Dishonoring treaties

[pravania]

I'm getting real sick of having other clans declare war on me or brake alliances or trade agreements and the -50 dishonoring treaties get put against my clan!

What the hell is up with this, it should go on the clan that actually is dishonoring treaties not the clans that are getting dishonored!

[Koolhan37]

Agreed. I haven't dishonored a single alliance or trade treaty, except when forced to after somebody declares war on me, yet I'm getting -40, -50, and now -63 in relations for "dishonored treaties". This is getting ridiculous.

[Abe86]

Agreed, this isone of the more important bugs that should be fixed quickly.

[aeoleron9]

I agree the dishonour treaties thing is really arbitrary. Can someone explain how it is triggered?

One thing tho. In this game the relation reflect feelings on both sides, so if the AI does something hostile it will reflect on the relations too. For example one of my vassals had the gall to try convert my agent with his monk, he failed and our relation took a hit because of it.

[Raimeken]

Breaking alliances with your vassals because you don't want to lose the friendship of a major faction is one of the biggies, I've had to do it twice, -30 for me

[Krenshaw]

In this game the relation reflect feelings on both sides, so if the AI does something hostile it will reflect on the relations too. For example one of my vassals had the gall to try convert my agent with his monk, he failed and our relation took a hit because of it.

I believe you hit the mark right there. Makes sense in a way as relations between both parties will sour if you have just been backstabbed by an ally or they broke their promise.

Must be CA's method of creating 'diplomatic tension' after a diplomatic blow-up

[Bylandt]

Breaking alliances with your vassals because you don't want to lose the friendship of a major faction is one of the biggies, I've had to do it twice, -30 for me

I got -50 just for declaring war on a nation with whom I had nothing more than a trade agreement. It doesn't help if I break the trade agreement earlier. Annoying!

[Bylandt]

I believe you hit the mark right there. Makes sense in a way as relations between both parties will sour if you have just been backstabbed by an ally or they broke their promise.

Must be CA's method of creating 'diplomatic tension' after a diplomatic blow-up

That would be a sensible explanation if only the relation with the nation that dishonoured the treaty would be hurt. But in fact, YOU are seen as the one who broke his word by all other nations and your reputation suffers accordingly.

So it's definitely a bug.

[zowrath]

Diplomacy system is totally messed up. Oda is my vassal. Hattori declares war on Oda, and I defend it. Valiantly against three 60% full stacks. What do I get in return? Unreliable Ally negative score. I have a trade agreement with Takeda. Uesugi sweep in and takes a province from Takeda and breaking the trade lane. What happens? I get a negative score for breaking Trade Agreement. Date begged me for a Trade Agreement. Some turns later they break it, and no ports or trade lanes are being blockaded. What happens? Same thing, I get a negative hit for breaking the Trade Agreement.

I could go on, and on. I think they are aware of this though, and a similar thing happened when ETW was released. It was fixed in one of the first patches, back then. So I'm holding out hope for an upcoming patch. In the meantime one just has to deal with it as it is.

EDIT: I keep getting Unreliable Ally seemingly at random with my vassals, this is just weird. I defend them with all my honour. Hadn't it been for me they'd be wiped out long time ago.

[Slaists]

It seems like a pattern. These triggers came out broken for MTW 2, ETW, and now Shogun 2. It took CA some year and a half to fix diplomatic triggers for ETW. So, there is our time estimate for a patch to fix the diplomatic side of the game...

and agreed, the current system is ridiculous. The player gets hit for things that the AIs do to each other...

[Nerouin]

I've had the same issue. As the Shimazu, I declared war on the clan to the north of me. Bam. A -40 for dishonoring treaties. Now most factions disliked me. I later declared war on the Ouchi. I had no treaties with them; indeed, my only diplomacy with them at any stage was of a short-term military access treaty that had expired some time before. Bam. Another -40. Now every faction hated me and none would trade with me.

I stopped playing a week ago because of this gamebreaking bug. I won't play again it is fixed. I have no interest in playing a game in which every other faction hates me for no reason, and I don't have any wish to become an apologist for CA as to why this bug may even make the slightest bit of realistic sense. This is a bug, nothing else, and it has a hugely detrimental effect upon the game, and CA should be working to fix it now; not after breakfast, not after CSI---NOW. There's no excuse for them to be doing anything but.

I'm pretty ticked about it, to be honest. I have been playing CA games since the original Shogun. I was big into the modding community in RTW, spending quite a bit of time on Rome: Total Realism. Ever since working on that game, I've been aware of how lazy Creative Assembly is, how often they cut corners, how rarely they ever go the extra mile, how little they care about their community, and how awful they are at supporting their games. I didn't buy M2TW until far after release for this reason (and, predictably, it had even more issues than did RTW). I bought the disaster that was Empire about four months after release for $25. Even at that stage, it had constant CTDs and the battle AI was inexcusably infantile. The ship battles, such a touted addition to the series, were awful, as the individual ship AI did not work properly and all ships had to be babysat as a result. I never had a whit of interest in buying Napoleon, as a result of all of the above.

I did a lot of research before buying Shogun. I interviewed numerous friends about the game, and read through a bunch of online reviews. Then I bought the game and found this bug. Not only has CA completely failed to acknowledge it on the totalwar.com forums, despite numerous threads about it--note, too, that they've acknowledged many bugs, all of them minor--but they've taken their sweet time in releasing a patch for any of the bugs and general issues included in the release version of the game. Meanwhile, companies like Relic and even--GASP!!!--Electronic Arts frequently release patches within days of game release to fix bugs that have become evident to players upon purchase. That so many games are now integrated into Steam makes the release of patches extremely easy, as Steam will automatically download the fixes and install them. S2TW is completely integrated into Steam. Yet we've seen nothing.

Many of us old TW fans--or even those only playing since the time of Empire--liked to think that CA had improved, had begun to care about the community, had made strides to make their games more complete. Apparently this is incorrect. **** you, CA.

[Bylandt]

In my current game, I have a -175 penalty with the Takeda for "dishonouring treaties". I haven't dishonoured any treaty in the game, ceretainly not with the Takeda. I have no idea what I'm supposed to have done to them.

They are by far my most important trading partner in my game but they keep cancelling our trade agreements. This is becoming a game breaker.

Please fix this, CA. This REALLY is the worst bug.

[zowrath]

I've quadruple checked, and every time the AI does something negative towards me I get hit with the penalty. Easy way to check this is if an agent of theirs does an unsuccessful action towards you reload the auto-save and check your standing but do not touch anything else, then press end turn again and the same events are likely to happen again. You'll pretty much see that after the AI's tried to done its work, you'll be standing there with the -50 in your hand.

I'm still holding out hope that CA is on top of this though, and that the next patch that addresses single-player will fix this.

[Anjin-San]

This is plain stupid. The explanation that the player takes the hit when the ai is aggressive is valid, but the thing in itself is stupid. I as a player dislike a faction anayways if it acts against me, they need not calculate it twice by making the relation between the clan and me suffer. Fix please.

[Righteous Fury]

Here is my post from another thread discussing the same as here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Actually, have been playing as Date, and have noticed everything mentioned here. Why am I being penalized when I am not the one breaking Trade Agreements and Alliances? Had alliance with Uesugi, had lasted for about a decade, along with Trade Agreement. All of a sudden, they break the alliance, for what seems to be no reason. I was not at war with any of there other allies, in fact, I wasn't at war! AI did this 3 seasons in a row, as I kept re-sealing the alliance. Come the 4th season, Uesugi did it again, and didn't bother (was costing me A LOT of money). However, after ending my turn, Uesugi comes to ME and asks ME to ally with THEM?!?!?!! Also, even though they broke the Alliance all 3 times, and I have not broken any Alliances or Treaties, I still got dinged for Breaking Treaties, -25 with every clan still in the game. Uesugi got the same penalty, but why? Should his not be triple what mine is? Why was I penalized in the first place? I didn't "Break the Treaty", they did... 3 times IN A ROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...96#post9314996

[Col]

This bug is very infuriating.