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Thread: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

  1. #81
    Future Filmmaker's Avatar Armchair Cynic
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Conservatives have really set the bar so high that Dems cant compromise. Boehner wants to but the tea party caucus doesnt.

    But your blaming Dems because they wont cave into the Tea Partys demands?
    Dude, the Democrats are the ones that wanted a government shutdown just because they don't agree with the proposed cuts. Without reform of SS and Medicare, we will LOSE it.

    It's the fault of both for not proposing anything that satisfied both sides. They're just letting their respective bullheadedness get in the way to make political statements. The Dems are acting like cuts will destroy all the social programs and Reps are acting like the Dems just want more socialism.
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  2. #82
    Mythos's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    What about the Tourists who happen to be flying over this week or next and will only find closed Museums?
    You could always put up signs saying "welcome to Greece!". Most of them will understand.

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  3. #83
    Thorn777's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jin View Post
    Obama's stimulus package cost more than the entire Iraq war. The funny thing is that everyone wants to point the finger at the defense budget as the reason for a large deficit, yet it's because of stupid social programs that are poorly conceived, badly applied, and horribly run that cost us most money. As recently as 2007 the budget deficit was at 161.5 billion dollars and that was after years of spending on both Iraq and Afghanistan. Now it's around 1.5 trillion. This because of the longest recession since the 1930s, depressed tax revenues, increased government cost for safety nets for programs such as unemployment, welfare, and spending by both outgoing Bush and Obama for bank bailouts and automaker bailouts as well as failed stimulus packages. To say nothing of medicare spending which seems like more of a black hole than anything. Then you have social security.

    The DoD has already been doing massive budget cuts under DefSec Robert Gates and we have tried to curtail spending but lots of it is being pushed upon the DoD by congress as I explained earlier. Beyond that people take issue because there aren't easily recognizable benefits to having a strong military, but one can't seem to comprehend how big a deal it would be if we can't intervene somewhere in our interest. Just look at how the conflict in Libya has effected oil prices? How does it effect Europe and why do many European countries see it as necessary to step in stabilize the place? Consider back to the Gulf War when Saddam invaded Kuwait and also attacked Saudi Arabia. We defended major oil producing regions within Saudi Arabia and then stayed there in order to safeguard the locations (which led to severe backlash from radicals like Bin Laden). But consider that if you have volatile situations in areas like SA cracking off then you have a severely destabilizing situation where oil prices would sky rocket then you'd really have American clamoring when they are paying six or seven dollars a gallon, which btw is what most Europeans pay anyways because oil is pegged to the American dollar and not the Euro or pound. Again, if this were to change you can bet your sweet ass the American economy would take a severe nose dive, but the military is a big reason it hasn't/probably won't.
    Thats like saying to the wife: "the money we've spend on groceries this entire year exceeds the amount I've just spend on this purple pimped-out Swayback Cadillac, woman!"....

    "There is no such thing as an independent press. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
    John Swinton, Chief of Staff, NY Times.

  4. #84
    charles the hammer's Avatar Kamikaze
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Thats like saying to the wife: "the money we've spend on groceries this entire year exceeds the amount I've just spend on this purple pimped-out Swayback Cadillac, woman!"....
    I dont see how that analogy makes sense.



  5. #85
    Thorn777's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by charles the hammer View Post
    I dont see how that analogy makes sense.
    One thing was needed to stay alive, the other just a giant waste of money. But "its cheaper".

    EDIT: when your white and not into the Swayback Cadillac, just replace it for the latest maxed out Dodge Ram or whatever expensive boy-toy.
    Last edited by Thorn777; April 07, 2011 at 04:36 PM.

    "There is no such thing as an independent press. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
    John Swinton, Chief of Staff, NY Times.

  6. #86
    charles the hammer's Avatar Kamikaze
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    One thing was needed to stay alive, the other just a giant waste of money. But "its cheaper".
    my mistake, I dont get it in the context or how it applies, he wasnt just saying that because its more expensive he gave his opinion on why its cost is way to high. I understand what you were trying to say.
    Last edited by charles the hammer; April 07, 2011 at 04:38 PM.



  7. #87
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    One thing was needed to stay alive, the other just a giant waste of money. But "its cheaper".
    It worked ... remember that Bush already had his stimulus to ''save'' the banking system, double red pile dose for mass effect

    So many things go wrong in life that a sense of humor, even of the macabre type, should have been standard issue.

  8. #88
    Thorn777's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    It worked ... remember that Bush already had his stimulus to ''save'' the banking system, double red pile dose for mass effect

    Wow, what an 99% of economist on the liquidity-trap beating argument. If I just had bizarro-vision to somehow look what would have happened to US unemployment-figures without the stimulus...

    "There is no such thing as an independent press. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
    John Swinton, Chief of Staff, NY Times.

  9. #89
    charles the hammer's Avatar Kamikaze
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Wow, what an 99% of economist on the liquidity-trap beating argument. If I just had bizarro-vision to somehow look what would have happened to US unemployment-figures without the stimulus...
    That is the real issue when saying whether it failed or succeded,(or was a good or bad idea) their is really no way to know what would have happened without it.



  10. #90
    Thorn777's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by charles the hammer View Post
    That is the real issue when saying whether it failed or succeded,(or was a good or bad idea) their is really no way to know what would have happened without it.
    Except that its not, like history and strongly supported economic-theory. Also when not applied would just be lets say "radical and daring". This was completely bi-partisan for a reason, even among Libertarians at Heart kind of guys.

    Its purely ideological to debate against this.

    "There is no such thing as an independent press. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
    John Swinton, Chief of Staff, NY Times.

  11. #91
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Praefectus Legionis
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Here's an article on which parts of the government will shut down and what won't.

    (There is a lot more in the won't be shutting down column)

    Funny Story:

    I actually had planned on being at Mammoth Cave National Park this weekend, but my wife fell and broke her leg last week so we had to cancel.
    I dont think your wife would find that funny, I'm just saying...

  12. #92
    Thorn777's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    I dont think your wife would find that funny, I'm just saying...
    I think he's the Swayback Cadillac kind of guy, so dont worry about BWB.

    "There is no such thing as an independent press. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
    John Swinton, Chief of Staff, NY Times.

  13. #93
    Menelik_I's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Except that its not, like history and strongly supported economic-theory. Also when not applied would just be lets say "radical and daring". This was completely bi-partisan for a reason, even among Libertarians at Heart kind of guys.

    Its purely ideological to debate against this.
    Actually not Mein Freund.

    If the stimulus worked so well, why is the FED engaging in Quantitative Easing ie bareback inflation stimulus ?
    So many things go wrong in life that a sense of humor, even of the macabre type, should have been standard issue.

  14. #94
    Thorn777's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Actually not Mein Freund.

    If the stimulus worked so well, why is the FED engaging in Quantitative Easing ie bareback inflation stimulus ?
    Cuz it was to small(also cuz of Iraq spending), coupled with other bad economic policies. But at least 10% unemployment is not a 1929 situation. Not that we cant get there still.

    "There is no such thing as an independent press. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
    John Swinton, Chief of Staff, NY Times.

  15. #95
    Matthias's Avatar Banzai jūden-ki
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Obama's stimulus package cost more than the entire Iraq war.
    Patently false. The Obama stimulus package was $787 billion dollars, and was a compromise with Republicans, so that 1/3 went to investing in infrastructure, 1/3 was tax cuts, and 1/3 went to states that couldn't meet their budget deficits. So only 1/3 of that money was actually government spending and not transfers, so about $225 billion dollars was spent. It was also in response to the worst recession since the Great Depression.

    The Iraq War, on the other hand, in the long run, according to CBO estimates, will cost us 1.9 trillion dollars. Between 350 billion to 700 billion will be spent on long term health care of injured soldiers alone. And this is just Iraq. And the Iraq War is still going, and I will bet you a trillion that the 1.9 trillion estimate, made in 2007, will be too low.

    Now, going off the 1.9 trillion figure alone, that means the Iraq War will cost each US citizen $6,300. Other estimates say 3 trillion when all is said and done.

    The funny thing is that everyone wants to point the finger at the defense budget as the reason for a large deficit, yet it's because of stupid social programs that are poorly conceived, badly applied, and horribly run that cost us most money.
    No, no, no, and no. The reason for our deficit has been stupid wars and tax cuts, with more tax cuts, followed by more tax cuts. The Bush tax cuts cost us the most money.

    As recently as 2007 the budget deficit was at 161.5 billion dollars and that was after years of spending on both Iraq and Afghanistan. Now it's around 1.5 trillion. This because of the longest recession since the 1930s, depressed tax revenues, increased government cost for safety nets for programs such as unemployment, welfare, and spending by both outgoing Bush and Obama for bank bailouts and automaker bailouts as well as failed stimulus packages. To say nothing of medicare spending which seems like more of a black hole than anything. Then you have social security.
    Why is the stimulus package "failed"? We are no longer in a recession. What would have been a success? The bank bailouts have almost all been paid back by the way (the Tarp funds), Social Security has been used to pay for other programs for years (like the wars), and our healthcare costs are so high because we have a privatized system that is subsidized by government, unlike any other developed nation on Earth, and it shows.

    The DoD has already been doing massive budget cuts under DefSec Robert Gates and we have tried to curtail spending but lots of it is being pushed upon the DoD by congress as I explained earlier. Beyond that people take issue because there aren't easily recognizable benefits to having a strong military, but one can't seem to comprehend how big a deal it would be if we can't intervene somewhere in our interest.
    Waaaaay overstated interest.

    Just look at how the conflict in Libya has effected oil prices? How does it effect Europe and why do many European countries see it as necessary to step in stabilize the place? Consider back to the Gulf War when Saddam invaded Kuwait and also attacked Saudi Arabia. We defended major oil producing regions within Saudi Arabia and then stayed there in order to safeguard the locations (which led to severe backlash from radicals like Bin Laden). But consider that if you have volatile situations in areas like SA cracking off then you have a severely destabilizing situation where oil prices would sky rocket then you'd really have American clamoring when they are paying six or seven dollars a gallon, which btw is what most Europeans pay anyways because oil is pegged to the American dollar and not the Euro or pound. Again, if this were to change you can bet your sweet ass the American economy would take a severe nose dive, but the military is a big reason it hasn't/probably won't.
    This is the logic that is killing the US. Instead of investing in technology to wean us off of oil, we spend trillions of dollars and lots of blood intervening all over the world and getting people pissed at us. There is no way the cost/beneift is positive. The truth is, oil companies have a lot of clout, as do defense companies.

    Not to mention the "morality" of it.

  16. #96
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    If American troops are not paid, will they mutiny?




  17. #97
    Matthias's Avatar Banzai jūden-ki
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    If American troops are not paid, will they mutiny?
    Mabey after a while. But something tells me they'll somehow fund the troops separately.

    You never hear Tea Partiers raging against the military and weaning all those "lazy government workers" (soldiers) off of their pompous salaries. That's because Tea Partiers are ignorant and stupid.

  18. #98
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    Mabey after a while. But something tells me they'll somehow fund the troops separately.

    You never hear Tea Partiers raging against the military and weaning all those "lazy government workers" (soldiers) off of their pompous salaries. That's because Tea Partiers are ignorant and stupid.
    haha, good point. And yes the Tea Partiers do make me chuckle from time to time.




  19. #99
    motiv-8's Avatar Tribunus Laticlavius
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    Mabey after a while. But something tells me they'll somehow fund the troops separately.

    You never hear Tea Partiers raging against the military and weaning all those "lazy government workers" (soldiers) off of their pompous salaries. That's because Tea Partiers are ignorant and stupid.
    It might have somethign to do with the fact that a soldier serving overseas is a distinctly different position than a red-tape-guzzling bureaucrat occupying a mundane position in XYZ branch of ABC department.
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  20. #100
    Cougar109's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: USA Federal shutdown. What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    It might have somethign to do with the fact that a soldier serving overseas is a distinctly different position than a red-tape-guzzling bureaucrat occupying a mundane position in XYZ branch of ABC department.
    Come on now, we all know the military has it's fair share of red-tape-guzzling bureaucrats occupying mundane positions.

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