I smell hatred and noonsense here at the same time.
btw not all janisarry troops were muslims, some converted to Islam, other stayed in darkness. Its forbiden to convert with force. Man can only convert with his own hearth, not by the sword.
I smell hatred and noonsense here at the same time.
btw not all janisarry troops were muslims, some converted to Islam, other stayed in darkness. Its forbiden to convert with force. Man can only convert with his own hearth, not by the sword.
Last edited by Thinkerman; April 18, 2011 at 09:37 AM.
Proud Tsardoms: Total war Concept Artist.
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I've read a couple of threads here in Tsardoms and I've been impressed with the standard of research you have undertaken so I offer firstly my appreciation...
As for the greatest Ottoman defeats, I feel you have listed the four most prominent and important of the era. Ankara for me stands head and shoulders the rest due to the decisiveness of the defeat, and the instability it caused the Ottoman regime due to the fact that the empire became torn apart by civil war between Bayezid's sons. Although it gave breathing space to a Byzantine Empire, the Byzantines themselves and their Balkan neighbours seemed to weak to profit from the after effects of Ankara, with Stephen Lazar, Mircea and Manuel II Palaiologos content to play one of Bayezid's sons off against the other.
Last edited by Erebus Pasha; June 18, 2011 at 11:46 AM.
The funny was that the only one ho try to benefit from this situation was bulgarian emperor Konstantin II Asen and his cousin prince Frujin seeking the aid of Mircho of Wallachia .Although it gave breathing space to a Byzantine Empire, the Byzantines themselves and their Balkan neighbours seemed to weak to profit from the after effects of Ankara, with Stephen Lazar, Mircea and Manuel II Palaiologos content to play one of Bayezid's sons of against the other.
Yes indeed, in terms of impact on the Ottoman Empire Ankara would be top of the list in my oppinion aswell. Besides the obvious military disaster and the disgrace of having the sultan himself captured, that was probably the only moment when the Ottomans were weakened enough for their advance into Europe to be halted.
But as you said none of the Ottomans' enemies managed to take advantage of the situation. They were either too weak or possibly too worried of what would happen if they failed. Taking one side or another in the Ottoman civil war wouldn't bring too many results because who is to say that the brother you support won't turn against you once he has taken the power. In my oppinion only a coalition of states trying to push the Empire out of Europe would have worked at that point.
Oće li taj mod do kraja ove godine ili jok?
The greatest defeat the Ottomans endured was at the siege of Malta. It happened 35 years after the mod ending. In 1565 the Ottoman where at their greatest power under Sultan Suleiman. He ordered his generals to destroy the knights Hospitaliers once and for all. The ottoman army was composed of 6,000 Janisseries, reported as much as 20,000 man, Barbary pirates from the Barbary coast, 5,000, artillery men armed with all kind of fire weapons and cannons, about 500 heavy cannons some of them forged as soon as they landed, voluntiers about 5,000 more, sailors from the armada that brought them here, 3,000 more and fanatics circa 3,000 more. The Knights where not more than 300, all seasoned veterans and religeous fanatics, 500 troops mainly voluntiers fron Sicily and Italy some men that followed the Knights from Rhodes, 3,000 maltese citizens, men and women of all ages and childrean and most important the Maltese Christian Pirates known as Furbani, scourge of the Ottomans, they where the fighting force of the Knights raiding Ottoman shipping, maybe about 2,000.
It was a massive defeat for the Ottomans, due to a great mistake in logistics, they taught they could take the island in a few months, but the seige lasted longer. With no fresh water and lack of food, desease weakened the Ottomans. Their final blow came when one of their generals Dragut died. After much delay, becasuse every European nation was afraid to help the knights they send a small releve force known as Il Gran Soccorso, The Great Relieve. The Ottomans mistoke the fleet as much bigger than it was actually and fleed. They lost men to mulnutrition and enemy action, as much as 15,000 are belived to have died.
Cheers.
Malta is an disaster but there was more important battles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Nándorfehérvár
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Krujë_(1450)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Albulena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bileća
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vaslui
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Breadfield
Found many, but i think that these were one of most important...
Good summary on Ottoman defeats, even saying that gives me headache
Vaslui and Breadfield marks the late medieval defeats of Ottoman armies. However, until the Ottoman war machine show its weakness against their counterparts those defeats were only caused delays on advance not a milestone. They were something like Cannae or Trasimene defeats of Romans not Zarma of Carthage.
As long as the system works fine the defeats meant nothing that big. Ottoman army even after serious defeats like Malta or Lepanto able to replenish forces equip them and continue to fight. Just an example after defeat against Crusader fleet Ottomans built a navy from scratch, conquered Cyprus from Venince and retook Tunisia from the Spaniards. That's what i mean.
However when the european states modernize their armies under the guideness of military geniuses like De Cordoba of Spain, Mauritius of Dutch and Gustavus of Sweden the tide has turned. Professionalism and extensive use of firearms and disciplined ranks of seasoned soldiers opened a new era.
Cheers,
Last edited by Little Legionaire; September 16, 2011 at 09:49 AM. Reason: add info
I once read that the occasional enemy might wipe out a 50,000 man force, but unfortunately for said enemy, the Ottomans would raise another 50,000 by the next campaign season.
FREE THE NIPPLE!!!
Hahahaha what a Hollywood bulshit. What you think Ottoman warriors were levy millitia which numbered millions? They were the best in that time. Most of the victories they achived, they were outnumbered. In their prime, they were the most millitary and tacticaly advanced war machine with support of great zeal.
They weren't always outnumbered for starters. But the Ottomans did have a highly competent professional core - whether it was the Janissaries, the Household Cavalry or the artillery corps. These were augmented by provincial troops and auxiliaries. During it's initial advances in the Balkans the Ottomans didn't have massive sprawling armies at their disposal. To be fair opposing forces were relatively evenly matched, but by the 16th century the Ottomans could raise considerable forces for campaigns.
Yes they did have a very elite troops at their disposal beacuse of a very uniqe military school system. They were taking children from 7-14 year old by force, from muslim and non-muslim people in their empire, and only the best could finish that training, many children end up dead at that training. Those who were left remain, they were Janisaries, by some historians the best standing army troops in that time. And was like that until Ottomans stopt conquering, and modernising their economy, then sturts Ottoman downhill in their power, and many rebelions of Janisary troops beacuse they weren't properly paid...