Tribunus
How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
The Russians sold the Alaska colony to the USA for a song in 1867.
Does anyone here think the Cold War would go progress differently if the Soviets actually had a foothold in North America, and the means to attack mainland USA? Perhaps it would go hot?
And other scenarios, would Japan try to grab it after the Russo-Japanese War...a Japanese colony in America?
It's a conspiracy!
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Didn't the Russians sell it because it was indefensible and they knew that US would take it by war if they refuse to sell?
Petit Burgués
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Just as in the early 1920's the Entente intervened in favor of the Whites during the Civil War they would have done the same in Alaska. As soon as commies start rising up in Alaska thousands of American and Canadian troopers would have poured through the frontiers.
Under the Patronage of Maximinus Thrax
Dux Limitis
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Originally Posted by Trax
I think it was more of Russia needed money, they hadn't found any natural resources in Alaska ( i may be wrong on the resources part) So they decided to sell it to the US, which we gladly bought, but at the time was called "Sewards Icebox" They however stopped calling it that after we found gold and oil.
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Civitate
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Would've probably been the most militarised border on the planet. Had the war gone hot, western Canada and Alaska would've been wiped out by tactical nuclear weapons in the opening minutes.
Praefectus
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Russia and the US were friendly, in fact, during the American Civil War, Russian ships hunted Confederate convoys in the Atlantic.
It was the UK they thought would take it. Russia was no Mexico, and the USA no Germany.
It's a conspiracy!
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Edvard Radzinsky writes so in his biography of Alexander II.
That doesn't mean it's true though, he's not a real historian.
He says that it was indefensible and while the relations with US were good there were rumours that gold was discovered and the government in St Petersburg was worried that it might provoke an attack. So they decided that good relations are worth more than Alaska and sold it.
Praefectus
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Well given that the UK and Russia were many times, on the verge of war, even once fully at war, I think it is safe to assume it wasn't the US they were worried about. Did he specifically say the US? (The Russian navy of that day could have prevented the US from landing troops on Alaska anyway)
It's a conspiracy!
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Russians had any Navy to speak of on the Pacific?
Perhaps few frigates + couple of hundred men as garrison in Alaska.
All America or UK had to do was simply move in and it would have been a fait accompli, there's nothing the Russians could have done about it.
Praefectus
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
At the beginning of the Russo-Japanese war, 1905, the Russian Pacific Fleet consisted of 7 battleships 8 cruisers, 13 torpedo boats and 2 gunboats. This is the only remotely relevant information I can find, but keep in mind that the Suez Canal was not yet built (it would be an effort solely by the US Pacific Fleet), the Crimean war was within living memory and the US was only occasionally taking part in great power politics.
I think it is safe to assume it was the UK the Russians were worrying about regarding Alaska.
Saviors of the Japanese
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Why would the US go through the Suez Canal? We were able to move ships quite successfully from the Atlantic to Mediterranean during the Mexican War and the Civil War.
“The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”
—Sir William Francis Butler
Ducenarius
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
That's because theirs no land mass in between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic, to get from the Atlantic coast of America to Alaska on the Pacific before the Panama Canal or Suez Canal you have to either pass around Africa, through the Indian Ocean, the East Indies, across the Pacific up to Alaska, a hube distance. The alternative is down along the coast of South America, around its southern tip and then up along its west coast and the North Americas West coast up to Alaska, another incredible long voyage and to do it you have to pass through the icy straights of Magellan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Magellan
And then even after the Suez canal was finished in 1869 you can only cut out the trip around Africa. The Panama canal wasn' finished until 1914 and you can quickly and easily traval between the Pacific and Atlantic.
Saviors of the Japanese
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
, I meant Pacific not Mediterranean. No idea where Mediterranean came from, don't even think we sent ships there during the Mexican War or Civil War.
For example the USS Hartford which made it from Indonesia to Philadelphia in only about 2 months...
“The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”
—Sir William Francis Butler
It's a conspiracy!
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
Which is rather irrelevant concerning the situation in 1867.At the beginning of the Russo-Japanese war, 1905, the Russian Pacific Fleet consisted of 7 battleships 8 cruisers, 13 torpedo boats and 2 gunboats.
In Crimean War the Russians only had a couple of frigates in the Pacific and pretty much tried to hide them from the enemy.
Praefectus
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
My bad, I meant the Panama canal.
That's because they would have been conclusively destroyed by the mightiest navy of the time by far. The Pacific fleet wouldn't have even been a road-bump.
Now regarding the Russian Pacific Fleet, the acquisition of Vladivostok from the Chinese (1858) was accompanied by a substantial increase in the number of ships kept in the Pacific (redeployed from the Baltic Fleet, I believe), to ward off the newfound naval 'competitor' they found in the Chinese.
As it was the American navy was however, a far cry from the British navy, nor are we operating on a specific time (Unless you would care to provide one?) I am not saying the Russians could protect Alaska from the Brits, I am saying they could plausibly protect it from the Americans.
Supposing they had a President who had caught syphillis and wanted to alienate a country which was both powerful and all too willing to be a friend, just so they could have what was at the time seen as an "icebox".
Last edited by Pious Agnost; April 11, 2011 at 11:27 PM.
Praeses
Re: How different would the Cold War progress if the Russians kept Alaska?
I belive that if the Czar hadn't sold Alaska the Americans(or Brits) would get it in another way, or there would be a rump Czarist state in Alaska, creating a Taiwan-like situation.
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