NWN vs NWN2

[Tuskin4]

Wich is better Neverwinter Nights or Neverwinter Nights 2?

Neverwinter Nights 1 is my favorite.

[mrcrusty]

Inb4 IO.



But imo, Neverwinter Nights 1 provides a better base for roleplaying because of it's toolset and persistent worlds. It's better in NWN 1 than 2. As far as the campaigns go, the original campaigns are around the same in quality, but NWN 1 was less buggy. The best single player campaign of either game though was Mask of the Betrayer. MotB > Any single player campaign NWN 1 or expansions had to offer.

[Inhuman One]

NWN2 never had more players than NWN1 online at any point in time according to Gamespy statistics checked occasionly in the first two years after NWN2's release, not even close. At average they had half the amount of people online.

When still in doubt, check the amount of modules made for both games on NWvault and also the amount of mods. If you have plenty of time, feel free to detract all NWN1 content from that that was released before NWN2 was out and NWN1 would likely still have double the amount of mods released and five times if not more the amount of modules released due to the toolset being user friendly.

[PerXX]

There can be only one..
NWN wipes the floor with NWN2.

[Tankfriend]

I am also looking at the matter a little more differentiated, like mrcrusty.
NWN 1 has by far more extra contents and capabilities for the multiplayer mode, of which many were created by the fanbase. So if you are interested in that matter, NWN 1 would be the clear victor here.
For singleplayer and vanilla-state (i.e. discounting mods/community content, where only the pure game itself counts) considerations, though, I concur with mrcrusty in that NWN is defeated by NWN 2 there, in my opinion. For instance, you actually get a full party in 2, and the story continueing from the main campaign to Mask of the Betrayer, as well as the spin-off story from Storm of Zehir is noticeably better and more interesting than the one from NWN 1 and its addons, in my opinion. Besides, the bugs have been eliminated through patches and the addons by now, as far as I can tell.
There is no clear overall victor, in my opinion, though. Both games are very good in their own merits, they just have different focal points.

[Inhuman One]

Something as simple as a decent camera seems to be absent in NWN2 despite all patches though.

The original NWN2 campaign is quite terrible if you ask me, it is as if Obsidian has no idea about what D&D is about. They decide pretty much everything about your character for you. Background, age, mother's name, friends, etc. Not that the NWN1 campaign was that great, I never finished that one either but at least it was suiteable for characters with pretty much any background unless it would be truly outlandish like being a devil or such. In NWN2 you can't even play an old man despite character creation allowing for it since that would conflict with the story. Being neutral is not supported either, the choices are rather black and white.

If it is just about the pure game, NWN1 would have about double the amount of content regarding creatures, interiour tilesets, more weapon types, mounted combat and horses, a rediculous amount of armor and clothing options that are not censored to the extreme, and all music and sound effects being original instead of borrowed from the earlier game.

But on the plus side, NWN2 does have open face helmets and hats, and more classes, and a unique model for half elves. Considering they look like the result of several generations of inbreeding I am not sure if thats a good thing though. Enviroments look good in NWN2, credit where its due, but character models are just plain ugly, as are the combat animations.

[PerXX]

Something as simple as a decent camera seems to be absent in NWN2 despite all patches though.

Heh.. I just managed to shift my camera stuck in a tree. I was able to move my character around properly with the WSAD keys, but my camera wouldn't move. Kind of fun to move out of your own view!

[mrcrusty]

it is as if Obsidian has no idea about what D&D is about.

I lol'd. Twice.

I will admit that the NWN 2's OC was crap. We already know how much you love NWN 1 and hate NWN 2. There's no need to make over exaggerated statements that makes you look silly.

Both games are very good in their own merits, they just have different focal points.

Honestly, MotB is one of the greatest single player campaigns I've ever played. It may not be to your tastes Inhuman One, but it's one of the best pure-breed RPGs released in the last 5-6 years.

[Tankfriend]

Something as simple as a decent camera seems to be absent in NWN2 despite all patches though.

I honestly never had any serious problems with the camera, and I have no idea why.

The original NWN2 campaign is quite terrible if you ask me, it is as if Obsidian has no idea about what D&D is about. They decide pretty much everything about your character for you. Background, age, mother's name, friends, etc.

True for the most part, and it is a weak part of the campaign, and a much freer choice of things would have been much better. That is a problem almost every CRPG game has to cope with, however. Even games like Dragon Age: Origins or Mass Effect that give you a limited number of backgrounds to choose from end up limiting your personal choice nevertheless. And it is quite obvious why it is that way: Developers cannot develop a game that can cater to the specific needs of tens or hundreds of different character backgrounds and still make the story capturing and influenced by the same backgrounds - that would be massively impractical from an economical point of view. It is sad for players that want more choice, complexity et. al., but that is the way things are.

Not that the NWN1 campaign was that great, I never finished that one either but at least it was suiteable for characters with pretty much any background unless it would be truly outlandish like being a devil or such.

Actually, in NWN, you can theoretically use any background and still get through the campaign as if you were completely normal, because your background has no actual bearing on the story. The only reason some backgrounds appear less fitting is because you yourself regard them that way, because you know about the actual background underlying the game setting. I agree with you that a Baatezu character would be completely ridiculous to play in the campaign from a background setting point of view, but the game itself would not mind.

In NWN2 you can't even play an old man despite character creation allowing for it since that would conflict with the story. Being neutral is not supported either, the choices are rather black and white.

Quite the same is actually true for NWN 1, unless you regard it as highly likely and/or believable that a crooked old man joins an academy to train for being a hero. The question would also remain why such an old man starts from scratch, as well, instead of having a lifetime of experience already. And as far as I remember from the campaign, being neutral also usually lead to the least beneficial/least desirable outcomes. That is a symptom of the entire franchises shared by Bioware/Obsidian, though.

If it is just about the pure game, NWN1 would have about double the amount of content regarding creatures, interiour tilesets, more weapon types,

Well, I have never compared the exact numbers from one game to the other, but I always had the feeling that the games as they were were actually quite alike in their variety. I also cannot say what weapon types NWN 1 had over 2, to be honest.

a rediculous amount of armor and clothing options that are not censored to the extreme,

I have to say that the supposedly "extremely censored" options, especially in case of armour, actually make much more sense than running around half-naked in a few straps of leather. True, the options were quite pointless in places where they did not make sense (i.e. the Moonstone Mask), but those places were relatively rare.

Considering they look like the result of several generations of inbreeding I am not sure if thats a good thing though.

Honestly, all the character models look similar to that, not just the Half-Elves. The benefit that NWN 1 has here, though, is that it has a much lower level of detail, so you actually do not expect it to show a lot.

but character models are just plain ugly

I cannot really follow you here - in what manner are they plain ugly? Apart from the Half-Elf syndrome, I mean?

as are the combat animations.

Some look really weird, I give you that - especially if you use the larger weapons like two-handed swords. But I regard the issue to actually be in the minority - most animations look quite acceptable. Not great, true, but acceptable. And NWN 1 is not free from the issue, either. For example, I remember the "block with shield" animation where the character always blocks anything with the top end of his shield, rather than using the middle area as one normally would. And most animations in 1 look quite simple, anyway, so there is not a lot to criticize in the first place.

[Inhuman One]

Combat Animations for NWN arent without flaws of course, but NWN2 being released later kind of makes people expect an improvement instead of something that seems less. As long as the character level isnt too high or too low and its a fight against humanoid opponents, an NWN fight looks quite decent around level 10. Attack speed isnt too crazy fast or too slow at that point.

character models might be personal preference, but to me the eyes seemed rather dead, faces seemed to lack character. To me it just seemed like the simpler faces in NWN1 with their neutral expressions showed a lot more character. NWN2 characters faces coupled with the idle animations makes it kind of look like they dont want to be there.
While NWN1 might have had very curvy and slim female models, that was easily hidden under clothes or armor when needed. NWN2 female characters can't look any kind of attractive without mods.
Just pixels of course, but elves are supposed to be known for their beauty.
That and one of my favorite NWN characters is a woman. Recreating her in NWN2 looked downright insulting to the original since both the body and the face looked very ugly in comparison.

Regarding censored armors and clothes, Barbarians are not commonly depicted in full armor suits. And it should be alright to see bare arms, a little skin under the neck and a bare chest for men. Some female outfits look like they censored them at the last minute, and did it poorly as well. Like they are wearing a potato sack under their clothes. Seemingly they went very paranoid about the plentifull nudity mods of NWN1 and the Oblivion controversity.

Regarding content: NWN1 has the double bladed sword, mace staff, double axe and whip exclusively NWN2 has the great mace. NWN1 was also shipped with way more creatures than NWN2. Granted though, they can be customized a bit with NWN2, but those options are very limited and grant pretty much the same as what NWN1 offers with various models of the same creature. And when looking at both games fully patched and with all expansions but without mods, that difference is only bigger since I don't recall Obsidian patching additional creatures into the game outside of expansions, and the expansions did not feature that much new content either.

It's likely that Bioware patched in about 50 creatures outside of the expansions, thats pretty much what an expansion would add. Including horses.