Shogun 2 Realism (S2R)

[jinandjuice]

Also, I can't seem to uninstall this mod without messing up my game entirely. I had placed S2R_unit_stats_v0325.xlsx and S2R_v0331.pack into my Shogun 2/data folder, and only those 2 files, and now when I remove the 2 and try to play a custom game on vanilla, I get a CTD.

Anyone have a solution?

[raistlinmajere8]

Verify your game cache in Steam. Might do it.

[Blizzard]

Hey there Realism team, I've only recently heard about you, but I enjoy how you've tried to revamp Napoleon and Shogun 2 in a more historical way. I've just played a few custom battles with your mod, and I have some opinions to share:

First, I really enjoy how the Ashigaru is focused more; levies are the way to go! However, you have decreased the numbers per unit of more professional units, as well as limit their unit capacity per army. This is a nice gesture to indicate how rare they were on the battlefield, but as a result of giving, say, the Yari Samurai only 80 men compared to the Ashigaru's 240, the Samurai's small numbers make them extremely to use effectively without suffering incredible casualties. These men cost 700, but can only hold against a 220 cost Yari Ashigaru while taking 50% casualty rates. Likewise, they get annihilated by even light cavalry, being unable to on their own. With every other non-Ashigaru foot troop, they take unbearable casualties (>70%) when engaged, even when deployed effectively in the flanks or rear. Plus, with their ineffectively small numbers, No-Dachi cannot even destroy the enemy's flanks as quickly as Loan Sword Ashigaru can. The same goes with Samurai Archers: they simply cannot outmatch a Bow Ashigaru's full 240 arrows per volley, no matter how much more accurate or powerful the Samurai may be. Hence, the troop numbers make all elite foot units completely impractical on the battlefield, regardless of how high their morale and defense are.

That said, if we look at how other mods have implemented professional units to levies, we see in Europa Barbarorurm for RTW that units with the fewest numbers per unit, e.g. Hypaspistai, elite Macedonian Hoplites, have 120 troops per unit, compared to a common levy spearmen of 240. But these elite unit types are rare, and most semi-professional to professional units had 160 to 200. The same applied with Broken Crescent for M2TW, where Pelekyphoroi Axemen (local Varangian Guards), have 75 troops compared to common levy spearmen's 150. These men are rare, and most semi-professional to professional units had 100 to 120. I think this is because numbers that are <1/2 of largest troop numbers are simply ineffective regardless of their individual capability. Therefore, may I suggest a similar, more practical way of approaching professional unit types, where we restore the Samurai units' numbers per unit to up to 160 to 200, maybe 120 at the lowest for the most elite. This way, 4 units of Samurai or Monks can actually compose of a rear line, and fight off cavalry and infantry without taking massive casualties, while a unit of Samurai archers accompanying 3 Ashigaru archers would actually be more effective during the missile skirmish instead of a burden. The game would be more balanced, while the historical feel would be kept due to recruitment limitations.

I'm really looking forward to this mod being one of the best of Shogun 2, and I'll be sure to continue following you guys. Good luck!

You might find it unreal because you attempt to use only samurai composed armies. In reality, they're very effective in complementing the main army body - the ashigaru. Despite what you say I find no dachi very effective as shock force as long they're not asked to hold the line and perform outside their purpose. Their reduced number makes them (at least in my case -i play with modified unit multiplier so my ashigaru unit is 450 men) very mobile and effective in completing the gaps or the lines that threaten to break, and no-dachi in particular effectively swallow entire units already weakened or tired by combat if used in flanking maneuvers. The mod, as it is now is very balanced in the field except maybe ashigaru archer's lethality. Flaming arrows should be available only in sieges or when defending from fortified positions since they require certain conditions, there's no way an unit should be able to fire them after repositioning in the field.

[Blizzard]

Also, I can't seem to uninstall this mod without messing up my game entirely. I had placed S2R_unit_stats_v0325.xlsx and S2R_v0331.pack into my Shogun 2/data folder, and only those 2 files, and now when I remove the 2 and try to play a custom game on vanilla, I get a CTD.

Anyone have a solution?

You only need to place the .pack in your data folder. The stats file is solely informative. If you want to uninstall you only have to delete S2R_v0331.pack.

[jinandjuice]

You might find it unreal because you attempt to use only samurai composed armies.

My standard army composition is 4 Yari Ashigaru, 5 Loan Sword Ashigaru, 4 Bow Ashigaru, 2 Yari Samurai, 2 No Dachi, and 2 light cavalry. Yari Ashigaru will compose the first line, while Sword Ashigaru will fill the lines, add to the pushing power or perform flanking maneuvers. I usually position my Samurai at the rear flanks, ready to flank or counter-flank the enemy. The Samurai are barely capable of holding the flanks on their own.

And I have removed both files from \data, where only the vanilla files should remain. I still experience CTD's when I click on Custom Battle.

[Blizzard]

My standard army composition is 4 Yari Ashigaru, 5 Loan Sword Ashigaru, 4 Bow Ashigaru, 2 Yari Samurai, 2 No Dachi, and 2 light cavalry. I usually position my Samurai at the rear flanks, ready to flank or counter-flank the enemy.

And I have removed both files from \data, where only the vanilla files should remain. I still experience CTD's when I click on Custom Battle.

Cleared the cache like the post above mentions?

Have any other mods installed? User scripts left active?

Loans swords is a sort of compromise unit until other shock units are available. If you use them to hold a line they'll break. Also use the Yari in guard mode since they try to hold their formation that way.

[jinandjuice]

Cleared the cache like the post above mentions?

Have any other mods installed? User scripts left active?

Loans swords is a sort of compromise unit until other shock units are available. If you use them to hold a line they'll break. Also use the Yari in guard mode since they try to hold their formation that way.

Cache is taking forever to verify, but I have no other mods installed, no scripts, no mod files under appdata\...\scripts.

And with all due respect, Blizzard, I think you may be missing my point. I was not questioning the capabilities of the Ashigaru, as I find them quite useful. I am questioning the capabilities of the more professional units, e.g. Samurai and Monks, as their low numbers undermine their value and effectiveness in functioning independently, not just filling in the ranks.

[Blizzard]

Cache is taking forever to verify, but I have no other mods installed, no scripts, no mod files under appdata\...\scripts.

And with all due respect, Blizzard, I think you may be missing my point. I was not questioning the capabilities of the Ashigaru, as I find them quite useful. I am questioning the capabilities of the more professional units, e.g. Samurai and Monks, as their low numbers undermine their value and effectiveness in functioning independently, not just filling in the ranks.

Make sure you have no previous .pack from older mods versions left in the data folder.

The numbers in the mod reflect the reality of the time. Main army body were ashigaru armed with Yari or Naginata; loan swords appeared when ashigaru became a lower caste soldier. Using a sword requires a lot of training. Maybe you should question the capabilities of loan sword ashigaru, you shouldn't have 5 of those in your army, 2 at best. The others 4 or three should be Yari or Naginata ashigaru.

[jinandjuice]

I have no mod packs under \data.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you on the rarity of Samurai professionals. What I'm saying here is that the small numbers are preventing the Samurai units from being effective entirely. I would much rather occupy a unit slot with a Yari Ashigaru than a Yari Samurai, because the Ashigaru are simply more cost effective. What I recommend is not to make the samurai more recruitable; in fact, I enjoy their rarity, but to pretty much merge 2 80-men units into 1, while halving the army capacity of samurai and maybe even increasing the cost, because its just too cost-ineffective and a waste to occupy one unit slot with a samurai.

[Agostinos]

I have no mod packs under \data.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you on the rarity of Samurai professionals. What I'm saying here is that the small numbers are preventing the Samurai units from being effective entirely. I would much rather occupy a unit slot with a Yari Ashigaru than a Yari Samurai, because the Ashigaru are simply more cost effective. What I recommend is not to make the samurai more recruitable; in fact, I enjoy their rarity, but to pretty much merge 2 80-men units into 1, while halving the army capacity of samurai and maybe even increasing the cost, because its just too cost-ineffective and a waste to occupy one unit slot with a samurai.

Thanks for your feedback. Please consider that unit stats and costs are still WIP. You can always expect changes regarding this issue if we feel that changes need to be done

[Blizzard]

I have no mod packs under \data.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you on the rarity of Samurai professionals. What I'm saying here is that the small numbers are preventing the Samurai units from being effective entirely. I would much rather occupy a unit slot with a Yari Ashigaru than a Yari Samurai, because the Ashigaru are simply more cost effective. What I recommend is not to make the samurai more recruitable; in fact, I enjoy their rarity, but to pretty much merge 2 80-men units into 1, while halving the army capacity of samurai and maybe even increasing the cost, because its just too cost-ineffective and a waste to occupy one unit slot with a samurai.

Ashigaru were in the first place number effective, to train a samurai required a lifetime and in a period of continuous war they weren't easily replaced.

Perhaps I find it balanced with my current unit settings since they (each one of them) can do more damage until they rout and the huge mass of spearmen takes some time to rotate when flanked; haven't seen yet any of them able to withstand a flanking maneuver by themselves, the formation breaks. There is the archer downside though, try facing a veil of 250-300 arrows, even if ashigaru.

[jinandjuice]

Thanks Agostinos, I'll be looking forward to it!

[Blizzard]

Thanks for your feedback. Please consider that unit stats and costs are still WIP. You can always expect changes regarding this issue if we feel that changes need to be done

Have you considered increasing the range for samurai and monk archers and descreasing it, along with the accuracy, for ashigaru? It should follow the same quality-quantity percent you used in calculating armor/damage stats.

[Alma69]

yeah, 100 samurais in a unit sounds good

[Agostinos]

Have you considered increasing the range for samurai and monk archers and descreasing it, along with the accuracy, for ashigaru? It should follow the same quality-quantity percent you used in calculating armor/damage stats.

You can expect changes regarding the range and damage of bows for all archers soon, since the new PFM can handle the according tables.

[St. Cyr]

Agostinos is the man.

Also with archers we are limiting their recruitment to archer dojos and editing the AI's army composition preferences. In the latest internal betas you no longer see the All-archer stack of doom. Very nice.

[Dagda]

Overall im enjoying this mod much more than the other compilations out there.

This is probably a vanilla thing, but the AI completely fails at developing their cities/economy for the most part. I almost feel like I have to expand early as possible just to save those cities from the incompetent AI. For example Musashi. IN the hands of the average player you'll easily grow its wealth over 3000 while the AI will be pushing down towards 1000 which is sad.

[Ultraman]

Overall im enjoying this mod much more than the other compilations out there.

This is probably a vanilla thing, but the AI completely fails at developing their cities/economy for the most part. I almost feel like I have to expand early as possible just to save those cities from the incompetent AI. For example Musashi. IN the hands of the average player you'll easily grow its wealth over 3000 while the AI will be pushing down towards 1000 which is sad.

I haven't time to try it, but have you considered trying the Universal AI mod?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=440700

Haven't seen if anyone's tried it with Realism yet.

[Capricornius]

Odd occurence (using this mod)

I was playing as the Chosokabe and was fighting the Sogo clan. I got them down to one province soon enough and as my main force besieged their last stronghold, I saw that their garrison consisted of 12 Yari Samurai. (keep in mind this is 15-20 turns into the game and no way could they have recruited that many samurai in less than 2 turns). Since samurai are very powerful I knew i was in for a fest.

An army I was chasing down had entered this settlement prior to besieging, but it was composed of 7 yumi ashigaru, 2 yari samurai, and then the rest was a daiymo and yari ashigaru.

To me it appeared as if their entire army had somehow converted to samurai units.

And now the good part

As I was besieging their castle, out of NOWHERE a ship lands on the coast and deposits a full stack of another clan's army, which it immediately used to attack the castle I was besieging. So not only was my full stack fighting the sogo clan, I was being aided by another clan's army whom I've never encountered before.

The battle that ensued was a massacre. My ally on the field of battle sent all his troops in by climbing walls, while his archers launched arrows from outside the castle. I sat back with my main force and watched. His entire army was routed in 5 minutes (thanks to the Yari Samurai) and 99% were cut down. Some sogo archers sallied outside the castle to fight my ally's archers. Needless to say, he lost.

Now it was my turn. I sent troops to each gate (to avoid climbing casualties) and proceeded to enter the gates. However, the god-like Yari Samurai bottle necked my entire force at the gates, cutting them down at routing them. Since I had another army in reserve, more troops entered the battlefield. Using these men I managed to break through and bum rushed to the command point at the castle. For 3 nail biting minutes my force barely managed to capture the castle. We won...but of the 6000 troops attacking the castle, only 500 made it alive.

Excellent mod but it's very difficult when the AI has an army with 80% samurai.

[Yuko]

i actually have the same problem with custom battles crashing after unistalling S2R.