Way to beat the Black Ship

[sillyfrenchman]

I heard about the problems people have been having getting the black ship early in the game.

Still on my first campaign on normal with Shimazu, but this is what I've found:

I sent 2 medium bunes and 3 bow kobayas against it and auto-resolved. Lost badly and two of my tattered ships limped away. Then, since the ship was near my trade node, I mobbed it with 10 trade ships. The "advantage slider" thingy that shows the balance of forces was nearly all yellow, 90% to me. Auto-resolved and only lost a few archers with almost no damage. It seems the Black Ship can be won easily by attrition.

Just to test this, I reloaded and added 5 trade ships to the initial fleet I sent, so a 10 ship stack with 5 trade, 2 medium bunes, and 3 bow kobayas. They got destroyed. Sent in the remaining 5 trade ships, they got destroyed too.

It seems a handful of cheap battle ships and then a mob of trade ships over 2 attacks in the same turn works really well. Got the black ship and only lost 3 very cheap vessels.

edit: oops maybe this should be moved to "Strategy"

[Jom]

Moved.

[Jack-El]

I suspect that your usage of auto-resolve was a huge advantage here. In my experience with Nanban Ships, they suffer far more damage in auto-resolve than they would in a real battle. This allows attrition to take its toll and lets you capture an easy prize.

[-iceblade^]

once you have it, how much is its upkeep and does anyone have pics of it on the battle map?

[sillyfrenchman]

once you have it, how much is its upkeep and does anyone have pics of it on the battle map?

1200 a turn. But it's so worth it if you can afford it lol. It can easily defeat many Japanese ships by itself. Give it a few escorts to keep it from being bogged down against full stacks...

Arrows just bounce off its hull and with 360 men, who cares? I think I'll solo the Hojo navy next.

[Zhayedan]

capturing the black ship with auto resolve? there's no way you can capture it that way if you're playing the very hard level
i attacked it with 30 medium bunes and no way i could capture it. i would lose at least 9 ships just to kill that bastard
in the end i lost 7 medium bunes to capture it manually. level: very hard - turn 50

[johannlo]

anyone tried hitting it with swarms of fire arrow bows?

[IGdood]

I just hit it with 3 Heavy BUnes, numerous medium bunes and countless bow kobayas. The key is this. Sacrifice a kobaya to take a cannon broadside. Then board repeatedly with bunes. Being boarded means the Black Ship's crew is busy, and won't be able to fire their cannons. Keep on boarding, don't let the Black Ship crew reload. In the meanwhile, just keep on shooting.

[DannyTh3Man]

I heard about the problems people have been having getting the black ship early in the game.

Still on my first campaign on normal with Shimazu, but this is what I've found:

I sent 2 medium bunes and 3 bow kobayas against it and auto-resolved. Lost badly and two of my tattered ships limped away. Then, since the ship was near my trade node, I mobbed it with 10 trade ships. The "advantage slider" thingy that shows the balance of forces was nearly all yellow, 90% to me. Auto-resolved and only lost a few archers with almost no damage. It seems the Black Ship can be won easily by attrition.

Just to test this, I reloaded and added 5 trade ships to the initial fleet I sent, so a 10 ship stack with 5 trade, 2 medium bunes, and 3 bow kobayas. They got destroyed. Sent in the remaining 5 trade ships, they got destroyed too.

It seems a handful of cheap battle ships and then a mob of trade ships over 2 attacks in the same turn works really well. Got the black ship and only lost 3 very cheap vessels.

edit: oops maybe this should be moved to "Strategy"

I used 1 nanban trade ship and crossed it's "T"
As in I kept my cannons facing his broadside the entire time

[kronpas]

capturing the black ship with auto resolve? there's no way you can capture it that way if you're playing the very hard level
i attacked it with 30 medium bunes and no way i could capture it. i would lose at least 9 ships just to kill that bastard
in the end i lost 7 medium bunes to capture it manually. level: very hard - turn 50

I captured it with auto resolve, took like one and a half stack in legendary, lost 6-7 in process (all naval battles auto resolved ).

[E.K]

I found the best way to win was with numbers. It took me a stack of medium bune's but I eventually got it. It's definantly worth the frustration

[Goem]

Swarming it works for sure, i went medium bunes and fire arrows and just hammered at it while trying to get it grappled into melee

[General Malaise]

My, my all this autoresolving. Truly a shamefur dispray.

The best way to actually beat it, in my opinion, is simply use junk ships (asian maritime pun intended) to keep it busy while you use Fire Bomb Kobaya to get in close and, preferably, drop some mines it will sail over or, less preferably but nearly effectively, toss explosives onto the ship. The former method it will almost always instantly surrender and with the latter, with some luck it will catch fire quickly and then it's just a matter of time before it surrenders in that case too as well. Of course, it will return more volleys until it does but it's the best way to do I think.

[johannlo]

What is this mystical black ship? Is this the 'european traders' faction and their mysterious ship that circles the islands never doing anything?
Shimazu campaign around 1560, haven't noticed any 'black ship' popups.... and I have a very expensive battlefleet idling lol

[bobtheubilder]

yeah that's the one, it destroys everything it points its guns at. Autoresolving the battle was the easiest for me, that ship seems awful in autoresolve.

[johannlo]

well its come and gone it seems didn't do diddly just circled japan a bit then nothing lol

[E.K]

If you can capture it you are unbeateable at sea.

[Tr0tskY]

another black ship will turn up if you take out the first one. There is always oppurtunity to get another one, although once you have nanban trade ships I don't really see the point as the equivalent upkeep cost means you can easily field about 4 Nanban Trade ships which will absolutely decimate a Black Ship should they come up against it. I find with a bit of maneouvering, it is impossible to lose a battle against the AI with Nanban Trade ships, just keep moving away, use the wind, circle the opponent and keep firing. Anything that gets too close is torn apart by Matchlock units onboard anyway.

[SupAll]

another black ship will turn up if you take out the first one. There is always oppurtunity to get another one, although once you have nanban trade ships I don't really see the point as the equivalent upkeep cost means you can easily field about 4 Nanban Trade ships which will absolutely decimate a Black Ship should they come up against it. I find with a bit of maneouvering, it is impossible to lose a battle against the AI with Nanban Trade ships, just keep moving away, use the wind, circle the opponent and keep firing. Anything that gets too close is torn apart by Matchlock units onboard anyway.

Not really. The Nanbans may be cheaper, but even at 4v1, the Black Ship can come out on top simply because its reload, range, and # of guns are far higher. It also has a crew that is more capable of melee than the Nanbans.

[.Mitch.]

Not really. The Nanbans may be cheaper, but even at 4v1, the Black Ship can come out on top simply because its reload, range, and # of guns are far higher. It also has a crew that is more capable of melee than the Nanbans.

4 Nanban trade ships will never lose to 1 Black Ship....

Your talking 1600 cumalitve hull strength against 600, 1280 crew against 330. Plus both ship types have the same morale, same reloading skill, same accuracy. Both ships have 100 melee capable marines, so your point that the Black ship is more capable in melee is wrong too..

Do you not have the game?