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Thread: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

  1. #81
    162eRI's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    I was going to ask you that Wangrin, can we have different flags per period? I guess no, but well...

    I think we should use the one with the Russian eagle circled with Laurel leaves and on each corners of the flag, triangles going for the center (so the second and third above links). But the question would be, which color for the flag? We could go for something close to the national flag, or the orange and white or green and white ones?

    What were the colors for this one?

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    Swerg's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    The 'national flag' of Russia in this era was the red white and blue 'pan-Slavic' flag, although I personally prefer the story about Peter the Great adapting it from the Dutch flag. The white-gold-black flag was, as far as I know, not much used even 'officially'. And, of course, it wasn't even conceived until the 19th century. Closer contenders for the status of 'national flag' would be the gold with the eagle or the red-white-blue.

    The white and green flag would probably be the most acceptable as a 'generic' flag. Earlier 'colonels flags' were typically white and green with some sort of regimental symbol in the center.

    I couldn't say what the colors on that particular banner are, since it is only described as "musketeers's banner".

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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Thanks for the intel, I think too the green version is the most generic. By the way, which flag should we use to depict Russia ingame, the yellow with eagle one or the pan-Slavic flag?

    I will go for a green and white version of this mid 18th century flag. I've found this pictures of the real flags, but no indication for the musketeers' banner colors. This website is a gold mine! Check it out:
    http://rusmilhist.blogspot.fr/2012/0...0-pattern.html
    http://rusmilhist.blogspot.fr/2011_02_01_archive.html

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    Swerg's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    It's really a personal choice. I would say that the Tsar's banner is better known and better looking, plus it allows you a clear distinction between 'royal' Russia and 'republican' Russia in the game. If you use the pan-slavic colors for the 'royal' flag, I'd suggest putting the imperial eagle on it in order to differentiate it from the republican flag.

    Really, if you don't like the green version I'd just pick one that looks good. Although personally I'd suggest using a flag from the reign of Elizabeth or Catherine the Great, since those are the designed that endured the longest and saw the greatest Russian military successes of the era.

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    Pashka_1604's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Icon4 Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Now It's my turn .
    Tricolor was in use during the last decade of XVII с. There exists a historical report telling about a peacemaker "Orel" where the banner was 1st time set up, 1667-68.

    Here it is "Flag of The Tsar of Moscow", 1693. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...oscow_1668.jpg
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...f_Muscovia.svg

    Banner of Peter the Great captured by Swedes at Narva, 1700.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...80%D0%B0_I.JPG

    Naval Banners

    St. Andrew's Banner 1st time appeared in 1699.
    (The Picture made by Peter The Great... GIVE HIM A REP+ )
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._of_Russia.svg St. Andrew's against Tricolor

    So. It was in use untill 1720. Articles of wars from 1720 ordered to have St. Andrew's banner looked like this.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._of_Russia.svg

    Here's another Naval flag so called Kaiser-Flag was in use since 1722. It was usually set up upon rostrum.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._of_Russia.svg

    Peter's Standart from vessel "Ingermanland", 1716.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...1%82%D0%BE.JPG

    Russian state flaf since 1742.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...D1%8F_1742.JPG

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    Pashka_1604's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Icon4 Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Now It's my turn .
    Tricolor was in use during the last decade of XVII с. There exists a historical report telling about a peacemaker "Orel" where the banner was 1st time set up, 1667-68.

    Here it is "Flag of The Tsar of Moscow", 1693. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...oscow_1668.jpg
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...f_Muscovia.svg

    Banner of Peter the Great captured by Swedes at Narva, 1700.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...80%D0%B0_I.JPG

    Naval Banners

    St. Andrew's Banner 1st time appeared in 1699.
    (The Picture made by Peter The Great... GIVE HIM A REP+ )
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._of_Russia.svg St. Andrew's against Tricolor

    So. It was in use untill 1720. Articles of wars from 1720 ordered to have St. Andrew's banner looked like this.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._of_Russia.svg

    Here's another Naval flag so called Kaiser-Flag was in use since 1722. It was usually set up upon rostrum.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._of_Russia.svg

    Peter's Standart from vessel "Ingermanland", 1716.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...1%82%D0%BE.JPG

    Russian state flag since 1742.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...D1%8F_1742.JPG

  7. #87
    Pashka_1604's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    St. Andrew's Banner 1st time appeared in 1699.
    (The Picture made by Peter The Great... GIVE HIM A REP+ )
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Naval_Ensign_of_Russia.svg St. Andrew's against Tricolor
    Sorry, I meant this pic
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0%BE%D0%B2.jpg

    Banners of Russian ships. "Taking of Azo. 1696" by Adriaan Shoonebeck.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0%BE%D0%BC.jpg

    Those ones could be colored like this.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%281668%29.svg

  8. #88
    Swerg's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    The 'tricolor' in use in the 1660's was this one:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ru..._1668-1699.svg

    Peter's tricolor was the one which resembles the Dutch flag/the modern Russian flag.


    The Andrevsky flag (the one that looks like the flag of Scotland with the colors switched) was used in 1712. There was seldom a 'hard' date when these things were changed.

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    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    I've worked on several flags (faction, regiment and naval flags) as a personal job :


    Questions :
    • Do you think the Russian faction flag (monarchy) must be like this one (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Muscovia.svg) instead of the yellow one I use ?
    • Do you agree with those regimental flags for Russian monarchy :
      • early : 1700-1712
      • middle : 1762 (but they are cavalry flag, not infantry ones)
      • late : 1796-97
        The 1762 flag could be the one to use for the main campaing as it is impossible to change the flag during the game.
    • Do you have any idea about how a Russian republic regimental flag could look like ?
    • Do you have any idea about how a Russian republic naval flag could look like ?
    Last edited by wangrin; April 09, 2012 at 03:42 PM.

    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

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    Swerg's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    1. I personally think the yellow flag is more iconic of the Russian monarchy, and more associated with them in the public eye.

    2. Obviously, they work for me
    Also, on the 'middle' one, the one with the fringe is a cavalry flag. The fringeless one is apparently a generic representation of an infantry regimental flag. I'd agree with using it.

    3. That's a difficult one. There weren't any successful or popular 'republican' movements in Russia at the time. Perhaps just use the St. Andrew's cross (as with the naval flag.)

    4. Retain the Andrevsky flag. Even the Soviets kept it on the naval jack until 1935

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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    I disagree at 3rd point. I would take a usual tricolor from short period of Russian republic after Monarchy overthroving in 1917. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Republic

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    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    As regimental flag ?

    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

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    Megasalexandros's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Opinion, i think when we finish the historical accuracy in what is again in my opinion the most basic element of a total war game, that is its soldiers in the battlefield, then Wangrin may begin the creation larger guns animations etc.
    I dont think Wangrin should be bothered with such details now.


    MACEDONIA ETERNAL GREEK KINGDOM

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    Swerg's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Pashka_1604 View Post
    I disagree at 3rd point. I would take a usual tricolor from short period of Russian republic after Monarchy overthroving in 1917. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Republic
    As Wangrin said, that's not exactly what you'd use for a regimental flag.

  15. #95
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    As our goal is to create a complete new roster for each faction, mostly with new models, I think we have between 2 to 3 years of work...
    Hopefully :
    • we have new talented modders who are ready to join us (thanks to Flaviuss and Megasalexandros) ;
    • we will release packs before a complete IS3 release



    I like to create flags, this is a relaxing job I enjoy between the creation of two new models

    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

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    Swerg's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Will the 'packs' be attached to IS2, or do you plan to start over from scratch?

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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    As regimental flag ?
    Yep.

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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    I've worked on several flags (faction, regiment and naval flags) as a personal job
    I like the Swedish flags you've made!
    I have a tiny suggestion: I feel the state flag should be more pointed, like this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



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    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    So, something like this as Russian Republic regimental flag :


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

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    162eRI's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    I was going to propose the same regimental flag after seeing it in the flag mod for ETW. I think it's a good choice and really nice looking.

    Some flags I still desagree with haha xD Since you prefer the French flag with the angels, I will try to finish it with them.

    Nice work, give me the will to keep working on them xD

    When you say different flags per different periods, you mean like if we choose at the start of the great campaign a different period we gonna have different flags? Or can we have an evolution of the flags ingame like for the uniforms??

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