Finances

[TheFirstONeill]

Do you (to all the Thera players) think that the human player has too much money.

If so when,

) start game
) late game
) the whole time

I would like this input in order to tune V4

[Kaiser Leonidas]

I find that I start with a lot of money at the start of the game compared to other mods, although I quite like this as I try to have something being built in all of my settlements at the same time so this starting money doesn't normally last long. But after I've gone on a huge spending spree, my finances normally level out at around 5-10k available to spend each turn.

[jan_boruta]

Too much in the early game for me. I'd cut the finances by half, or even by two thirds. Of course, the AI should get the money handicap at the start of the campaign, because they often go bankrupt or really low on cash in ~25 turns.

But it's my nature of a turtle gamer that wants the human player treasury to be smaller

[Torvus]

I actually like to have to manage my money straight from the start, so a smaller beginning purse is better. Also, I think that these realms that have been cut off from the rest of the world for so long are unlikely to have built up such treasuries.

[TheFirstONeill]

Too much in the early game for me. I'd cut the finances by half, or even by two thirds. Of course, the AI should get the money handicap at the start of the campaign, because they often go bankrupt or really low on cash in ~25 turns.

But it's my nature of a turtle gamer that wants the human player treasury to be smaller

Yes this purely for the human player

[A_Dane]

Well, I'm gonna say "too much in early game", probably why some people find it "easy", as it really allows for alot of rushing if that's how you play it.
I don't really have a problem with it as such, as I like turtling, so I just spend the gold on building up and stuff, but in the end it really depends whether or not the early game is suppoused to be harder

[.:Zack Fair:.]

Rush Now!!

According to me it's fine

[TheFirstONeill]

Just to clarify, those who have voted "too much money in the early game", do you mean only in the early game and the late game is okay ? Or that there is too much early and late ?

This is important as the remedy will be slightly different.

[Torvus]

Yes, it is only the early game finances I have fault with. Late game empires are supposed to make lots of money because they've had a chance to build.

[Townie]

I think it should be a bit more of a challenge for the player. Having lower starting money will mean more micro for your empire. And it will make buildings like market's/farms etc. more valuable.

[jan_boruta]

Yes, it is only the early game finances I have fault with. Late game empires are supposed to make lots of money because they've had a chance to build.

Seconded. It's natural that when you have 20+ provinces you make quite a large profit.

[TheFirstONeill]

Cool, if its early game only its just tweaks to starting treasury and kings purse, if it was late game too them it would require tweaking resource trade values.

[Heart of Madness]

Too much for you and the non-player in the late game for me. But personally I like it that way, because I just by General's Bodyguard and steamroll armies 100x my size.

Once I won a battle 18-2700, and only lost 9 men.

[Massive_attack]

I find total war games are the most fun when both the player and AI make craptons of money from all buildings, somehow, but the AI makes 20-25 percent more. I get so mad when modders try to spread the wealth or something and subtract arbitrary sums of money without your consent in scripts (from the player treasury). It makes more sense for there to be alot of cash moving around. I hate when games I play essentially become micromanaging two stacks of units and just barely not breaking my bank. Especially when in reality countries fielded armies with many thousands more. If not hundred-thousands.

Luckily thera doesnt really hate the player as much. Your economics are good, TFON. The only things id advise are a revised moneyscript for the AI giving them cash when they go bankrupt (if that happens) as well as a single flat wad of cash every turn, which decreases or increases depending on how many settlements they own. So crippled factions can fight back and have a chance to survive and retake there lands, or empires fight harder after the opening blows of a war, I feel they run out of steam rather quickly after you dismantle a few field armies. Besides that, perhaps adding more effects to buildings, and more economic buildings for factions, could help liven up my inner monopoly-man. Something like specific ore mines (only available if the resource is in that territory) or banks, guilds, (when i say guilds i mean in the real life sense when there was like, fourty of them in every city, not just one), perhaps a tax system where you build a tax office that generates alot of revenue at the expense of happiness, which can be upgraded (to tax them higher, and provoke the people more), maybe make inns useful other than making your entire family alcoholic and your cities slightly happier, population growth boons would make sense for them. I mean, they are centers of promiscuity and they would probably cause the local whores to find men a bit easier.

I dont know, more bonuses and unique buildings and such for each civilization would be cool and make things much more interesting imho.

[TheFirstONeill]

The Ai receives tops ups if it goes broke as well as first turn increases in kings purse already in V3.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I like it just the way it is personally.

[Macrath]

the 50000 starting purse does seem rather high to me, i find this promotes early military action and less micro management. Now if you have an aggressive play style and enjoy massing huge armies and constantly going to war this is right up your alley. However if you are big on the diplomatic and economic play styles where you must carefully manage taxes, troop garrisons and build types, this large purse really makes those facets of the game very simplified.
I have only played a campaign as the Uruk Dominion so far, and starting with as much money as i did made for a very simple game. And to me it seemed like instead of taking control of a race just recovering from a major world wide catastrophe i was taking control of an economic superpower with the ability to recruit an extremely dangerous military. The question that came to mind upon beginning my first campaign was "With all this money and land why am i only making pennies each turn?" I mean a $50000 treasury is quite impressive, and compared to the starting situation ie. small armies and basic city structures. it would seem for that last couple hundred years the Uruks have done nothing but collect a few pennies every turn until they amassed a $50000 bankroll. Because based upon their position at turn 1 i cannot understand how they could have possibly ammassed such a fortune.
In my opinion i would like to see the beginning purse vary from race to race and also be much much smaller. It makes sense that some races would be more successful economically then others. Also during my campaign as the Uruks i noticed that Merchants were not available, personally in the Vanilla game i disliked Merchants because i found them quite useless, however they are a good option for an alternate source of income if the value of resources are increased (and let's face it at this time period on Thera natural resources would most likely be very valuable). I think if you lower the starting purse but allow players to use merchants to compete over valuable resources in key areas, it would allow for more multi management as well as a feeling that you are truly fighting for control over what limited resources are available to the people of Thera.
My ideal version of Thera is this:
(1) $1000-$10000 starting Bankroll depending on the race you pick, with a $500-$1500 profit per turn to start. This would still allow the player to attack early but with less force then if you had a $50000 purse backing them, or they will have the option to build structures to increase their Finances before mounting an attack. Currently with a $50000 purse i find it is very easy to field a powerful army while having little effect on the amount i can build and the only financial worry i ever have is just a simple question of which City do i conquer next.

2) Merchants...umm well..Useful Merchants.. I would love to see Merchants play a role in Thera, The way i look at it is, after a major cataclysm natural resources and the means to collect these resources would be extremely valuable, control over Natural resources in times such as these i think would be just as important as military might and would be essential to any successful nation. Therefore i would love to see the average value of most Resources at $500-$1000 per turn with the occassional "rare" type of resource being worth 1000-2500 per turn.

3) Move less distance on the campaign map each turn. At first glance of Theras map i was amazed at it's size. But as a traveled the map it felt much smaller, and this was due to the fact that i could cross entire continents in just a few short turns. I was able to sail from Valhala in the north all the way down to the Uruk Dominion in 4-5 turns. At times i enjoyed the freedom to move so far in one turn but just as often i found it took away from the feeling that Thera is Truly an immense and vast land. This is not that much of an issue i just think it would make for a more immersive and challenging experience if movement rate was cut back.

Other then those 3 points i have enjoyed every other aspect of the mod and it is easily my #1 Favorite mod for any Total war game. Just the thought of this mod improving in any aspect brings a smile to my face.

Now before this post turns into a friggin book i will be off to start a new Campagin as either the Gaelic Nation or those oh so cool Privateers.

[TheFirstONeill]

Welcome Macrath, thats quite a post. A coupe of point I must address, Merchants will not be added to the game. Do a search in this forum for Merchants to see how often I have fended off such requests

I do agree on the money side. What I need to decided is whether V4 has a small patch for restrict the money, or if the main game is set up that way.

Movement points are changed dramatically dependant upon your generals ability. The Uruks do have extra movement points as part of their beastial ability.

[Dodge]

I work in the finance depeartment at work so maybe I can help. I have a caclulater.

[TheFirstONeill]

I work in the finance depeartment at work so maybe I can help. I have a caclulater.

But no spell checker
A kind offer, but I think we will be okay