Should handicapped fetuses be aborted?

[Atheist Peace]

Unfortunately, education tends to infer superiority in some, leading to arrogance and disdain for those who are, perhaps, more wordly, but less scholarly.
There is a real danger in pursuing 'education' too intently, and forgetting the goal[self-improvement] - it often turns into a self-perpetuating game, like macro-economics, where it creates problems in order to solve them and justify its own existence. There are few people who can have their heads swollen by facts and figures and still retain a proper sense of perspective and humility - to see how very little they are improved over the 'common man' they patronize on TV, in classrooms, and in their books.

Is the backlash surprising when Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, Al Franken, all pretend some greater refinement and wisdom, which they claim is the result of 'education', only to disparage a great mass of their compatriots as 'uncultured', 'bigoted', 'stupid', 'rednecks', etc ?

You're missing the point. Intelligent people are fundamentally better and worth much, much more than unintelligent (esp. retards, who should ALL be aborted before birth) people, and educated people are better than uneducated, ignorant people. :wink:

[Elu Barcino]

AP:
Don't you think you've gone a bit far in saying the people who are stupid should be aborted?

[Atheist Peace]

This is part of a growing problem in not just the USA but Europe as well. Intellectuals are frowned upon and ridiculed while idiots are glorified...

The problem is finding a solution. Perhaps some kind of mass-murder and "cleansing" of the masses. The problem comes with who gets to decide who lives...

AP:
Don't you think you've gone a bit far in saying the people who are stupid should be aborted?

Not stupid people, just retarded people. Stupidity can't be detected before birth (but dumb people should be discouraged from reproduction), but retardation can AFAIK.

[The White Knight]

Not stupid people, just retarded people.

What are 'retarded' people? People with a mental-setback? If so, they can't help it.

[Elu Barcino]

Sorry, AP, but that is a ridiculous statement to make. So what if someone has mental handicaps? I know mentally handicapped people and, for your information, they are just as valuable to society as the next person.

[Atheist Peace]

Sorry, AP, but that is a ridiculous statement to make. So what if someone has mental handicaps? I know mentally handicapped people and, for your information, they are just as valuable to society as the next person.

Really? All of such people I've ever met have only been societal obstacles. They're actually allowed in public school classes with normal kids in America, disgusting.

What are 'retarded' people? People with a mental-setback? If so, they can't help it.

None of us can help our genetic make-up or intelligence.

Uh-oh.... I smell a flame war coming.

This is not to say that people who didn't go to college are stupid. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that high education, and an appreciation for high culture (classical music, opera, theater) are gradually becoming social stigmas. One of the greatest things that an individual can do for themselves is self-cultivation through education. Somehow, those who choose to cultivate themselves are viewed as un-American.

Well, I should clarify, education doesn't make one superior, but the desire to be educated does.

[The White Knight]

Really? All of such people I've ever met have only been societal obstacles. They're actually allowed in public school classes with normal kids in America, disgusting.

Help! My mind is exploding! Children with mental illnesses didn't choose for it and therefor should be treated with equal humanity and respect!

[Atheist Peace]

Help! My mind is exploding! Children with mental illnesses didn't choose for it and therefor should be treated with equal humanity and respect!

If they're aborted before birth, it helps everyone, especially them.

[Elu Barcino]

Really? All of such people I've ever met have only been societal obstacles. They're actually allowed in public school classes with normal kids in America, disgusting.

I had a handicapped person in my class, it was no trouble at all. He had someone to sit with him and help him learn. He was far nicer than the people who were so horrible to him that he left.

Plus, the whole class learned something for later life.

[Ahlerich]

atheist peace you would have had a good live in the 3rd reich in germany back in the days with your opinions about selecting live. they killed "retarded" people too silently. they could not do it publicly because there would not have been enough support. but they run the program silently.

[Atheist Peace]

I had a handicapped person in my class, it was no trouble at all. He had someone to sit with him and help him learn. He was far nicer than the people who were so horrible to him that he left.

Plus, the whole class learned something for later life.

Tell me, have you ever been biased, in any way, towards someone based on their intelligence?

I would disagree with you on this, however, as I disagree based on what is my perception of what I believe to be morality, you would presumably base your ethos on what you thought would be good for society as a whole, so I guess it's a bit of a non-starter really.

Yeah, pretty much.

What is superiority then ? Are you basing your opinion on superiority (or the lack of it) for what is generally considered acceptable, or do you have more of an abstract definition for it ?

As far as I'm concerned, those who are more intelligent are better functioning humans, and those who are intelligent and educated, or at least strive for education, are going to better humanity, or at least be better people IMO. Plus, I just have a disdain for stupid, ignorant people.

[Elu Barcino]

Tell me, have you ever been biased, in any way, towards someone based on their intelligence?

I am immensely ashamed to say that I have.

But, nowadays, I would never judge someone based on something they can't change. Plus, I was young back then, and I just went with the crowd.

[Atheist Peace]

I am immensely ashamed to say that I have.

But, nowadays, I would never judge someone based on something they can't change. Plus, I was young back then, and I just went with the crowd.

So, you don't think that someone of a 150 IQ (ignoring possible innacuracies in the IQ testing, as they're irrelevant to this example) is superior, in any way (based on intelligence), to a person of an 85 IQ?

[Elu Barcino]

So, you don't think that someone of a 150 IQ (ignoring possible innacuracies in the IQ testing, as they're irrelevant to this example) is superior, in any way (based on intelligence), to a person of an 85 IQ?

It depends on their personality, doesn't it? The person with 150 IQ could be a complete jerk for all I know.

[Farnan]

(esp. retards, who should ALL be aborted before birth)

Well, I guess you can talk that over with your buddy Hitler...(see the T-13 project)

[Atheist Peace]

Well, I guess you can talk that over with your buddy Hitler...(see the T-13 project)

Maybe Hitler was right about something...

Keep in mind, I don't know what the T-13 project is (I can't find it online), so if it's killing live retarded people, then I don't agree. Aborting babies (which aren't human life, they're fetuses [feti?]) is very different.

[internationalist]

atheist peace you would have had a good live in the 3rd reich in germany back in the days with your opinions about selecting live. they killed "retarded" people too silently. they could not do it publicly because there would not have been enough support. but they run the program silently.

Well actually, he could have had a good life in pre-WWII U.S.A, where eugenics was frequently practiced and considered the appropriate thing to do. "retarded" people were banned from reproducing.
btw I think hes being sarcastic?

[Ahlerich]

well fetus or not the fetuses should not be property of a state and simply be removed without the parents having a right to decide about that. what kind of freedom is that?

[generally amusing]

I have a friend who's IQ is over 140, and one who is dyslexic and not too great at studies. Should I execute the dumb one and raise the clever one on my shoulders? Doing things like this won't make an utopia, it will make a nazi state.

[John I Tzimisces]

AP, you're out of your mind. First retards, then what?

"Tell me, have you ever been biased, in any way, towards someone based on their intelligence?"

There is a difference between intelligence and the drive to learn.