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Thread: Triarii

  1. #1

    Default Triarii

    Dear lord, are they meant to be such ungodly tanks? I was playing the provincial campign as the Galatians and attacked a Roman stack (general-less) with my 6 star general, and mopped up all of their units pretty well except a unit of Triarii, which I promptly surrounded with my 2000+ man army.

    Watch the battle go by...they're completely surrounded and pressed in against one another and it says that 'Only a fool could lose this battle' (THAT'S WHAT THE TRIARII ARE SAYING).

    Anyways, that one unit of Triarii ended up routing every last one of my units (Gaelic Swordsmen, Garnastae, 3 Heavy Cavalry, 6 light cavalry, General, and 4 archers) and I lost the battle.

    WAD? Or totally OP'd unit?

    Might've been balanced for a player, but not when the AI seems to collect them like rare candy.
    Last edited by Kapt Torbjorn; April 16, 2011 at 04:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Pinkie Pie's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Triarii

    1: Its the Romans best early unit.
    2: I hope you didnt actualy surroun it as only a crazy person gives the ai's best unit to way to route.
    3: You can check the triarii stats by going to the export_descr_unit in the xgm data folder.
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  3. #3
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Triarii

    If you totally surround a unit, any unit, they'll fight to the death. Point of advice: Leave them an opening to escape through and cut the survivors down as they flee the battlefield.

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    Ancient Aliens's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Triarii

    Quote Originally Posted by Kapt Torbjorn View Post
    Dear lord, are they meant to be such ungodly tanks? I was playing the provincial campign as the Galatians and attacked a Roman stack (general-less) with my 6 star general, and mopped up all of their units pretty well except a unit of Triarii, which I promptly surrounded with my 2000+ man army.

    Watch the battle go by...they're completely surrounded and pressed in against one another and it says that 'Only a fool could lose this battle' (THAT'S WHAT THE TRIARII ARE SAYING).

    Anyways, that one unit of Triarii ended up routing every last one of my units (Gaelic Swordsmen, Garnastae, 3 Heavy Cavalry, 6 light cavalry, General, and 4 archers) and I lost the battle.

    WAD? Or totally OP'd unit?

    Might've been balanced for a player, but not when the AI seems to collect them like rare candy.
    Yeah on VH/VH some of the AI's units are a bit OP, Triarii being one of them. I usually try to flank them with slingers or archers with fire arrows on and that usually does the trick.

    You'd be surprised how utterly useless they are to a player in VH/VH. They take 2 turns to build, are super expensive, and get beaten 1 on 1 by regular old Greek Hoplites. I usually just spam Hastati until the reforms myself

  5. #5
    nhinhonhinho's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Triarii

    Triarii are incredible strong in the hand of the AI! They sometime like a steel wall. They can punch throw your phalanx head on and stop a whole army!

    So it's better to use javelin or slinger to take them out

  6. #6

    Default Re: Triarii

    Quote Originally Posted by nhinhonhinho View Post
    Triarii are incredible strong in the hand of the AI! They sometime like a steel wall. They can punch throw your phalanx head on and stop a whole army!

    So it's better to use javelin or slinger to take them out
    Yeah, they are the only unit where I've found javelin cavalry to actually be worth using (since the Romans rarely have cavalry to chase them). Of course the Galatians can't recruit anything so slingers are your best bet.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Triarii

    Yea after further playing I've come to the conclusion that the Triarii are totally overpowered. It takes like 6 units of armour upgraded and silver chevron hoplites attacking them to make them break. Their HP of 3 makes them impervious to missile weapons, and they routinely fight to the last man even when led by no general.

    Like, I took an army full of hoplites, illyrian peltasts, the macedonian shock cavalry, and a unit of onagers and the only thing that seemed to do any sort of damage to them were the onagers while they were walking towards me.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Triarii

    Quote Originally Posted by Kapt Torbjorn View Post
    Yea after further playing I've come to the conclusion that the Triarii are totally overpowered. It takes like 6 units of armour upgraded and silver chevron hoplites attacking them to make them break. Their HP of 3 makes them impervious to missile weapons, and they routinely fight to the last man even when led by no general.

    Like, I took an army full of hoplites, illyrian peltasts, the macedonian shock cavalry, and a unit of onagers and the only thing that seemed to do any sort of damage to them were the onagers while they were walking towards me.
    Again what battle difficulty were you playing on? Anything harder than hard gets stat bonuses, so they aren't as overpowered in the hands of human players. Also I play on the one hitpoint system so that maybe why my ranged units are more effective.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Triarii

    Was playing on VH/VH before, but changed it to H/H. No real change. And I'm not playing on the 1 hp system, so Triarii being the Roman Elite unit get 3 HP and are impossible to kill with anything other than artillery.

  10. #10
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Triarii

    But try changing over to the 1hp system, then.

  11. #11
    Ancient Aliens's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Triarii

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
    But try changing over to the 1hp system, then.
    Yeah playing on the 1 HP system is a must for me, it makes those elite units actually killable by missile units and it makes opposing AI factions horse archer based armies as terrifying as they actually were.

  12. #12
    nhinhonhinho's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Triarii

    You can be sure that in 1hp system Triarii still cause headache! Yet i agree that they are killable

  13. #13
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Triarii

    In general I don't recommend playing battles on VH. The AI bonuses on VH are large, and they can produce all sorts of weird results. If you want a tougher fight you are better off playing on Hard and adopting some good house rules.

  14. #14
    Pinkie Pie's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Triarii

    Is it possible to change what bonuses the ai gets on harder difficulties? Personally i think they should get an xp bonus.
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    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Triarii

    Quote Originally Posted by martin616 View Post
    Is it possible to change what bonuses the ai gets on harder difficulties? Personally i think they should get an xp bonus.
    Unfortunately the bonuses are hard coded, and there is no way to tell what level the player has chosen so we can't even use scripts to compensate.

  16. #16
    Pinkie Pie's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Triarii

    That is a major bummer, but surely the extra ttack (or is it defence?) doesnt really make a difference, a human player retrains therefore they keep higher xp on their units which can add up to 9 attack and defence not including gold weapons and shield that adds a further 3. ASAIK not even the massive bonus to morale on VH can compensate for that.
    In fact, im going to do a test fight, 1 VH triari unit vs 1 unit with full xp.
    *edit* Tried it and the extra bonuses they gained didnt make up for the bonus i got from xp.
    Last edited by Pinkie Pie; April 25, 2011 at 06:55 PM.
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    "She's ahead of the litter all right. The pick of the litter. The cat's pajamas. Oh wait. Why would Applejack take some poor kitty's pj's? That's not very sporting of her."
    "More balloons! No, that's too many balloons. More candy! No, less candy. Ooh! I know! Streamers!"
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  17. #17
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Triarii

    You can make up for it with xp bonuses of course. IIRC, the AI bonus on VH is +7 attack, +7 morale. The full xp bonus is +9 attack, +9 defence. But it is very hard to get an infantry unit to full xp, and Triarii almost always have some xp themselves; with Roman building bonuses it is not unusual for newly minted Triarii to come out with 4 xp, and their high defence means they often gain a lot of xp from AI vs AI battles.

  18. #18
    Pinkie Pie's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Triarii

    sure, during the beginning of a war it can be difficult but within 20 turns you would have destroyed all the ai's experienced units and then the advantage goes to the player with their better tactics, more balanced armies and stronger units.
    Even with 4xp they are barely a match for an experianced army. ASAIK the ai doesnt use the temples to help boost their units so a human player with the right conditions can start unit off with 5 xp, gold weapons and shields (compared to the ais being mainly bronze) and +4 to morale.
    That means the human unit can have 3 extra defence points, 3 less attack points and 3 less morale.
    All you would need to turn the table is a good general with morale boosting traits.
    Last edited by Pinkie Pie; April 25, 2011 at 08:03 PM.
    "I, Pinkie Pie, declare that these treats are fit for a king, or a queen, or a princess!"
    "Me? Ruin? I'm not the ruiner, I'm the ruinee! Or is it ruinness? Ruinette?"
    "She's ahead of the litter all right. The pick of the litter. The cat's pajamas. Oh wait. Why would Applejack take some poor kitty's pj's? That's not very sporting of her."
    "More balloons! No, that's too many balloons. More candy! No, less candy. Ooh! I know! Streamers!"
    "Oh my gosh. Hold on to your hooves – I am just about to be brilliant!"

  19. #19
    Ancient Aliens's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Triarii

    Quote Originally Posted by DimeBagHo View Post
    In general I don't recommend playing battles on VH. The AI bonuses on VH are large, and they can produce all sorts of weird results. If you want a tougher fight you are better off playing on Hard and adopting some good house rules.
    I actually like playing on VH, the AI's Eastern Spearmen being able to take out my Greek Hoplites makes me think on my feet, and it makes playing phalanx-based factions much more rewarding.

    But yeah house rules are an absolute must, RTW just has too many easily exploitable faults to play as is.

  20. #20
    Ancient Aliens's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Triarii

    Quote Originally Posted by DimeBagHo View Post
    Unfortunately the bonuses are hard coded, and there is no way to tell what level the player has chosen so we can't even use scripts to compensate.
    Would it be possible maybe to have one or more of the AI's buildings grant their units more experience maybe?

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