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Thread: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

  1. #41

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    I let the Republic die a slow death? I who broke Macedonian resolve in the East? You call me a snake, a murderer, and a war criminal, yet what have I done wrong on behalf of Rome? Have I slaughtered Romans? Have I sent them to wars unsanctioned by the Senate? Have I poisoned their blood with venomous words?

    If I had done anything, it was to help the Republic live, not die.

    Crusades
    Historical fiction - Fifty Tales from Rome


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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    "You haven't the slightest clue what it means to be Roman if you believe that." Faustus stood and faced Aulus, someone he considered a friend and now claims that Faustus was committing treason and standing against the people. "We've done whatever is in the best interest of the people, not ourselves. You stand here, and someone I've considered a friend and called me a traitor? Turning my back on the people? Bite your tongue! You have disgraced the people whom you claim to serve, you've disgraced Rome."
    Rabble rousing, Pleb Commander CK23

  3. #43

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    No,Tribune (He spits out the word like a curse)

    Pardoning this monster who would bring civil war down upon us is a disgrace to Rome,that his Co-Consul,who knows what Pallas is,would openly admit that he has given up on Romes role as guardian of peace, instead allowing Pallas's slaughter of innocents is a disgrace to Rome.

    That what I fought so hard to protect last term is already being destroyed is a disgrace to Rome.
    I am no disgrace to Rome.
    Last edited by War lord; April 14, 2011 at 02:27 PM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    But I did not bring civil war when I easily could have. Or has that detail slipped from your mind? I came back to Rome to stand for election so that I can legally carry out what had been legally assigned me. I obey the law to the letter and you call me a traitor. Pray tell, Licinius, what would you classify as a true Roman? One who would pardon the Macedonians that started this war? One that would show clemency to a people intent on fighting against us? One that would appear weak in front of the world?

    Crusades
    Historical fiction - Fifty Tales from Rome


    Can YOU dance like the Cookie Man?
    Improbe amor quid non mortalia pectora cogis? - The Aeneid
    I run an Asteroid mining website. Visit it before James Cameron takes it from me.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    *Spurius stood, irritated by the insults traded in the senate. Why did they care of Pallas, when it was obvious Poplicola is the true villain.*
    Silence senators! Aulus, you may disagree with Pallas' actions, but the senate has spoken, Pallas has been pardoned. Now, if you feel the need to pursue the matter, put forward a motion, so your words may have some effect. It sickens me to see the Senate wasting time with words that are meaningless!

    Pallas, be gone, your duty is with your troops now. You need not fear of being left defenceless whilst outside the halls, I for one am willing to look past the pillaging and see the wealth and success you have brought the Republic.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    Wasting time Scaeva?This is a matter of grave seriousness,therehas been no law and far too much bloodshed both in Rome and Macedonia

    Lex Licinius et Consulares

    1.Lucius Valerius Poplicola is hereby stripped of his office and is to be tried for assaulting a Roman Magistrate,abuse of the Office of Praetor during his term, holding arms and armor inside the Pomerium and illegally acting as a tyrant.

    2.Pallas Rutulus Aventinus is barred from holding any office from the start of the new year until its end.
    Last edited by War lord; April 14, 2011 at 04:13 PM.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    Now we are getting somewhere. I am glad to see this debate finally producing something of substance
    *Spurius smiled*
    Praetor, may I suggest you split that motions into two separate motions. I think some senators will find themselves conflicted, wishing to support one clause, but not the other.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    Very well then

    Lex Licinia et Valerii.

    Lucius Valerius Poplicola is hereby stripped of his office and is to be tried for assaulting a Roman Magistrate,abuse of the Office of Praetor during his term, holding arms and armor inside the Pomerium and illegally acting as a tyrant.
    Lex Licinia et Rutuli.

    2.Pallas Rutulus Aventinus is barred from holding any office from the start of the new year until its end.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    "I veto both motions." Faustus arose and stood his ground, he took a deep breath and starred at Aulus. "Acting as a tyrant? Says the man who planned to send Pallas out of Rome and re-call him to stand trial for his "crimes" and sending Poplicola to his death by accusing him of false accusations? Than tell me that he wishes to see himself installed as a dictator? Please...you are a sorry excuse for a Roman." Faustus remained standing as he seethed with anger. "You have done nothing for Rome or the People, you've sought your own gain this entire time and attempted to crucify others for their so called "gains!" Faustus screamed at Aulus, however in a restrained tone. "You've become the hypocrite that you wanted to protect the people from."
    Rabble rousing, Pleb Commander CK23

  10. #50

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    False accusations?

    Did he or did he not attack and maim the former Praetor?Did he not violate the Pomerium in doing so,and did he not wield dictatorial powers after Gracchus's downfall without appointment by the senate?

    He did all of these.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    That he did, and that is why I throw my full support behind both motions.

    Crusades
    Historical fiction - Fifty Tales from Rome


    Can YOU dance like the Cookie Man?
    Improbe amor quid non mortalia pectora cogis? - The Aeneid
    I run an Asteroid mining website. Visit it before James Cameron takes it from me.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    "Do we honestly fight among ourselves? With two wars on opposite sides of this peninsula?

    I second both motions, and ask Tribune Imperious to reconsider his veto - the lack of dignitas in the accuser does not render his accusation uncouth. The senate must stand strong and show that any deviation from our wishes will be punished, we must show strength.

    I, however, do whole-heartedly agree with the open hand to be given Pallas to crush Macedon - we must end one of our two wars. My abstention was one of dealing with religious festivals - my families archaic ways do not always fall in tune to the true calendar. Two wars mean two separate armies, Pallas will not risk civil war"

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    I support the first motion. Faustus, I implore you, have faith in our legal system. You are using your veto to support your own views, not those of the people you are supposed to represent. It was Poplicola as Praetor who brought legions into Rome, and savagly pacified the populace. True, they needed taming, but the legions were of no use, after all, was the Curia not burnt down? No, Poplicola simply engaged in bloodshed against the people you represent. Reconsider your veto!

  14. #54

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    Perhaps one should present his argument in a way that makes sense according to what everyone else saw, heard and voted for. One example being that it was Spurius who was maimed, not Gerges and by extension not the praetor, therefore the Censor was the one who lost his hand after violating your sacrosanctity in the Pomerium, his crime is more grievous than the one you charge me of and he should be strangled, instead we reward him with office. Pallas defying your intercessio and the will of the people was also a violation of your sacrosanct nature. By not charging him you begin to paint a picture of your corruption and strive for personal gain.

    You also did not actually charge Pallas for his crimes in Macedon and they were crimes senators. You made it a crime by merely supporting my motion and allowing it to pass. One who has not committed a crime has nothing to be pardoned for.

    He also claims that I wielded powers after Gracchus' reign reminiscent of a dictator and that I did so illegally. May I turn your attention to a rather old bill, Lex Regimen Morum et Censor, with special emphasis on section one:


    Lex Regimen Morum et Censor
    I. Effective immediately, Rome and the surrounding countryside will be put under martial law pending the arrival of the legions of Italy to the Campus Martius to enforce it. This responsibility shall be that of the Praetor, Lucius Valerius Poplicola, until the end of his term and the election that follows it, after which, martial law will be lifted.

    II. The Re-institution of the office of Censor to control the hot tempers and baseless accusations that have been thrown around as of late. This office as well as Censor will ensure the plebs that patricians are under threat of losing their status for crimes just below that of treason. This will be a Post-Consular position as the law used to suggest.


    Not only did I institute a position that protects the republic but by this bill's passing martial law was granted to me legally by the senate in order to protect its people and further the war effort against the remainder of the Punic armies in Northern Italy. Not only that senators, I asked for it and gained it before Gracchus' revolt.


    Terentius Aurelius Graeccus, you say you want the infighting to stop yet your actions prove that you want to ignite it, that you would support a war of civil strife rather than prevent it. You wish for a full blown trial against a duly elected Consul of Rome in a time of three-front warfare. Who will lead your armies? Incompetent whores seeking glory like Flaminius who's carcass has yet to be found? I have also followed the senate's wishes all but once and that is not what I am being charged for. Look at the facts next time you speak else you shall once again look as an insolent child.


    Lucius turned to Spurius.

    You're one to talk of crimes Spurius, are you still in the market for pocket change?
    Lucius Valerius Poplicola - Patrician - 34






  15. #55
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    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    *Spurius locks eyes with Poplicola, then forces a chuckle*
    Why, weren't you among those who elected me as Censor Suffectus? And as for your last remark, I do not know what you speak of.
    *It is unclear to the senators who were there the day Spurius lost his hand if Spurius in fact remembered the coin tossed into his lap moments before he collapsed. Even fewer knew anything of why Poplicola did such a thing in the first place*
    You need not worry Graeccus, the senate are full of fine men who would revel in the opportunity to show their talents in a position of Consul SUFFECTUS. If by the gods fortune we finally manage to leaver Poplicola from the consuls chair, finding a replacement will be the least of our troubles.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    "I demand that we charge Pallas for his crimes, but accept the reality that the war in Macedonia must be won, and he has already proved effective against them. After this present term, I believe he should be barred from office. Lucius I have no personal problem with you, just a wish that this senate does not continue to be spineless. Given the laws (ooc: gonna assume you didn't just make them up) you have quoted, this senate trying a man who held the powers of tyrant in our name, will vetoing and barring actions against a man who acted outside the law, is a subversion of our honour. I remove my support for Lex Licinia et Valerii."

  17. #57

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    None of this matters Poplicola,you blatantly broke the law, even having a Gladius past the Pomerium is enough to charge you with blasphemy.I also contest the claim that the Censor violated my sacrosanctity.

    As for Pallas while I would dearly like to strangle him myself we still need a competent man to command our Legions,besides YOU had him pardoned.
    Last edited by War lord; April 14, 2011 at 06:20 PM.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    Poplicola is indeed the man at fault here. Notice how his family are Patricians, and by birth, he to is a Patrician, ergo he is not a pleb. Now as I recall, it is the plebs that undertook the oath to protect the tribune, not the Patricians. So even if I did violate Aulus sacrosanctity, it was not for Poplicola to assault me, it was for the Plebs.
    Therefore, Praetor, I bring charges of assault upon Poplicola!

  19. #59

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    Are we not forgetting, Conscript Fathers, that to accuse an elected magistrate we must remove him from office.

    The smile on Pallas' face grew. So what if he is barred from holding office in the next term. Two times consul and the conqueror of Macedonia is good enough for him. And with a few more political maneuvers, he could even take away the stipulation about to be enacted upon him this term.

    Your move, Poplicola.

    Crusades
    Historical fiction - Fifty Tales from Rome


    Can YOU dance like the Cookie Man?
    Improbe amor quid non mortalia pectora cogis? - The Aeneid
    I run an Asteroid mining website. Visit it before James Cameron takes it from me.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Consulate of Aventinus and Poplicola - 543AVC

    I ask the Tribune to withdraw his Veto on the Lex Licinia et Valerii in the name of Justice.

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