Jante Law

[Théoric HämmerHörde]

SO,
I've always wanted to go to Scandinavia, or better yet Iceland. Just to get back in touch with my Germanic heritage. As much as high taxes annoy the piss out of me, Scandinavia has so much more to offer- Black Folk and Melodeath Metals, hot blondes, and sick looking stave churches. So for a while I've been like "Scandinavia, yeah!"
But browsing the good old wikipedia one day i found out about these customs of humility, the "Jante Law." As stated on wikipedia

"The Danish-Norwegian author Aksel Sandemose in his novel A fugitive crosses his tracks (En flyktning krysser sitt spor, 1933, English translation published in the USA in 1936) identified the Jante Law as a series of rules. Sandemose's novel portrays the small Danish town Jante (modelled upon his native town Nykøbing Mors as it was at the beginning of the 20th century, but typical of all very small towns), where nobody is anonymous."

The ten rules state:
Don't think you're anything special.
Don't think you're as good as we.
Don't think you're smarter than we.
Don't convince yourself that you're better than we.
Don't think you know more than we.
Don't think you are more important than we.
Don't think you are good at anything.
Don't laugh at us.
Don't think anyone cares about you.
Don't think you can teach us anything.

As I learned in the sixth grade, wikipedia is chocked full of bull. So I took my research a bit farther and started reading some message boards (also often chocked full of bull ), and read some horror stories about Scandinavians being complete dicks to people on the basis of them being successful. Okay, I understand these laws are good for keeping Charlie Sheen out of Europe, but now I'm rather hesitant to go over, and especially to stay for an extended period due to fear of ostricization. And as icing and a cherry on top of the cluster I'm politically libertarian, and if they find that out they could burn me at the stake for all I know.

Any suggestions? Preferably from somebody from/living in Norway/Sweden/Denmark.

And is this sort of thing common in Iceland or Finland as well?

[molonthegreat]

I think that the Jante law still is very much prevalent in Sweden at least, it's just the mindset that one shouldn't be anything special and just accept fate. Individualism isn't really accepted here either, there's this thing that all should strive to be part of the larger group and if you for example would go out to the bar or travel on a vacation alone you would probably be seen as very odd.

[Théoric HämmerHörde]

Nobody likes adventure? It sounds like the Shire haha. What do they think of Americans? (I'm from America but don't think of my self as "American," but more Anglo Saxon, kin of Brits, Western Canadians and Australians). I mean obviously theres too many big fat arrogant morons, but would people thinking "He's from America" be points against me?

Yes us Anglo Saxons aren't thought of as Scandinavians, but all Germanic Peoples come from the stretch from Saxony through Sweden

[molonthegreat]

Well a lot of stupid people have bought into the common misconceptions of Americans but I doubt that something ill will come from that, it's more that people will think that you're exotic and interesting.

[Théoric HämmerHörde]

It's not that these misconceptions are terribly inaccurate. There are legions and hoards of fat load blokes over here. Sure I encountered some douschebags in Europe and Canada, but in American culture arrogance is not only excepted but glorified. Thus we breed dicks on a pandemic level. I just don't want to be judged as such by my location of origin.

And how exotic is America? Isn't McDonalds and Disney everywhere now?

[Taxandrius]

the whole idea of not-american but anglo-saxon / germanic is a bit odd, since the mixture over time makes that part simply futile. Also, a lot of americans seem to be picky about their heritage, though they might have a different nationality in every line of the family, they seem to like to choose one and hail that as if they were some kind of hidden part of a dark and old group.But this is neither a rant, nor completely on topic

The Jante Law is, from what I experienced still moderately active in scandinavian societies, but not that it would be a silent and dead society in which nothing odd is accepted. Is it linked with the special position of the lands in history? Is it linked to the lutheran confession? Who knows, but it has its influence

[MortenJessen]

llHi there.
Your "research" seems to be very sporadically done. Scandinavia's third largest industry is tourism. WE ARE USED TO IT.......So if you plan to visit Denmark, come by and we will have a cup of coffee. Just do not come by looking like this:

M. Jessen

[Tiberios]

The Jante Law is, from what I experienced still moderately active in scandinavian societies, but not that it would be a silent and dead society in which nothing odd is accepted. Is it linked with the special position of the lands in history? Is it linked to the lutheran confession? Who knows, but it has its influence

This. I hate the Jante Law. When I experience it it's mostly when people envy or become jealous towards others and their successes and frankly I can't stand it.

[molonthegreat]

This. I hate the Jante Law. When I experience it it's mostly when people envy or become jealous towards others and their successes and frankly I can't stand it.

How are the major newspapers in Denmark? Since in Sweden they frankly stinks of the Jante law and extreme political correctness( They absolutely love to beat down on the "racist" Denmark) but I've got the impression that the situation is better in Denmark.

[MortenJessen]

Hi there.
No, the situation is not better in Denmark. The Danish papers loves to beat down on all the things we do better than you...But they have to admit that your girls are just plain gorgeous compared to ours
But generally Denmark is not so bad actually. The number of racist-labeled crimes in Denmark is lower than in Sweden, where the Nazis has begone to grow in popularity.
M. Jessen

[Ishoss]

I don't feel the Jante Law is too bad in Norway. If you work hard and become sucessful then people won't hate you for it. But there are some which aren't respected, but that got more to do with their comments, behaviour and so on. For example most people respect Kjell Inge Røkke, but don't have a lot of respect for Aleksander Rybak. (Most foreigners know him for his talent, we've gotten to know his lesser sides... Think the swedes are suffering most right now though, he's participating in Let's Dance over there)

We can have respect for a certain kind of sucesfull people, but also despise another kind. It depends on their character.

[MortenJessen]

Hi there.
To one end, the Jantelov is still alive, but only if you go around and talk dirt, go bragging or, most importantly, you play better than persons who has been less lucky in life than one self has been. So if one is an average tourist, one has no trouble at all.
That said, as one wrote earlier, do not come over here and act like an American, owning everyting. That might get you some laughs behind your back, or even right in your face.
M. Jessen

[Théoric HämmerHörde]

llHi there.
Your "research" seems to be very sporadically done. Scandinavia's third largest industry is tourism. WE ARE USED TO IT.......So if you plan to visit Denmark, come by and we will have a cup of coffee. Just do not come by looking like this:

M. Jessen

a hive of those things lives in the house next door to me
And the looming question: I'm a huuuge black metal fan. Wouldnt that attract some bad attention? Granted the most I might show of it is wear an occasional band tee, black jeans and boots. Even here in America I get the rep of a biker/metalhead/manly man type. How is that seen in nordic countries?

I have no interest in "bringing" anything new or different over there or trying to "spread America" or anything. I just want to explore without getting my ass kicked. For that matter, I don't want to see tourist garbage, I want to see real authentic culture.

[Ishoss]

Band tees are fine, but personally I have some problems with the whole outfit (jeans, long dark hair and so on). But I love band tees.

[Tiberios]

How are the major newspapers in Denmark? Since in Sweden they frankly stinks of the Jante law and extreme political correctness( They absolutely love to beat down on the "racist" Denmark) but I've got the impression that the situation is better in Denmark.

Well Danish newspapers tend to get involved in the mud slinging every time Denmar is critized by Swedes. Other than that, I the Jante Law is not that common in the newspapers anymore. It's still there though, but at a tolerable level. In the tabloids however, it's alive and well.

a hive of those things lives in the house next door to me
And the looming question: I'm a huuuge black metal fan. Wouldnt that attract some bad attention? Granted the most I might show of it is wear an occasional band tee, black jeans and boots. Even here in America I get the rep of a biker/metalhead/manly man type. How is that seen in nordic countries?

Wearing a band tee wouldn't cause any trouble at all.

[Adar]

I think the Jante law is quite dead and buried. I have however heard some funny stories about American tourists/guests always saying "We have that, but bigger" during their first days in Sweden. But they quickly learned that people might be interested in cultural similarities/differences, we do however not give a about the size of it.

But that is not specifically American, I have also encountered Germans doing the same thing (-It's like the cathedral in Köln, but the one in Köln is bigger and better looking. -Yes but our cathedral is 400 years old, I bet your cathedral actually is 50 years old).

a hive of those things lives in the house next door to me
And the looming question: I'm a huuuge black metal fan. Wouldnt that attract some bad attention? Granted the most I might show of it is wear an occasional band tee, black jeans and boots. Even here in America I get the rep of a biker/metalhead/manly man type. How is that seen in nordic countries?

I have no interest in "bringing" anything new or different over there or trying to "spread America" or anything. I just want to explore without getting my ass kicked. For that matter, I don't want to see tourist garbage, I want to see real authentic culture.

Metal is popular in Sweden and I have never heard of anyone getting into trouble due to it. I guess if you go to a really bad night club it might be possible to find someone taking offense but that's about it.

And how exotic is America? Isn't McDonalds and Disney everywhere now?

You also have Walmart and Wendys...

And if you want to avoid tourist areas. Read my advice here. That guy was heading for the tourist limbo of Sweden

[Théoric HämmerHörde]

You also have Walmart and Wendys...

Wendys is gooood. That was my lunch today. But walmart is cheap plastic crap. Basically the way walmart works is that for a period of one year, it will sell a brand name product at a low price and not make a lot of money. but in order for the brand to keep their product on walmart shelves, walmart demands the brand make verions of the same product within the walmart price constraints. therefor walmart items are usually total crap.
if you come to america and want good products, check out sears for general stuff and best buy for electronics.
As for fast food, Chic-fil-a is one of the best, or chipotle for [americanized versions of] mexican food.

[Påsan]

ADHERE TO THE JANTE LAW

You shuld know that it is still very ususal in Scandianvia, people (like me) like it, beacuse it eliminates any attemt for social flashyness and promotes social spirit rather than the achivement of the induvidual.

In America, yuo get rewarded for distingushed talents
In Scandinavia, you get punished for distinguishing yourself.

Its a part of culture, really.
(might be why once someone gets rich, we tax them the hell back to a normal level out of sheer malice)

"Look at Jensen got a new boat, that posh bastard"

HOW TO USE
– If you are the only one amongst your friends who managed to complete a degree at University, and your friends say: “Well, a degree sucks anyway” (they will), you could call this envious janteloven.

– When you decide not to go out to party but to read a philosophical essay instead to deepen the content of the article you are writing and your friends say that you are unsociable or that you are arrogant (they will), you could call their behaviour janteloven.


(btw, Denmark, the creator of the jante law are also the happiest place on earth)

[Théoric HämmerHörde]

So do exactly as others do?

[Armfelt]

It is applicable to smaller towns but in larger cities you can be as much of an individual as you want. However tasteless displays of wealth are (in my opinion rightfully) considered very tacky.