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Thread: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

  1. #1
    Flikitos's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Hello there guys!

    I am the modeler and the skinner of IS III, and I need your help.

    Actually I would like to make new units for each factions, but I do not have any documents for whole factions. I ask you if you could post here some documents units so as to model and skin these ones. I swear to be really historically accurate on the models!

    The timeline starts in 1700 and ends in 1799, and the documents should concern any unit (for any Western nation) you wish to be integrated ingame and then with the team we will discuss about what units will integrate the mod...

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    Hohenstaufen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    This is a great site for everything you'll need: http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Main_Page
    It's about the Seven Years War and it has incredible resources about armies, regiments etc. All of the regiments of almost all countries involved in the war is listed there with pictures and description of the uniforms.
    ΠΑΣ ΜΗ ΕΛΛΗΝ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ

  3. #3
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Bibliography :

    French uniforms
    • Standards and Uniforms of the French Cavalry under Louis XIV 1688 - 1714 By Robert Hall, GianCarlo Boeri and Yves Roumegoux.
    • L'uniforme et les armes des soldats de la guerre en dentelle Volume 1 and 2 By Liliane and Fred Funcken, Casterman.
    • Histoire de l'ancienne infanterie française By Louis Susane. 8 volumes and one of plates.


    Bavaria uniforms
    • Uniforms of the Blue King - Bavaria 1698-1727 By Anton Hoffmann


    The first task is to search for some historical materials to be able to define a roster for each factions according to historical documents.
    When rosters will be define, you will be able to search precisely units' pictures or descriptions.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  4. #4

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    I really have to recommend the website Hohenstaufen linked to on the Seven Years' War. Great resource for uniforms, etc. I was actually about to post it here until I noticed that he had already done so.



  5. #5
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    I have massive amounts of images of Portuguese uniforms during the 18th century because of several months correspondance with the historian Manuel Ribeiro Rodrigues aswell as a document with countless uniforms of the Portuguese army in Brazil. Much though not all of this is already integrated into my Portuguese mod. I have permission from Sr Rodrigues to post images from his book.

    It's fairly clear that until at least 1740, the general appearance of a Portuguese infantry uniform was as below i.e. white/white-grey coat (white-grey/alvadia was more common early in the century but white seems to have been more common as time went on) with various cuff colours. Red seems to have been the most common cuff colour and cuffs and linings tended to be the same colour in the War of the Spanish Succession. But the uniform regulations referred to in "The Portuguese Army during the War of the Spanish Succession" mention that white-grey (alvadia) "will do" for the waistcoats and stockings too. But we know that at least one regiment (a militia unit referred to as "a militiaman of the Tercios Auxilios" in 1710) wore red stockings. So my personal feeling is that white waistcoats may have been more common at least early in the century. It also seems that gaiters were not standard for Portuguese soldiers until nearly 1762, according to Manuel Ribeiro Rodrigues' book a copy of which I own. The actual picture below is of the 1st Infantry Regiment of Goa in 1741. In 1745 this regiment changed to a green coat with red-cuffs. Note that the solder below is not wearing gaiters:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The earliest picture we have of late-style Portuguese uniforms comes from a 1760 painting of the 1759 execution of the Tavora family. It shows mainly white coats with red lapels, but also blue coats with red lapels. See below:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Most of the Portuguese uniforms we have pictures of in 1762 (when Portugal entered the Seven Years War) though are blue with red facings. The next most common colour is brown and only one is white. So it is possible that blue had become the most common uniform colour by then. But cloth orders for 1759 show that white was still the most common colour at that stage, followed by green (at least for the regiments we have information on). Complicating things is the Lisbon Earthquake and tsunami of 1755 when a lot of records were lost, and then again in the 1820s Civil War.
    I was contacted by Fortes about including some of my Portuguese and Danish units in the mod. All of the units in my Portuguese mod were taken directly from actual pictures I have except for the following:

    - Porto regiment - based on text description
    - Lisboa regiment - based on text description
    - Chaves Regiment - text description
    - Campo-Maior Regiment (early) - Condray's book says blue with red facings.
    - Pierrepont Regiment (colonial India unit) - cloth orders plus indications from 1st Goa Infantry uniform picture. The timeframe is the same as the 1st Goa Infantry Regiment uniform above (1735-45).
    - Souto Maior Regiment (colonial India unit) - same.
    - Lisboa regiment (1759) - cloth orders and indications from the above 1760 painting. All the cloth was lightblue.
    - Cais Cavalry (1740) - text description in MRR's book
    - Alcantara Cavalry (1740) - text description in MRR's book
    - Serpa Regiment - reconstructed based on Condray's thesis that the coat of arms colour was the facing colour in the WSS.
    - Vasconca Regiment - same
    - Portalegre Regiment - same
    Last edited by Geronimo2006; April 27, 2011 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Tavora picture added
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  6. #6
    Flikitos's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Great guys!

    Hohenstaufen, your website is a goldmine! thank you really!

    Winsington, sorry man you have to be faster!

    Wangrin, I think I have enough documents about the french uniform of the Seven Year War (I think you know why ), all your documents will be used thank you for your help again!

    Geronimo, Is there a difference betwen the line spanish Uniform and the Portuguese one? It would be really useful if you could send me some of your documents. I do not find anything about Portuguese uniforms on internet, they seem to be rare. Thank you too for your help!

  7. #7
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Quote Originally Posted by ⚓ Flikitos ⚓ View Post
    Great guys!

    Hohenstaufen, your website is a goldmine! thank you really!

    Winsington, sorry man you have to be faster!

    Wangrin, I think I have enough documents about the french uniform of the Seven Year War (I think you know why ), all your documents will be used thank you for your help again!

    Geronimo, Is there a difference betwen the line spanish Uniform and the Portuguese one? It would be really useful if you could send me some of your documents. I do not find anything about Portuguese uniforms on internet, they seem to be rare. Thank you too for your help!
    Well the Poltava Swedish Foot Guard model is suitable for early Portuguese infantry and pretty much fits the first picture above. Colour pictures of Portuguese uniforms in this period are very undocumented before 1762 because of the 1755 earthquake but I have a huge number of pictures of uniforms from an ebook of colonial uniforms in Brazil.

    Some pictures:

    Officer (wearing large wig) with men (1720s):
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Portuguese grenadier in a 1740 book called "Milicia Pratica":
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
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  8. #8
    titanvoyager's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Here you have an all thread about spanish uniforms in the XVIII century

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=408128


    Hope it helps!
    "...to boldly go where no man has gone before."

  9. #9

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Source: Osprey (Peter the Great's Infantry)

    Note: A kartuz is something like a proto-ushanka. A cylindrical hat with folding 'ears' on the side.

    Some of these just have blank entries, which I assume either meant that they were the same as previously listed regiments or there was no information. I apologize for any inaccuracies that may exist

    I would suggest simply using red for any unknown trouser colors and green for any unknown coat colors, those being the most common choices.

    All these uniforms are from the post-Narva era, which saw the uniforms slightly simplified and changed around a bit. There was no 'standard' Russian uniform at the time, however, only basic guidelines as to style. Colors were the choice of the regimental commander.

    Russian uniform colors 1700-1725
    Regiment: (Headgear) / (coat) / (breeches)

    Guard Preobrazhensk: Tricorn/Dark green, red facing / Dark green
    Guard Semenovsk: Tricorn/Light blue, red facing / Light blue

    Prince Repnin's Grenadiers: Red mitre, blue facing/red/red
    Weide's Grenadiers: Green mitre, fur bands/Green, red facing/red
    Ensberg's, Baryantski's and Beitlz's Grenadiers (Seperate units): Blue mitre, red facing/blue, red facing/blue

    Boutyrski's Regiment: Yellow Kartuz, red facing/red, green facing/red
    Lefort's Regiment: Green Kartuz, red faced/Red, green facing/brown
    Rostovski Regiment: Green kartuz/Dark green, faced yellow/red
    Kievski Regiment: Tricorn/red, faced yellow/red
    Sibirenski Regiment: Tricorn/Green/Red
    Vologdski Regiment: White kartuz, faced green/Green, faced white/red
    Prskovski Regiment: Tricorn/Green, faced red/red
    Schlusselburgski Regiment: Red kartuz, faced yellow/green, faced red/red
    Archangelski Regiment: Tricorn/dark green, faced blue/red
    Nishegorodski Regiment: Green kartuz faced red/green, faced blue/brown
    Smolenski Regiment: Tricorn/dark green, faced red/red
    Tschenernigovski Regiment: Tricorn/Red, faced blue/green
    Azovski and Vladimirski Regiments: Tricorn/Red, faced green/red
    Kazanski Regiment: Red Kartuz, faced blue/Blue, faced red/red
    Moskovski Regiment: Red kartuz, faced green/Red, faced green/red
    Novgorodski Regiment: White kartuz, faced green/Green, faced white/brown
    Veronezhki and Luzski Regiments: Blue kartuz/dark green, faced blue/leather
    Yarslavski and Permski Regiments: Yellow kartuz, faced green/dark green, faced blue/red
    Vyatski Regiment: Tricorn/Dark green, faced blue/dark green
    Tverski and Byeloserski Regiments: Tricorn/dark green/red
    Astrakhanski Regiment: Tricorn/Green, faced red/brown
    Triozhi and Inglis Regiments: Tricorn/Dark green/red
    Ingermanlandski Regiment: Tricorn/dark green, faced red/brown
    Narvski Regiment: Tricorn, dark green, faced blue/red
    Koporieschki Regiment: Tricorn/dark green/red
    Tobolski Regiment: Green kartuz, faced red/green/red
    Riazanski Regiment: Tricorn/green, faced blue/red
    Nevski/Vibogski/Kargapolski/Utsiugski Regiments: ???/green/???
    Byelogrodski Regiment: Tricorn/Dark green, faced red/brown
    Yamburgski/Olonetski/Galitschiski Regiments: Same as above?
    Ivangorodski Regiment: Tricorn/green/red
    Rentzel Regiment: Green kartuz, faced red/green/???
    von Fitchheim/Schnewenz Regiments: Tricorn/dark green/brown
    Simbirski's Regiment: Tricorn/Green/???
    Perislavski/Sotovski/Tolbuchin Regiments: Tricorn/red/red
    Fraser/Ostrovski regiments: Tricorn/green/brown
    Schmidt's Regiment: Tricorn/dark green/brown

    Garrison regiments were issued with grey coats.

    Cavalry:

    Dragoons:
    Regiment: (Headgear)/(coat)/(facings)/(breeches)/(vest)/(overcoat)

    Moskovski Regiment: Tricorn/white/white/brown/brown/red
    Kievski Regiment: ???
    Vladimirski Regiment: Red kartuz/green/red/brown/???/blue
    Pskovski Regiment: Tricorn/blue/red/brown/brown/red
    Kazanski Regiment: ???
    Novgorodski Regiment: White kartuz, faced green/green/green/brown/brown/???
    Troitski Regiment: ???
    Astrakhanski Regiment: Tricorn/blue/white/brown/brown
    Sibirenski Regiment: ???
    Smolenski Regiment: White kartuz, faced red/white/blue/brown/brown
    St. Petersburgski Regiment: Tricorn/green/red/red/red/???
    Tchernigovski Regiment: Tricorn/red/blue/brown/brown/???
    Viatski and Nhizegordski: ???
    Yaroslavski Regiment: Tricorn/blue/red/brown/green/???
    Tverskoy Regiment: Blue kartuz, faced red/red/blue/brown/???/red
    Permski Regiment: ???
    Ingermanlandski Regiment: Tricorn/green/red/brown/green/green
    Nevski Regiment: ???
    Belozerski Regiment: Blue kartuz/green/red/brown/???/red
    Ryazanski Regiment: tricorn/green/???/brown/brown/???
    Ustiuzhki Regiment: Tricorn/green/red/brown/brown/green
    Arkangelski Regiment: ???
    Luzhski Regiment: Blue kartuz/green/???/brown/brown/red
    Vologdski Regiment: ???
    Narvski Regiment: Tricorn/Dark green/???/brown/brown/red
    Rostovski Regiment: Tricorn/green/red/brown/green/blue
    Azovski Regiment: Tricorn/blue/???/brown/brown/???
    Yamburgski Regiment: ???
    Life Dragoons Regiment: Tricorn/green/red/brown/red/???
    Olentzski Regiment: ???
    Kargopolski Regiment: Tricon/green/red/brown/red/???
    Tobolski Regiment: Green kartuz, faced red/green/blue/brown/brown/???
    Kropotovski Regiment: ???

    Garrison dragoons wore green coats with red facings and red breeches.


    Hussars:
    The Osprey book doesn't give any information on Hussar uniforms in Peter's time. However, it does state that six Hussar regiments were raised in 1711 to fight the Ottomans. Four were disbanded that year and the other two were disbanded in 1721 due to low performance and high maintenance costs.
    In 1723, 340 Hussars were raised from Serbia, borrowed from the Austrians. Most of them had returned home by 1725. Peter preferred to use cossacks in the light cavalry role.

    Artillery:
    Artillery uniforms seem to have been red with blue trim (coat and trousers) with either a tricorn or red kartuz and with a white overcoat.
    Bombardiers wore a black leather helmet/short mitre with the Russian imperial eagle on it.



    For later uniforms, see:
    http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Main_Page

    A very useful little resource.


    And finally, I can provide information for some uniform styles of the later 18th century styles as well, if it is so desired.

  10. #10

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    I believe I once suggested this before, but development was dead atm...

    Maratha Confederacy/Eastern Civs

    -Uniforms on Hindu infantry types changed. No longer will they look like odd drunken gentlemen in turbans . Model can be found on <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrNtKJ6LDt4>
    -Or <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tIufaeVhCw> but i question the accuracy of some uniforms

    You could also get inspiration from the skins of two civilizations for the Broken Crescent mod in Medieval Total War 2.

    Solanki Rajputs <http://totalwar.honga.net/faction.php?v=bc2&f2=Solanki>
    Malikate of Sindh <http://totalwar.honga.net/faction.php?v=bc2&f2=Malikate>

  11. #11
    Sukhoi's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Russian Army.
    Part I. Emperor Peter I the Great.


    1698-1702.
    "Hungarian" dress.
    Fusilier, Semenovsky leib-guard regiment.
    Officer, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.
    Fusilier, Butirsky regiment in summer uniform.
    Grenadier, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.



    1702-1712. New "western" uniform.
    Sergeant, Semenovsky leib-guard regiment.
    Guard officer, winter cloak.
    Officer, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.
    Fusilier, infantry regiment, as dragoon.
    Pikemen, Kiev infantry regiment.



    1702-1712.
    Grenadier, Prince Repnin's rgt.
    Grenadier, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.
    Fusilier, Smolensk regiment
    Fusilier, Semenovsky leib-guard regiment.



    1712-1720. "Standart" uniform.
    Sergeant-Grenadier ,Semenovsky leib-guard regiment.
    Fusilier, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.
    Grenadier-officer, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.
    Grenadier, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.
    Fusilier, infantry regiment, winter cloak.



    1712-1720.
    Grenadier, Grenadier regiment.
    Officer, Leib-guard.
    Musician, Semenovsky leib-guard regiment.
    Drummer, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.



    1720-1731.
    Unter-officer, Preobrazhensky leib-guard regiment.
    Fusilier, infantry regiment.
    Fusilier, infantry regiment, in the coat for work.
    Fusilier, Semenovsky leib-guard regiment.
    Russia has only two allies - the Russian army and the Russian fleet.
    ( Emperor Alexander III )

  12. #12

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Not many documents received, eh Flikitos? Perhaps I could assist. If you still need any help, mind telling any specifics which you still need?

    I could give a start. Here is a few models for zamburak guns. I noticed the zamburak units in this game (camel gunners, elephant gunners, etc.) still use the normal jezail skin. It's rather funny to see them fire their cannonballs from them.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    I believe this is an ottoman abus gun model, but it's probably similar enough. Though I think both they and zamburak guns had tripods/howdahs (to mount on camels/elephants), which I'm guessing is graphically inconvenient.


    Oh, but here's more realistic ones! It's just that they look hard to create...

    CAMEL GUNNERS

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    I also have some skins possible for North Indian soldiers early on. It is quite difficult to find historical images. But, seeing as many melee troops in the 18th Century were clad in medieval armour (this set of armour shown actually is 18th Century), I took some pics of units in MTW's Broken Crescent mod. Considering that Ahiga made these (so convenient!), perhaps he has considered reusing some of them for Empire? They are very well done!


    RTW Broken Crescent Models for Early North Indian Troops

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Last edited by Navneeth Jay; August 05, 2011 at 10:29 PM.

  13. #13
    Flikitos's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Thank you guys for your documents, they will be really helpful!

    But Navneeth Jay is right, this is not enough yet!

  14. #14

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Armies

    This should be useful for mid-game armies, as well as unit banners.

    EDIT:
    The French in particular look like they could use attention. The uniform of the Royal Escossais and the Irish regiments are terrible incorrect, at least according to this.

  15. #15
    Flikitos's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Do not worry Swerg: Wangrin, Geronimo, ACMilan and I, are working on the Seven Year war french units, be sure that we are making the best so as to make the french units of the seven year war historically correct, if you want more informations on the units see the mod Nec Pluribus Impar.

  16. #16

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    http://www.memorandum.ru/viskowatov/imglist.html#T07

    The images are all black and white, but this is probably the most comprehensive set of images you'll ever find for the Russians.

    Google Translate gets the captions/titles pretty well.

  17. #17
    Flikitos's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Thank you Swerg! it will be helpful when we will be busy on the Russian faction. +rep

  18. #18

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Here, another source ... though mixed up with Napoleonic era uniforms and also mostly focused on the German States


    http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/tafeln/knoetel.html

  19. #19

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    This detail is in the Kronoskaf Project SYW Archive by the way, but I thought I should mention this since it stands out a lot in the current version; The uniforms on the Reales Guardias de Infanteria Espanola (Spanish Guard Unit) should be blue, exactly the same as the uniforms on the Reales Guardias de Infanteria Valona. There is literally no difference. The Guardias de Corps in the Spanish roster should also have their uniform changed from white to blue. Every unit in the Spanish royal guard had the same, mainly blue color scheme, again, you can confirm this in the 7 years war database posted by Swerg. Keep up the good work on the mod.

  20. #20

    Default Re: [ISIII] Units Documents needed

    Hi all

    As I said in another subject, I give you this link to the NYC Digital Gallery.
    You will choose the country and after the period, and you will have a lot of uniforms pictures.

    http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypld...itle_id=269277

    Good works

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