops. (persian nobles were expected to arm their troops by themselves). Ergo we have many different prestige units with differing styles of heraldry and skill but all under the same title of Savaran.

    Every unit we create must be given an officer with a standard (Drafsh in pahlavi). Each standard should be different to reflect the different noble's cavalry. Furthermore, Savaran would also attach meddalions to their horses, these would also be different according to the rider and his family. So different units should also have different meddalions. I shall endavour to get some pics of the different meddalions and standards the Savaran units used. Quite importantly the Medallions were attached not only to the horses but on belt buckles and sword straps and Guards of the Savaran. On top of this, the Sassanian noble families also had specific coats of arms. This heraldry could go anywhere but most likely on the shield, examples of heraldry are
    A stag - pawing the ground, elongated horns (but not extremely)
    A stallion - pawing the ground
    A lion - ready to pounce (detailed mane)
    An ibex - with a cape
    A tiger - in mid pounce
    A jackal - mouth open
    A Trident - Facing upwards
    A boar - pouncing
    A bear - crouching
    A palm tree - six branches
    Twin black and white snakes - entwined in a helix
    A seven headed dragon - head on, with wings outstretched
    An Eagle - Outstretched wings and legs (very achaemenid)
    An Elephant - charging it seems.

    I will endeavour to place these emblems with the right unit but it is not specific so we can choose what and where.

    Now i shall examine each unit of Savaran in detail according to looks, skill and arms.

    The Pushtigbhan
    The commander's title - Pushtighban-Salar

    looks
    Firstly the Pushtighban (royal guard in pahlavi). They numbered around 1000 men and in peace time they were the royal guard regiment in the capital (Ctestiphon). In order to emulate their Achaemenid predeccesors the Sassanian nobility would wear shades of green, dark blue, red and purple for the richest. These colours can apply to all cavalry but purple is appropriate for the royal guard. Furthermore white has always been a sacred colour for the Achaemenids and Zoarastrians so I would suggest white horses for this very rich unit. And also a white horse for every officer, general and King. The sassanian dress comprises a tunic reaching down to, by practicality and preference, the hip with cloth or as far as the knees when concerning mail. This unit should have mail covering their chest and down to the lower thigh but trousers should be visible down to soft brown riding boots of leather. Sassanans wore armour down to their hands but the very rich such as the Pushtighban could afford gauntlets. they all wear beards of course, these probably won't be visible but just for all other units so you know. Sassanian nobles were always depicted with beards. Now as a final fancying up of them we can give them either a cloth waist coat to cover their chest not arms (possible heraldry placement), or a sleeveless garment of cloth which reaches to the knees and is (for this unit) studded with a FEW gems. Don't get carried away, their costume was heavy enough without extra rocks! Their armour can be gilded gold r silver, but not totally covered - also too much weight.

    Arms
    The royal guards themselves would have most likely wore the spangenhelm. it was constructed using a frame and a headband to join four or six metallic pieces by rivets. Typically 22-24cm in height and 20cm width. Generally made of 4 iron segments and the metallic bands fastened with bronze rivets. For this rich unit i would suggest overlaying the four segments with silver or gold sheets ( 0.1 - 0.2 cm thickness) as this was the custom among the Savaran. Decoration on Sassanian helmets and even swords is usually of a Griffon (Simurgh in Pahlavi) and also feather or wing designs.

    The sword has a broad guard and long straight blades, hung byone strap to the left side of the horseman and a globe shapped pommel. The pushtighban sword was undoubtedly decorated with feathers, wings or a meddalion on the center of the guard. I would rather the royal guard used swords instead of maces as the nobility are Always depicted with swords. the length was around 1 - 1.11m and a width of approximately 5 - 8.5cm. They were used in one hand ( although two can be applied, I have seen one up close) and the Sassanian grip was used to maximise penetrating power, the sword is gripped with the index finger over the guard and used to "punch" out at the enemy. (this grip is limited to cavalry mind you, infantry used more conventional styles). The scabbard is usually enclosed by a "V" shaped decorative plate, and the scabbard itself decorated with feather like engraving. It is suspended by one strap and the sword is worn on the left of all the Savaran soldiers.

    The lance is similar to the Parthian Kontos, being held in both hands on the righthand side of the horse's head at waist level. Heliodorus says the sassanians were able to impale two men (Leigionnaries most likely) with one thrust.

    The bow is worn on the right side of the Savaran, supported with the left hand and drawn with the right. The early Sassanians carried both bow and arrows in the same case. the bow itself is of the composite structure ( made from horn, wood and sinew). The bow is effective to kill at 175m according to Karalusas and the accurate range of the bow is around 60m. The idea of firing at this range is a deadly shower, not pinpoint hits, before the charge. Sassanians used rings on their ring and middle fingers (the drawing fingers of the Persians) and they were attached securely by a chain which came down to the wrist, crossed over and went back to the other ring. the index finger points down the shaft of the arrow, presumably for stability whilst riding. The persians are noted for their archery skills, if any say in the stats is mine, the persians should have a very high rate of fire and very accurate but of less penetrating power because the persian draw goes only to the chest not the ear. I suggest thirty to forty arrows in the quiver.

    The early Sassanian Savaran did not use shields to a great extent, but considering the mod and game cover the development of the army through the time period, I suggest shields for at least the top ranking cavalry. The sassanian cavalry shield was circular and varyingly small (buckler style) coming up to middling size, around 2 foot diameter in size. Id give the Pushtigbhan a circular 2 foot diameter shield with heraldry embalzoned (see below). Possibly in dark blue or gold if neccessary.

    Because of limitations on the number of weapons I'd give them the spear and sword, because the multitude of other cavalry will have bows.

    standard
    Since the Pushtighban are the royal guard unit, they should certainly carry the kings national banner with their officer. This is the Drafsh - e - Kaviani. (I won't bore you with the details of it's origin but least to say it was incredibly inspiring to troops on the field. In the end it was torn apart by invading arabs and the jewels all sold off.) I have placed a picture of this banner at the bottom.

    Heraldry and medallions
    For the Pushtighban I would suggest the lion for heraldry and on their medallions should be a persian dragon (images will be posted as soon as i fix my scanner or at the least use my digital camera).

    Armour
    Sassanians used four different types of armour - Lamellar, laminated, scale and mail. Lamellar is of central asian origin and made up of rectangular pieces of metal (Iron, bronze or leather) laced together vertically and horizontally. This is typical of 4th century Sassanians, which are shown wearing a sleeveless lamellar cuirass over a mail coat. Laminated armour is constructed of metal strips fashioned into circular bands, mounted, overlapping horizontally, on a leather sleeve. This armour was used to the end of the dynast as arm and leg protection. Scale armour is made from small metal scales laced horizontally onto a backing material so that the scales would overlapp. Larger scales protected vulnerable parts of the body (Chest, back and thighs) and smaller scales were placed near the joints for manouverability. We all know what mail armour is, but the Sassanians used it to fashion coats which grew longer in the later reforms. Early styles reflect a more tunic like apperance wheras late Sassanians wore a full coat.
    The main advantage in Sassanian armour was that they combined all these different types to maximise strengths. For the Pushtigbhan I would suggest a mail tunic, Lamellar breastplate (covered in cloth if you wish) and laminated leg armour. Furthermore the mail should reach down the arms untill they meet the gauntlets. Sassanian knights were reputed to have to be lifted on to their mounts because of the weight! The horse of this paticular unit should be given a frame saddle with four points jutting over the legs of the rider to keep him in lace during the charge. Later Sassanians used stirrups but i'll leave this up to you. The horse armour s reported by heliodorus to be covering the whole horse in the late 4th century. Hence all Savaran units should have horses covered in Lamellar armour with cloth barding on the richer units. The Pushtighban would probably not risk the damage of purple on the horse it was likely to take, so I would venture dark red or dark blue on the horse's barding. The medallions would be affixed by straps reaching around the horse's neck ( a sort of horse necklace. the attachment clasp being under the saddle's cloth).

    The skill of these warriors should be unparralelled, they (like all Savaran) were from a warrior class and tradition which means constant training. furthermore the empire was almost constantly at war on one of their many fronts. Hence their battle experience would be high and as such their morale and stats excellent.

    With that monster out of the way the description of other units should be easier

    The Zhayedan (immortals in Pahlavi)
    Title of the commander - Varthragh-Nighan Khvahdhay

    The name armtaka is achaemenid and is a nickname meaning "applebearer" because of the golden apples the elite soldiers carried on the butts of their spears. The real name of the Immortals is Arstibara meaning spear. But thats fairly irrelevant. What is important - this unit was an elite reserve unit used to charge into combat at the turning point and in the crucial area. The Zhayedan were kept at 10,000 men according to tradition, and their arms and heraldry reflected Achaemenid ancestry to inspire their troops.

    Looks
    Since they are their to emulate the Achaemenids I would suggest long visible red tunics, leather riding boots, no gauntlets but leather gloves because they will be using a bow. A sleeveless lamellar cuirass as well certainly with a cloth covering. The cloth should have an outstretched eagle in yellow to reflect Achaemenid Imperialism (Cyrus the great was the first to use an eagle standard). Id also have no leg armour but the tunic reaching to the upper thighs. And baggyish trousers down to the boots, also in red. (but colours are totally open to debate these are just my opinions) Of course mail and armour are in darkish metallic colours for most Sassanians. But the Zhayedan and Pushtighban can have gilded armour to reflect their prestige.

    Arms
    Their helmet should be of the Spangenhelm style

    The Zhayedan were paticularly interesting in that their lance was modelled on the Achaemenid spear. I.E with a gold or silver sphere as a counterweight on the butt and probably shorter than the Kontos but used in the same manner.

    They should use the sassanian sword in the punching sassanian style (if possible)

    Shields (if truly reflecting Achaemenid style) could possibly be wooden and in the violin shape but this is speculation. If you really wanted it we could use it, but for utter accuracy I'd give them no shield and a two handed animation.

    They also carried bows as described above.

    but as we can only have two weapons Id give them the bow and spear, because of Achaemenid links.

    Standard
    The standard carried by the officer should be modelled on the Achaemenid Eagle, I.E an eagle outstretched wings and the legs outstretched and grasping spheres.

    Heraldry and medalions
    Their heraldry should reflect eagles as I described above perhaps emblazoned on their chests in gold. The medallions however can be anything we'd like, id suggest the "warrag" style of a kneeling ram (pics to follow).

    Armour as described above they should have mail tunics with a lamellar cuirass, a cloth covering with emblazonry. No leg armour or fist armour but mail covering the arms.

    The horse should have a vast array of medallions and tassles but leave the barding as a special sign of royalty in the Savaran.

    The skill of this unit is also unquestionable, as all savaran they should have excellent stats and morale. But like all Savaran be very expensive.

    Gyan-avspar (The Sacrificers of their lives in Pahlavi)
    Also known colloquially as the Peshmerga, the title of their commander is not known. Chosen specifcally for their bravery these men could be relied upon to fight like lions until their deaths.

    Looks
    The Gyan-avspar should be a no nonsense combat unit. Chosen for their bravery rather than nobility or Family ties they do not have to impress men with their status, only their fighting ability. Hence they should wear a dark green and long tunic. Their trousers can be a muddy brown colour or something suitably dark. But not raggedy, Persians were not barbaric (though you doubtless know this). Brown riding boots are also applicible. They do not need a cloth covering for their armour.

    Arms
    They should wear a ridge helmet to reflect their armoured approach and lack of funds compared to the high nobility. This is a helmet which is made in two pieces, the height is around 25-26cm and the width is 16cm. The two half skull pieces were joined together by two riveted iron bands and mail hung down from the lower edge.

    These men also used a Kontos

    I would suggest a Shield of white in the smaller circular pattern.

    As a secondary weapon they should carry a Mace. The Sassanian mace is made from iron and ranges from 40 - 55cm in length. Thickness varies, but the mace the Parthian cataphract carries in rtw vannila is a replica sassanian mace. Use that if you can.

    whilst they would have carried a bow and a sword as well, i believe the mace is the weapon for the grittiest soldiers.

    Standard
    It has been speculated that the Gyan-avspar were so brave and fearless because of religous conviction. Whether or not this is true, I believe the Zoarastrian symbol (zoaroaster on a winged disc) Is a good banner for this unit.

    Heraldry and medallions
    The Heraldry of this unit could quite easily be the twin snake helix - as this embodies an offensive nature and i think quite suits such a deadly unit. The Medalions could be of a boar (no reason apart from its that or the cockrell).

    Armour
    The armour of this unit should be a lamellar breastplate with laminated armour on both legs and arms. Give them gauntlets as well because a mace does not have guards like a sword, their hands will need protection. The laminated armour should not overlap his boots or his gauntlets but go under them.

    The horse should be fully armoured but with no barding.

    The skills of this unit are as excpected excellent but should nigh on always fight to the death. Not to make the other Savaran cavalry seem as though they would not fight to the last. But this unit should do it very frequently.

    Now that gets the Elite and famous Savaran out of the way. More famous units arose later on in the empire, but three is enough I think. Now for the other cavalry.

    Women are reported to fight in Sassanian armies but I'd hesitate to put them in the same league as the elite Savaran merely because of the unbelievable stamina needed and more importantly the Savaran were mostly nobles and a noble lady is unlikely to fight. (absolutely no doubt there were female Savaran, but an entire unit is better represented by men because of ratios favouring masculinity in an army). Hence I would have a medium cavalry unit represented by women as a mainly archer role. ergo -

    The Sardar (unknown in Pahlavi either medium cavalry or female warrior)

    Women were given fairly equal oppurtunities throughout Persian rules from cyrus's time. There were 2 sassanian empress's. The sardar may have been lighter armed than a Savaran, but their speed was a weapon just as powerful.

    Look
    The Sardar should have a mail coat extending to the thighs and a sleeved crimson shirt on top of this which cuts off at the waist. under the mail tunic go tighter trousers in a red colur. Brown boots but no gloves as they will use their bows to a greater degree than the Savaran.

    Arms
    They should wear a ridge helmet, but without the underlay of mail so we can actually see they are women.

    The Sardar main weapon should be the bow, as described above.

    The secondary weapon should be the sword as a rather more graceful weapon for a lady.

    No shield is needed

    Standard
    The Sardar standard should be the same standard you have in the current sassanian faction icon. Its a standard Sassanian banner but it needs to be used somewhere. And theres no reason they can't have it.

    Heraldry and Medallions
    The heraldy can be the trident as osprey pictures show female warriors as wearing the trident symbol on the froont of her cloth shirt in silver. They do not need medallions on their horses as that is a trait of heavy cavalry. The heraldry is still familyand unit insignia.

    Armour
    A mail coat covered by her red shirt is enough for the Sardar.

    The horse needs no armour but give it a plate for its head-nose ridge, as that is in the Sassanian style.

    Elephants
    Not much remains on Persian elephant descripton but they are recorded at many battles. I can tell you they were used in the same charge as the Savaran ( at leat in shapur I's time) So they were intended for close combat. And the were well drilled enough to keep formation and cohesion with regualr cavalry. That said many elephants ran amok in battles against the arabs during the invasion.

    Look
    As an indian elephant with a wooden howdah - three archers of the normal sassanian type (see below) can fit inside. But i understand mechanics of the game mean we get two. A cloth or rug would go under it along with two straps for support.

    Arms
    The elephant fights with its natural weapons

    Archers fire bows, no javelins to my knowledge

    Standard
    Non applicable

    heraldry and medallions
    if you can find a place on the archers for the elephant heraldry then go ahead. No medallions needed.

    Armour
    Tricky as it seems to vary, I would go for scarce armour as it is the early empire we are dealing with but still you will have to use posted pics for the majority of Elephant work.

    Essentially that should cover the PERSIAN cavalry as no middle cavalry is ever mentioned as a specific different unit. As I have stated above the Sassanians only had Savaran and perhaps the Sadar mixed among them, but the sardar would invariably fight differently leading me to place them as a seperate unit. The idea of Sassanians placing Heavy cavalry (cataphract) then lesser cavalry (clibanarii) down to horse archers is a false assumption. The sassanians merely had Savaran, they did the cavalry job, but different nobles approached it differently in arming their men so different styles of Savaran emerge. But they are still Savaran.

    The distinction between cataphract and clibanarii is a blunder, The word cataphract comes from greek cataphractoii we all know this. The word clibanarii is a nickname for the cataphract by roman soldiers. The clibanarius is a roman oven and the armour of the Sassanians can be compared to an iron oven in many ways! Hence two names arise and two units seem to have emerged in interpretations of this.

    HOWEVER, the sassanians recruited many forms of light cavalry from foreign areas that were still essentially Iranian. I think the most important to include should be Lahkmid Arabs, Chionites and Afghani Saka. I however have far less info on these units and must be brief.

    Lahkmid arabs - No real armor, very swift cavalry using bow and sword. Ideal for raids and harrasing the enemy. I have no depictions so go for light garments, trousers and a shirt, nothing heavy. Primary weapon bow and secondary short sword. Mainly horse archers but not able to handle combat like the Sardar.

    Afghani Saka - I would advise almost the same as the arabs BUT, they need a mail coat, so they are slower but they are better archers.

    Chionites - More a middle cavalry role, spangenhem helmet (poor quality) lamellar breat plate (no mail) and trousers. Spear and bow equppied but primarily spear armed. They along with the saka should look more barbarian and northern if possible. This being less barbarian for the Saka as they had settled in Afghanistan for a while now.

    Other than this I will need other research material as my specialty is the Persian troops. Sorry for the brevity. The look of this unit is entirely down to any osprey pics found. or the skinner's creative genius.

    Infantry

    Information on Sassanian infantry is sparse and contradictory. However, in a case where a roman (marcellinus) praises Sassanian infantry i doubt he has much reason to lie, it only demoralizes his troops. Belisarius's stinging words however are far more likely to be taken as fabrications because his words are taken from a speech to his men before battle.

    Hence I will go on the belief that there were very competent heavy infantry among the Sassanians, but doubtless also foolsish peasants were taken to war.

    Paighan (Militia in Pahlavi)

    The Paighan were recruited from peasant populations. each unit was commanded by a Paighan-Salar. They were mainly used to guard baggage trains, serve as pages to the Savaran, dig trenches and storm city walls. Their military training and morale were inevitably low as was their combat efficiency.

    The look
    I saw some screenshots on twc of Sassanian levy spearmen and you have it perfect already. But I do advise to make sure their sword is not a short shameful little thing. The sassanian broadsword was standard issue and one of the fore fathers to the crusader style swords.

    Arms
    You already have it covered

    Standard
    I think the infantry standard (for all infantry I mean, family insignia is not needed as the nobles are on horseback) should be the head of a griffon ( for inspiration see the columns of Persepolis - the birds ath te top are what the Sassanians based their griffon on).

    Heraldry and Medallions
    none

    Armour
    None

    Sassanian infantry (Pahlavi not given)
    As a far more reliable spearmen unit the Persian infantry were given the trust of being placed in the front and center of some sassanian formations. They were commented on by Heliodorus as a match for a leigionnary,(But I would place them only as good as the average roman warrior of the time). Marcellinus describes them as armed like gladiators and obeying orders like soldiers servants. In other words well drilled and heavily armed.

    Looks
    I would have them look similar to the Sassanian levy spearmen unit Except for a long coat of mail reaching to the upper thigh, tied with a belt at the middle.

    Arms
    A ridge helmet

    A 6 foot spear is the persian tradition

    The secondary weapon should be a sword equal to a Savaran's.

    A higher quality shield (decorated and less levy like in appearance). Give them dark green and beige instead of the levy grey, its a better distinction.

    Standard
    same as above

    Heraldry and medallions
    none, but a stag on their shield is a possibility.

    Armour
    A good coat of mail

    This unit is not the usual persian stereotype, they can hold their own with the best

    Dailamites
    Recruited from northern iran these are a fierce people respected by the romans.

    Look
    The same trouser and tunic look will suffic but they must have brighter colours.

    arms
    A ridge helmet

    A two pronged spear used like a pilum

    A heavy Savaran sword

    A brightly decorated Shield with perhaps the seven headed dragon emblazoned

    Standard
    see above

    heraldry and Medallions
    possibly the dragon

    armour
    mail coat and lamellar breatplate

    should have great morale

    Sassanian archers
    under the command of a Tirbad Sassanian archers were very profficient in their work. They would fire in organised voleys so the arrows never stopped. The tirbad co ordianted this

    Look
    Tunic and trousers, darkish colours, the same hat the levy sassanian spearman have.

    Arms

    no helmet

    Bow

    Sword

    Standard
    see above

    heraldry and medallions
    none

    armour
    none

    Royal archers
    100 men given the task of defending the throne until death. small unit size and very expensive I say.

    Look
    Dark blue tunic over heavy mail and trousers, a ridge helmet with mail underlay and a yellow horsehair plume.

    Arms
    Ridge helmet

    Bow

    Heavy Savaran Sword

    Standard
    the same as the Pushtighban standard

    Heraldry and medallions
    Same as the Pushtghiban

    Armour
    heavy mail coat with sleeveless tunic covering the chest (put heraldry here)

    These guys don't run away and are good in combat as well as excellent at archery.
    Treat them as dismounted Savaran.

    Sassanian artillery- Sassanians are reported to use ballistae and onagers. Strangely they never used captured roman engines.

    Lastly for the infantry there are many recorded examples of the magii going to the battlefield and being stationed at the command post for morale most likely. I doubt they were armed suitably for battle. But if you want a druid like unit you can include them.

    That concludes the infantry though I do have a couple of closing notes. firstly, Sassanian infantry is credited with many heroic defences and fighting to the death notably at petra. This leads me to believe that the Savaran dismounted to fight on the walls in sieges, when not sallying forth. Can you think of any way to include this in game?

    Also on medallions, if an animal is too complex, simple patterns are just fine.

    im sure i have forgotten things and will amend as I go.

    Main Sources
    Joesef Wieshoffer - "Ancient Persia"
    Dr Kaveh Farrokh - "Sassanian elite cavalry"
    S.G.W Benjamin - "Persia"
    Richard N. Frye - "The heritage of Persia"
    Ammianus Marcellinus - "the later roman empire"
    Firdowsi - "Shanameh"
    Heliodorus - "Aethiopica"
    Maurice - "Strategikon"

    Lastly, there were a few more different Savaran units that you could include if you have the time and space. Furthermore there were also many more auxillaries used in the army such as armenian savaran, the Lahkmid arabs etc

    However The soghdian infantry have been given far FAR too much attention due to an osprey picture and then CA's apparent interest in them. The soghdian's are barely able to be credited as a real unit. Sources are scarce and I could not give you conclusive evidence of their existence
    Thanks

    - Rez

  2. #2
    Kscott's Avatar New and Improved!
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    Wow, extremely informative!

    What would you say the most signifigant changes were from Achaemenid to Sassinid arms?

    Patron of Basileous Leandros I/Grimsta/rez/ Aemilianus/Publius/ Vizigothe/Ahiga /Zhuge_Liang Under Patronage of Lord Rahl
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    It's really interesting that the Sassanian Military culture seemed to really be the first step towards the Knightly type of fighting we are so used to. Those smart Persians!

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    Actually the first step came from the parthian feudal system - this actually allowed for knights in a very similar manner to the later medieval versions. The sassanians really refined the system and made it even more comparable to a european knight.

    The most profound change from the achaemenids would probably be the increased use and development of armour. Cavalry tactics and close combat were also far more developed due to facing an enemy such as the romans who don't rely on archers and focus on the melee.

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    kambiz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Hi rez;
    Absolutely great read .You are a very good and talented young history expert (Well ,I'm not so old too ,just 22 years old :tooth: )

    In your article you say : "The soghdian's are barely able to be credited as a real unit. Sources are scarce and I could not give you conclusive evidence of their existence".
    So What about Deylammit infantry.I know sassanids had their own type of somehow ,Commitatense ,So What do you suggest for this class of infantry(medium to heavy infantry) for sassanids?

    Thanks a million my dear friend ,Keep up the good work
    -Kambiz
    Last edited by kambiz; September 17, 2006 at 04:41 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Thanks for your kind words kambiz!

    The Dailamites are far more well documented and easily reproducable in my opinion.

    The Romano/Byzantine historians tend to give good accounts of how well the Dailamites stood up even to Romano/Byzantine heavy infantry. Notably in Agathias 3.17.

    They were a fierce people located in the northern part of modern iran. Noted for their spectacular use of the sword and dagger. Archealogical finds in that area show that they were likely using the same heavy longswords as the Savaran. Furthermore a large find of archer's finger caps show they must have been proficient with the bow. But most interestingly the dailamites also appeared to have used the two pronged javelin.

    Their shields were brightly painted and this tradition influenced the later islamic armies in the region. When the Arabs conquered Persia they found it impossible to subdue the dailamite region through force. When the dailamites eventually converted to islam the arabs welcomed them into the arab army and even managed to pay them more than arab contingents in some instances.

    In my opinion they would have worn the easily reproducable but highly effective ridge helmet with a chainmail vest for body armour.

    I do not believe they practiced the heraldic traditions of the nobility but would have carried a drafsh or standard to battle. Unfortunately i could not tell you specifically what the dailamites used.

    Definitley heavy infantry in my opinion

    - Rez

  7. #7
    kambiz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Hi rez;
    Just another question who I forgot to ask you in the previous post.
    Its about Camel based units.Did sassanids have "Armored Camel" somthing like the same heavy cavalry?
    Actually I think they had ,because camel is a native animal of Iran and ofcourse they were used for transportation ,Silk road is an example.So I think ,Why shouldn't they use them in combat?
    What is your opinion rez?

    Regard
    -Kambiz

  8. #8

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Right off the bat it was considered rather undignified for a noble to ride a camel rather than a sleek horse.

    whilst there is a depiction of bahram Gur hunting on the back of a camel, there is no reference to camels being used in war.

    Only the parthians had reports written of them by the Romans. but the overall stamina and size of the beast is very impressive, it would be folly not to make use of them.

    however as i said it is unclear as to their role. perhaps the roman use of calthrops against the parthians deterred the sassanians from ever using camels again...

  9. #9
    kambiz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Hi rez;
    In your first post ,you named "Shāhnāma" ,The precious book of our great poet Ferdowsi the great which saved Iran and iranism and our identity to be doomed.We must appreciate Ferdowsi ,Every iranian MUST.

    "Shāhnāma" is not only a book of poems but it also is kinda an encyclopedia about ancient iran .But I would like to know what parts of the "Shāhnāma" are you interested in?And what parts of it did help you more?
    Can you read persian Texts rez?If so ,Then you can realy enjoy it.

    Says Persian poet, Ferdowsi the great of their downfall, in commending the Sassanids:

    کجا آن بزرگان ساسانیان
    زبهرامیان تا بسامانیان

    kujā ān buzurgān-i Sāsāniyān
    zi Bahrāmiyān tā bi-Sāmāniyān?

    "To where have the great Sassanids gone?
    "To the Bahrāmids and Samanids what has come upon?"
    (Taken from wikipedia.org)

    Thank you very mutch mate
    -Kambiz

  10. #10

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Yes i did read the ferdowsi epic the shanameh, unfortunately it was only an english translation.

    I am only just learning Persian now so maybe one day i can read a closer translation to it!

    Well first and foremost it was an enjoyable read! But many of the characters from the epic are thought to bear a great resemblence to historical characters of Persia. One such idea was Rustam being compared to general Surena.

    However it was mostly for the attitude of the Persians to war and life that helped. Since it was attempting to capture the mood of an older time ferdowsi was quite interesting to read as long as we remember it isnt contemporary.

    thanks for all the interest!

  11. #11
    kambiz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Hi rez;
    Quote Originally Posted by rez
    I am only just learning Persian now so maybe one day i can read a closer translation to it!
    Good luck with that.I can help you a bit if you really interested in.

    Quote Originally Posted by rez
    many of the characters from the epic are thought to bear a great resemblence to historical characters of Persia. One such idea was Rustam being compared to general Surena.
    It seems it's also a depiction of mostly parthian time.(Not sure)and as far as i remember there's a part in the book to explain the diffrent banners used by each commander and its units.So amazing.

    Any way ,Thank you very mucth for the answers rez ,Once again you are very good and talented man. I PM you in RoP forum ,Check it please.

    I wish you good luck
    -Kambiz
    Last edited by kambiz; September 20, 2006 at 08:26 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by rez View Post
    I am only just learning Persian now so maybe one day i can read a closer translation to it!

    So how have your studies fared? any progress?

  13. #13

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Wow I remember this. I think I originally wrote it for the Imperium Romanum Mod. I've moved away from Sassanian studies since then so I couldn't give much of an overhaul to the analysis without extensive work and i'm busy enough as it is.

    If, Armatus, you're asking how my studies in the Persian language have fared I'm sorry to say I've only improved my spoken Farsi. At present I am focusing my linguistic study on ancient Greek as its a lot more useful to my Achaemenid studies.

    If you were asking how my studies overall are going then I'm happy to say they are going very well indeed and I thank you for the interest . I'll have more to add on this note in the Symposium forum tomorrow.

  14. #14

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    No, thank you! and Yes it was a general inquiry as my mod team is researching the subject. Look forward to seeing your update.

  15. #15

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    This is an interesting thread, shame you moved away from the Sassanians, rez. Anyway, I'm curious about something rez, other than the Royal Guards, do you know of any full contingents of Sassanian archers at any juncture that wore some armour, such as mail, or helmets? I do remember reading that some contingents of Sassanian archers operated jointly with shield-bearers to protect from enemy fire, similar to the ancient Assyrians.
    Last edited by Herakleios; May 15, 2010 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Spelling

    “The principal office of history I take to be this: to prevent virtuous actions from being forgotten, and that evil words and deeds should fear an infamous reputation with posterity.” -Tacitus

  16. #16

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Off the top of my head I really can't say I do. The Sassanids are notoriously understudied and some would say thats with good reason due to the great dearth of source material. I'm sorry I can't be much help and the only book that comes to mind is Dr Farrok's (terrible) book "Shadows in the Desert."

    I say its terrible for its awful Achaemenid section but he has a better reputation when it comes to the Parthians and Sassanians. Even so he's barely an academic.

  17. #17

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    You are right that Farrokh is rather informal and indeed he's almost anecdotal about the Achaemenids. I like him though, mainly because he provided me with a decent introduction to the Sassanians, and judging by his website and some of his comments, it seems that's his actual intention, to spread awareness amongst the wider public about ancient Iran. I've been looking to delve deeper into the subject and get my hands on the work of Richard Nelson Frye and Alireza Shapour Shahbazi, have you read any of their books, would you recommend me anything from them if you have? I'm particularly interested in the Sassanians right now.
    Last edited by Herakleios; May 15, 2010 at 04:20 PM.

    “The principal office of history I take to be this: to prevent virtuous actions from being forgotten, and that evil words and deeds should fear an infamous reputation with posterity.” -Tacitus

  18. #18

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    delete.

  19. #19

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Herakleios View Post
    You are right that Farrokh is rather informal and indeed he's almost anecdotal about the Achaemenids. I like him though, mainly because he provided me with a decent introduction to the Sassanians, and judging by his website and some of his comments, it seems that's his actual intention, to spread awareness amongst the wider public about ancient Iran. I've been looking to delve deeper into the subject and get my hands on the work of Richard Nelson Frye and Alireza Shapour Shahbazi, have you read any of their books, would you recommend me anything from them if you have? I'm particularly interested in the Sassanians right now.
    I'm familiar with Frye and Shabazi. I believe the first academic book on Persian history I read was "The Heritage of Persia" by Frye; I still have a dog-eared copy somewhere. Again my experience with them, particularly Shahbazi, is with the Achaemenids.

    Frye is an excellent linguist but many of his broader ideas are nowadays quite outdated and frankly not worth much in my opinion. Shabazi on the other hand was an excellent archaeologist of the Achaemenid period and his military analysis of them is fairly good. He had written a couple of articles on the Sassanian empire and army as well which I believe are stored on the CAIS-SOAS website. I remember them being informative but best remember he was an Achaemenid specialist first.

    A fine scholar who covers Iran from Cyrus to Islam is Joesef Wiesehöfer. The book to read is "Ancient Persia" which is in my limited experience the best work on the Sassanids I've seen. It is, however, not a huge work.

    Frankly, although their intentions are always great, I have found that most Iranian historians that study ancient Iran are barely worthy of the name.

  20. #20

    Default Re: sassanian military analysis

    Do you have any recommendations for English translations of Ferdowsi's epic?

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