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Thread: Feature Requests

  1. #21

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    I wonder if you might also want to consider a bigger starting boost for the Seleucids. I believe that XGM uses a script or some other method to improve their starting position, but I haven't seen them do very well at all in my two campaigns so far. In my GCS campaign they held on for over 100 years but never really expanded. In my current Carthage campaign it is about 250bc and the Seleucids are already gone (along with Pontus). Pontus fell victim to a very successful GCS (they have all of Anatolia) and Seleucids to the Ptolemaic empire. Scipii is also gone, strange enough. They must have lost all their family members.

    Has anyone seen the Seleucids become a power in their campaigns? I know that the Seleucids have difficulty expanding in Vanilla and all the mods, but I thought that with the fancy new XGM units and so on they could make a go of it.

  2. #22
    Kara Kolyo's Avatar Mikhail
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    please no further boost for the seleucs at least in MM 2 campaigns with partia and 1 with armenia, they came at turn 10 with 3 war elephants, phalanxes and argiraspids and it wasn't funny i should say. for victory conditions my suggestions are:
    1 parthia- restore the persian empire, including egypt, asia mnor and maybe athens and pela as retaliation for that Alex chap.
    2 scythia- create "empire of the steppes"- all the steppe provinces+ some of northern iran and the lands north of Danube.
    thats all i can think of for the moment


    under the patronage of Perikles in the house of Wilpuri
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  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kara Kolyo
    please no further boost for the seleucs at least in MM 2 campaigns with partia and 1 with armenia, they came at turn 10 with 3 war elephants, phalanxes and argiraspids and it wasn't funny i should say.
    How did the Seleucids fare in the long-run on MM? I only use the rgeular map.

  4. #24
    Kara Kolyo's Avatar Mikhail
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    well lately i haven't play very long campaigns, but they hold their ground for at least 50 years. i saw somewhere that they don't expand too much as some civ option given by CA. but they field large armies and attack pergamum and so on.

    About scythian victory conditions. maybe the provinces in the Balkans between Danube and Balkan mountain should be added as objective? they were reffered by the byzantine authors as "Lesser Scythia"


    under the patronage of Perikles in the house of Wilpuri
    Proud patron of Cymera

  5. #25

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    I play only with MM and the Seleucids have never been a real threat in the long run so far.

  6. #26
    Kara Kolyo's Avatar Mikhail
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    what is your fealing about giving the eastern factions the first two levels of sewers? and there are the chariots. i know tha when Ceasar whent to Britain they were nasty surprise, but as far as i know chariots lost their millitary value arround the meditteranean long before the start of the game? maybe make them exotic unit that can't be trained massively?


    under the patronage of Perikles in the house of Wilpuri
    Proud patron of Cymera

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea69
    I play only with MM and the Seleucids have never been a real threat in the long run so far.
    Aha. That is what I would like to change if possible. It seems to me that the Seleucids have one of the strongest unit line-ups in the game but never survive long enough to be a real threat to the usual late-game powers--Rome and Egypt. I would like to see them become a real power, at least some of the time, for the sake of variety. One tires of fighting endless stacks of legionaries..

  8. #28
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Zarax: Agema Hypaspists is what I am leaning towards. It seems like the most Macedonian option (the other obvious options being a copy legionary unit, like the Seleucids, or a hoplite unit like the GCS and Egypt).

    mmmrrrr: I like 0 turn recruiting the way that Lt has done it in SPQR, but I don't think it will ever happen in XGM. The problem with making low quality units 0 turn is that you would see a lot of them. And there tends to be a problem with population striping as well (settlements get reduced to 400 pop and stay there).

    Kara Kolyo & Froggie5: In campaigns where I stay out of things (I often play the Britons and just step through 100+ turns just to make sure everything is working) the Seleucids often become the dominant power in the east (especially on the vanilla map). About half the time the Ptolemies come out on top, sometimes there are surprises like the Armenians or Pontics going on a rampage.

    As for chariots - I have phased out chariot archers for the civilised factions. I believe scythed chariots were still in use, so i have left them in for the Ptolemies, Seleucids, and Pontus. The Britons have had their chariots toned down considerably. One possibily for scythed chariots would be to add javelin riders to them.

    Andrea69: AOR elephants in the distant east on Mundus Magnus sounds like a good idea.

  9. #29
    Kara Kolyo's Avatar Mikhail
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    About the 0 construction time, i saw too that the seleucs keep spamming low level units till their cities remain with 400 inhabitants and so later they can't produse lots of higher units simply because the cities are still small. Dime when can i start sharpening my knife for the median cavalry????


    under the patronage of Perikles in the house of Wilpuri
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  10. #30

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    my list, but of course, only if most agree with me
    1) lower barbarian upkeep to make it more realistic.( i have read some books, and they got LOTs low warriors and the romans where BADly out numbered.
    2) increase Cavalry cost and upkeep bacause they were Precious.
    3)lower some armor defence of some cavalry like legionary cav and... things other than cataphrac should not even have a def over than 20.
    4)make general cav hp 1 but increase def a little, it was ridiculous that how hard to kill them even surround them with troops( generally horse should not be so STRONG )
    5)increase charge dis for cav a little, in reality they do need some distance to reach full gallop and it look better.
    6)increase def skill(not armor or shield) of all troops a little.(maybe be shield for romans)
    7)triple cav charge bonus
    8)lower archer and slinger missle attck overall unless armor penetraion factor implemented, romans should be almost immune to them from front.
    9)triple charge bonus for thing like axe, long sword used by barbarians. increas spear a little, maybe double for the short swords hold by romans.
    10)definatly should increase upkeep and cost for elephants.
    11)remove seige engines for some faction, i think only roman used theirs when against barbarians.

    all i can think for now. I know u trying to make it similar to vanilla, but the mod has gone a long way that it is almost a complete conversion now.

  11. #31
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Kara Kolyo: The Medians will be in the next release.

    hzh: I like most of those ideas. (8) Has already been done. Slingers have an attack of 3-4 depending on the unit, and can't be upgraded (although ranks will still make a big difference). Regular archers now have an attack of 5. Elite units have an attack of 7. Temple bonuses are a bit of a problem. Cretan Archers + Large Temple of Artemis + Awesome Temple of Nike = some very good Archers with an attack of 13. Maybe the temple of Artemis should be toned down a bit. (11) Probably won't happen, and the dramtic increases in charge bonuses probably won't happen, but I might do something about charge bonuses for the barbarians.

  12. #32

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    Currently I am playing with Carthago in Provincial Campaign and I have to say that it is quite difficult.
    Carthago seems a little underpowered. Clearly lacks good infantry and cavalry units other than Sacred band to recruit outside of Carthago, otherwise fighting the post marian Romans is nearly impossible only with Poeni infantry (who in my opinion are not so good as they cost). Moreover Carthago cannot build any Pantheon and has not a military temple. Maybe you should rise a little the Poeni infantry stats and add a military temple to Carthago or add another high ranked infantry or cavalry unit.

  13. #33
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Andrea69: That's mostly by design. Historically the problem that the Carthaginians had was a lack of good infantry that could go toe-to-toe in battle with Roman infantry. They should have an advantage in cavalry though, so I might take a look at their cavalry units again. Look out for good temples to capture as well - you can upgrade anything now.

    I have been tweaking stats a bit - starting with temples. The temple of Artemis and temple of Nike in particlar make it too easy to get extremely good troops early on (Illyrians and Cretans with gold weapons, and 3 chevrons are extremely dangerous for example). So I have converted the temple of Artemis to something more like a temple of forge - it progressively gives bonuses to all weapon types, and armour, but unlike the temple of forge it starts with missile weapons. So now you need a blacksmith to get silver missile weapons, and a forge to get gold.

    With the temple of Nike, and most of the others that give experience bonuses I have changed them so that they now alternate between increments of experience and morale. The temple of Nike goes (exp/morale) 0/0, 1/0, 1/1, 2/1, 2/2. So the maximum experience boost is 2, and you need an awesome temple for that. Only the temple of viking and temple of horse still allow for bonuses of 3.

    With temples of farming and fertility I have cut the bonuses off at 3, and given law bonuses after that. With many other temples I have cut the added bonuses that appeared at the Pantheon level.

    Another change I am looking at is one suggested by hzh - increasing defense stats. I think I will probably give a boost of 2 points across the board, and four points to spear units, making them better defensive troops, although still weak as offensive troops.

  14. #34

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    Hi DBH,

    I was hoping that you might consider adding the Modding Legions compatibility files in the Extras folder of future updates. Since you are already changing the descr_model_battle and descr_unit files in most of your updates it should be easy to make a ML version as well (just add new stats/units to both versions). I understand if you feel that you already have enough on your plate, its just that I am always playing catch up because the new versions come out so dang fast!

    Thanks.

  15. #35
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Froggie5: It would probably be easy enough for me to include new changes - they are usually pretty simple - but testing would be a problem. Each time I include a new option in the supported release the testing time doubles, and in this case checking LODs, skins, sprites, etc, might take a while. So I don't think I will have time to include it in the supported release. But what I will try to do is to make the text file changes and post them here, so that you can try them out and add them to the top post. At least then an up to date version will be availble with each release, even if it is untested.

    More Stat Tweaks:

    Barbarian upkeep costs are reduced by 50% on almost all non-cavalry units, and recruitment costs for many units are reduced as well. -Had to reverse this because of population effects and because the barbarians went nuts and started over-running everything.

    Phalanx units now have a significant penalty in scrub of -4, and a high penalty in forests of -6. Elite phalanx units get less severe penalties (representing better training in maintaining formation on uneven or broken ground) of -2/-4. Hoplite units get more modest penalties of -1/-2.

    All units have been given a +2 defense bonus, non-phalanx spear units have had their lethality reduced, but have been given an additional +2 defense bonus. Phalanx units have had their lethality reduced, but regular and elite phalangites have also been given an increased attack.

    I quite like the way this has workeed out in testing. Spear units will take quite a while to kill the enemy, but they are much more effective as defensive units - able to hold the line while other more offensive units manouvre. Combat procedes a little more slowly, and flanking is now more important.

    General units now have 1 hp, drastically reduced charge bonuses (max 4), and drastically reduced morale (max 8), but they get an additional +2 bonus to defense and armour. They are harder to kill than regular cavalry units, but not as insanely indestructable as before. They should be a little less likely to charge into battle, and a little more likely to run for it when the going gets tough.

    Recruitment times for elite phalangite units are now 1 turn, instead of 2 turns.
    Last edited by DimeBagHo; April 04, 2006 at 06:05 AM.

  16. #36
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Good job, I'll test everything later...
    BTW, the late ptolemy agema should be a legion style unit too as it was equipped that way around 60-80BC (can't remember the exact dates) by ptolemy auletes...

    Other than that, I would add a late numidian heavy cavalry similar to the pontic one (although iberian and numidian noble units should really be celtic style, actually numidian generals used iberian cavalry bodyguards) and revise the upkeep costs as they still low for most elites... A 400 people town produces just in tax revenue more than a legionary cohort or most elites upkeep (around 330 plus farming and trade), money should really be tightened for a lot of units and upkeeps rebalanced as in proportion to the city level you will find that the highest upkeeps goes to militia units (which upkeep is one third to one half of settlement tax income depending on the town size).
    The Best Is Yet To Come:

  17. #37
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Feature Requests

    After playing around with recruitment costs for the Barbarians I think that this area is going to require a lot of testing. Cutting support costs had some quite unexpected results. For one thing population stripping was a real problem, and they went nuts and over-ran the Romans quite quickly. Increasing costs wouldn't cause that sort of problem - but it would mean lower quality AI stacks.

    BTW, I've updated the top post.

  18. #38
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Feature Requests

    Barbarian upkeeps are fine, maybe they can be 10-20% lower than the "civilized" equivalent units but that's it... What kills the game is the ability to field and maintan stacks of elites once you reach 8-10 cities, which is the true immersion killer (that and being spammed by hordes of agemas from egypt when I play as carthage)...

    BTW, I added the "desert resource" in the file I sent you, I really think farms should be limited in these regions...
    The Best Is Yet To Come:

  19. #39

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    Hello Zarax

    Why not a Late Agema unit (after Marius) for Eggie, equipped like legionaries?

    I agree with Numidian Heavy Cavalry, they need it.

  20. #40
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Feature Requests

    Yes, I agree that tightening up the player's economy would be good. I just wish there was a more direct way to influence the AI economies so that they could recruit more elite units. AI family members get quite substantial economic bonuses now, but of course the AI often leaves cities without governors.

    Some time I might go through the files and make a it a little tougher for the players family members to pick up virtues and good ancillaries.

    The game didn't like having a "not hidden_resource" condition for a building, so I think that limiting farms will have to be done by adding a "fertile" resource to all the places that should be able to build the top level farms. But that means I will need to do the vanilla and MM maps at the same time. You can just stick with desert resources, for now, and I will switch them around when I get the file.

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