Thread: - The Tavern -

  1. #8901
    vikior's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Posts
    495

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Hello, my dear friends!

    In the endless vastness of TWC, I've found a little something that could be a nice occupation until RO or IBFD are released.
    It's a standalone mod based off the Medieval II Italian masterpiece (DBM), known as Imperium Romanum - Roman Civil War

    It covers all major Roman Civil Wars from Marius vs Sulla to the Crisis of the Third Century. IMO, it's a nice little mod. If you have Med II kingdoms and some free time, you should give it a shot. It's got great scenarios, great scripts and great role play or AAR potential.
    For me, it's not something that I would invest months into such as a SAI campaign, but it's one of those fun little things that you can have fun with and make time go just a little bit faster.
    Some scenarios, naturally, are more difficult than others, but that's the beauty of it. I can't describe to you the feeling you get when you pick the Gordian/Senate faction in the "Maximinus Thrax" scenario and see that, in all your many provinces, you have maybe 4-5 legions, far in the east. Then, you lift the fog of war and see that Maximinus has 5 legions in Illyricum alone!

  2. #8902
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Quote Originally Posted by vikior View Post
    Hello, my dear friends!

    In the endless vastness of TWC, I've found a little something that could be a nice occupation until RO or IBFD are released.
    It's a standalone mod based off the Medieval II Italian masterpiece (DBM), known as Imperium Romanum - Roman Civil War

    It covers all major Roman Civil Wars from Marius vs Sulla to the Crisis of the Third Century. IMO, it's a nice little mod. If you have Med II kingdoms and some free time, you should give it a shot. It's got great scenarios, great scripts and great role play or AAR potential.
    For me, it's not something that I would invest months into such as a SAI campaign, but it's one of those fun little things that you can have fun with and make time go just a little bit faster.
    Some scenarios, naturally, are more difficult than others, but that's the beauty of it. I can't describe to you the feeling you get when you pick the Gordian/Senate faction in the "Maximinus Thrax" scenario and see that, in all your many provinces, you have maybe 4-5 legions, far in the east. Then, you lift the fog of war and see that Maximinus has 5 legions in Illyricum alone!
    Intreresting! Sadly I live in one of those countries in which Filefront (= ing bastards) doesn't work so, .. ti saluto "Imperium Romanum"!

  3. #8903

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Well that sucks lol.

    Edit: By the way have you guys seen this film before?

    Last edited by First Citizen Gallienus; May 12, 2015 at 10:14 AM.


    IB:Restitutor Orbis Signature courtesy of Joar.

  4. #8904
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Interesting! The movie is in Latin! Bravi!

    .. but, but, but .. a senator MUST know how the toga MUST be worn!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    "

    Drape the left- hand end over the left shoulder
    Fold the right hand end over in the middle, gather it into a roll and throw it over the left shoulder.
    The rest of the right- hand piece is folded and thrown over the left shoulder.
    A part of the left- land piece is pulled up and tucked into the belt."
    Actually it's a matter (falsely easy) of folds (the right amount) and .. class (the right amount).

  5. #8905

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Hey people of Rome! Did you see this marvelous submod posted recently for MTWII made by KEA (a god among the mortals)? Because it´s the dream made reality for all the lovers of Roman Civil Wars:

    Link: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ased-on-DBM%29

    Made by KEA

    Imperium Romanum
    The Roman Civil War Mod
    (based on DBM)

    Introduction
    This mod is a standalone version of DBM. It features 14 scenarios ranging from 88 BC to 275 AD:



    01: Marius vs. Sulla
    02: Pompey the Great
    03: The First Triumvirate
    04: Caesar vs. Pompey
    05: Veni Vidi Vici
    06: The Triumvirs vs. the Liberators
    07: The Second Triumvirate
    08: Octavian vs. Antony
    09: The Year of the Four Emperors
    10: The Year of the Five Emperors
    11: The Year of the Six Emperors
    12: Philippus vs. Decius
    13: The Year of the Three Emperors
    14: The Crisis of the Third Century


    Time Frame, Periods and Factions
    Each scenario covers only a short period in history, sometimes just a year. The time-scale is 12 turns per year, so time is limited. The time frame is broken up into 3 ‘Periods’. Period 1 covers the scenarios 1 and 2, Period 2 the scenarios 2 to 8, and Period 3 the following scenarios. The Periods define things like city development, Romanization, and most importantly recruitment. The major change is from Period 2 to Period 3 (‘Post-Augustan’). In the early Periods your Auxilia are local units, which gives you a broader range of units but also causes logistical problems (you cannot retrain “German Auxilia” in Egypt for example). In Period 3 your Auxilia is uniform, what allows you to recruit and to retrain them in every corner of the Empire, but also limit your choices in light infantry and cavalry.

    In a scenario there are Major Factions and Minor Factions. Only Major Factions are playable. These are usually the Roman civil war factions plus occasional foreign factions that play a key role, for example Parthia in Scenario 03. But in general, is this a Roman-centered mod, so don’t expect too much foreign factions to be playable. Minor Factions are not playable factions. These represent lesser states that did play some role in the Roman conflict, for example as Roman allies, as victims to Roman expansions, or as a nuisance you have to deal with.



    up to five playable Roman factions!


    Factional Moral and Dissolution
    Each faction has a certain “Factional Moral Index”. The starting moral is defined by the script of the respective scenario and is usually ranging around 100. A faction can gain or lose moral when winning or losing battles, upon the destruction of armies, when provinces are conquered or lost. The Factional Moral Index is given as a trait that every general has. This trait gives him a bonus/malus in Troop Moral and Unrest, independently of his personal qualities as a general or governor. It also affects the loyalty of your generals. The levels are:

    Poor Moral (Factional Moral below 25)
    Weak Moral (Factional Moral between 25 and 74)
    Good Moral (Factional Moral between 75 and 124)
    Perfect Moral (Factional Moral above 125)

    Once a faction’s moral drops below 0 it will dissolve. This means it will surrender all its possessions to another faction (Roman faction usually surrender to other Roman factions whereas foreign factions usually surrender to the slaves). As a result, you don’t have to conquer each village and kill every family member of an opposing faction. Inflicting some crushing defeats and taking a handful of provinces can do to break their necks. On the other hand, that faction doesn’t have to surrender to you. You might as well have strengthened another opponent that way.


    Octavian vs. Antony


    Civil War Leaders
    Civil War factions usually have one or more Civil War Leaders. These are not to be confused with the M2TW faction leader (even though it usually is one and the same person on game start). A Civil War leader is defined by a special ancillary (‘Dux’). This ancillary can neither be transferred nor be acquired by other characters. A Civil War Faction that has lost all its leaders can no longer prevail and will undergo Factional Dissolution (see above).


    Rome, Grain and Roman Offices
    Holding Rome can offer you a couple of advantages:
    The faction that is holding Rome gets 2 extra moral points each turn. Conquering Rome gives you another 18 moral points – losing Rome will cost you 18 points in return.
    Even in civil war times, Rome is considered the seat of the lawful Roman government, last but not least because of the Senate. So Roman factions, and sometimes also client kingdoms, usually surrender to the faction that is holding Rome (if possible). Senatorial offices can also only be acquired by a faction that also holding Rome. Senatorial offices are:

    Period 1 & 2
    Consul (I)
    Consul (II)
    Proconsul Africae
    Proconsul Asiae
    Proconsul Gallia Cisalpina
    Propraetor Gallia Narbonensis
    Propraetor Hispania citerior
    Propraetor Hispania ulterior
    Propraetor Macedonia
    Propraetor Sardinia & Corsica
    Propraetor Sicilia
    Propraetor Bithyniae
    Propraetor Ciliciae & Cypri
    Propraetor Illyriae
    Propraetor Syriae

    Period 3
    Proconsul Africae
    Proconsul Asiae
    Propraetor Gallia Narbonensis
    Propraetor Sardinia & Corsica
    Propraetor Sicilia
    Propraetor Macedonia
    Propraetor Bithyniae
    Propraetor Achaeae
    Propraetor Cretae & Cyrene
    Propraetor Cypri
    Propraetor Baeticae

    In order to acquire a provincial office your character has to be inside the respective province and your faction has to hold Rome. Once your faction has acquired a certain office it can be transferred to any other character. Only when one holder dies a new acquisition is required via Rome.
    Additionally there are seven Imperial Offices in Period 3:

    Praefectus Urbi
    Praefectus Praetorio
    Praefectus Aegypti
    and 4x Legatus Augusti

    The legates can be appointed by any Roman faction. The Urban (i.e. Roman) and the Egyptian Prefect can be appointed in the respective provinces. Praetorian Prefect cannot be appointed. The office is granted on game start.

    Holding Rome is also holding a great responsibility. That is, you are responsible for feeding the citizens of Rome. In peace times, this is not much of a problem because with Sicily, Sardinia and Africa Province there are three ‘granaries’ right across the sea. Things become more complicated in civil wars because Roman governors do not hold back from starving Rome herself in order to bring a rival into trouble. In order to secure Rome’s supply you have to control five corn exporting cities. The corn exporting cities are:

    Syracusae
    Lilybaeum
    Caralis
    Utica/Carthago
    Leptis
    Chersonesos
    Crimean Neapolis
    Pantikápaion
    Hermonassa
    Alexandria (The Alex counts for four corn exporting cities)

    When you do not hold five of them you still have the option to buy corn from them. Each ‘load’ of corn costs you 1,000; again Alexandria counts for four cities, means you can buy up to four ‘loads’ from there. Buying corn only is possible when you have sufficient funds and as long as the respective city not is held by a hostile faction.
    Supply is checked for every January. When he holder of Rome ensured sufficient supply everything is fine and his faction gets 5 moral points. In case the holder failed to provide full supply the City might see a ‘Corn Rebellion’. The chance of such rebellion is happening is depending on the amount of grain missing (from 16% to 84%). When a Corn Rebellion happened the faction that is holding Rome loses 18 points moral and unrest in Rome will seriously rise.



    The Year of the Four Emperors: Vitellius crosses the Alps


    The Snapshot World
    Each scenario only covers a small span of time. The 12-turns-per-year mean that everything that happens within two years, for example, and take four or eight turns in other mods, take 24 turns in this mod. The built-times and –costs have been raised respectively. This also means that some advanced structures take longer to build than the scenario is going. In general, on game start your cities are what they should have been in the period and improving usually doesn’t pay off during the scenario.

    You will also notice that your characters don’t acquire additional personal traits. They are who they are and wouldn’t seriously change in their personality during the two or three years of that civil war; even though the war experience might cause a change in their later lives.



    Designer Notes
    This game plays much different to other mods or M2TW Vanilla. You will not achieve much when you sit around, improve your towns and armies, mob up a rebel settlement from time to time and wait for the next AI faction being stupid enough to attack you. When the game starts you usually have plenty of armies and well developed provinces at your disposal, and you are at war with most other factions who are the same strong. So, this is pretty much a war game and you will encounter massive battles right from the start.

    The Factional Moral should not be a problem for you because you usually win the battles against the AI (do you?), unless of course you prefer auto-calc. Keeping your Dux alive can be a bit more challenging (as long as you don’t hide him somewhere). I managed to lose “Octavian vs. Antony” within three turns, for example, because I had my Octavian being killed in a completely unimportant encounter with Antonian cavalry right after landing in Greece.

    Keeping Rome in supply shouldn’t be much of a deal as long as you have sufficient funds because in most scenarios either Egypt or the Bosporan Kingdom are non-hostile factions, and each of them is able to provide you with four out of five ‘loads’ of corn. On the other hand, occupying Alexandria or the Bosporan Kingdom can cause serious trouble to the faction holding Rome.

    Note that this mod is still pretty much Beta: I didn’t test each scenario with every faction. I didn’t encounter any crashes and the scripts seem to be working as intended. So, that’s what would be called ‘playable’. A first version had rather small armies with one real legion roughly corresponding one unit, larger militia garrisons and recruit times of three turns. This resulted in the AI making their family members and legions the garrisons, and marshaling armies of the militia; absolutely not what was intended. I then raised armies’ size to one historical legion corresponding with 8 units (4x legionary cohort, 4x auxilia, including cavalry and arches). I also reduced recruit times and militias. This finally resulted in the huge armies and massive battles I was looking for.

    I hope you'll enjoy it!



    The Crisis of the Third Century: Gallic Empire vs. Franks


    FAQ
    Why is it standalone?
    This sub-mod not only adds additional campaigns but also changes a couple of things of DBM; such as different factions, a new EDB and a new EDU. Stock DBM would no longer be playable after installing this game over DBM. That’s why it has a mod folder of its own.

    Why are not all factions playable and what about the missing factions?
    This mod focuses on Rome and her civil wars. I not only had to remove some factions because I needed more Roman factions but I also deliberately excluded as much factions as possible from the game. This seriously speeds up turn times, and it drastically reduced the amount of work needed to compile one descr_strat (and there are 14 different of them in this mod). Making one of the Minor Factions playable isn’t recommended anyways because they are only rump factions, only implemented as far as the AI needs them to be functional but not in a way it would be playable, or enjoyable, for a human player. So, please stick to the Major Factions, they had been work enough.

    Why does it end in 275 AD?
    After the ‘Crisis of the Third Century’ Rome developed into what would be the Late Empire. Displaying this would require a new set of units, for example something like the units in IB2, and also new foreign factions. Religion would play a role, and so on. A post-275 version indeed would require another game.

    Where are my diplomats?
    In most scenarios, diplomacy wouldn’t make any sense (four guys fighting for the Throne can talk it out). Whenever diplomats are allowed they are pre-placed on the map.


    Credits
    The entire mod is set up on DBM. All credit for units and other non-changed material has to go there.
    This mod is inspired by West End Game’s 1985 board game Imperium Romanum II. ASFAIK, West End Games no longer is active, but you find a PC version of that game under:
    http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Mod...ium_Romanum_II (search the internet for a rule book).



    Installation
    Download all 8 files. Store them in one folder and extract them to your ...\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods folder. Make sure you select "extract here" otherwise you'll have Imperium Romanum inside an obsolet additional "Imperium Romanum" folder and the batch won't be able to find the Kingdoms.exe.




    Start the game by clicking on "Play DBM - Gioca DBM"




    http://www.gamefront.com/files/24972...num.part01.rar
    http://www.gamefront.com/files/24973...num.part02.rar
    http://www.gamefront.com/files/24973...num.part03.rar
    http://www.gamefront.com/files/24973...num.part04.rar
    http://www.file-upload.net/download-...art05.rar.html
    http://www.file-upload.net/download-...art06.rar.html
    http://www.file-upload.net/download-...art07.rar.html
    http://www.file-upload.net/download-...art08.rar.html
    Last edited by Rampante-Cid; May 13, 2015 at 04:18 PM.



  6. #8906
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC
    Posts
    16,318
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    This is actually really awesome, I need to download this.

  7. #8907
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Intreresting! Sadly I live in one of those countries in which Filefront (= ing bastards) doesn't work so, .. ti saluto "Imperium Romanum"!

  8. #8908
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC
    Posts
    16,318
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Ask them for a mirror site to DL it then.

  9. #8909

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    Ask them for a mirror site to DL it then.
    In fact KEA has already post an alternative donwload links from MEGA:

    https://mega.co.nz/#F!QlJ1iRpR!sqlgOZZwfkfVeG-vpnLwJA



  10. #8910
    Gen.jamesWolfe's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    in my house.
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Quote Originally Posted by First Citizen Gallienus View Post
    Well that sucks lol.

    Edit: By the way have you guys seen this film before?

    stop @ 3:33:

    really? you're going to use a 17th or 18th century cuirass?
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  11. #8911

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen.jamesWolfe View Post
    stop @ 3:33:

    really? you're going to use a 17th or 18th century cuirass?
    OMG!
    Proculus: Divine Caesar, PLEASE! What have I done? Why am I here?
    Caligula: Treason!
    Proculus: Treason? I have always been loyal to you!
    Caligula: [laughs insanely] That IS your treason! You're an honest man, Proculus, which means a bad Roman! Therefore, you are a traitor! Logical, hmm? Ha, ha, ha!

  12. #8912
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Oh well, be not so harsh, they are not professional actors!

    .. And consider please that Romans and Napoleonic French actually had something to share ..




    I'm firmly convinced that if the Roman Empire had survived up to XIX century the Romans would have been very close to the Napoleonic army.

    Elite Regiments as Chasseur a Cheval de la Garde or Gendarmes as part of the Scholae Palatinae:



    Cuirassiers and Carbiniers as natural development of Catafractarii and Clibanarii:



    Hussards, Chasseurs and Eclaireurs as natural evolution of Equites Dalmati and Illyriciani:



    Dragoons as Equites Promoti:



    The Legions:



    .. their Voltigeurs as Lanciarii:



    Auxilia from eveywhere:



    Not forgetting artillery of course!


  13. #8913
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Antiokheia
    Posts
    4,274

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    A dark cloud is on the horizon!!
    Those monsters from IS are approaching the magnificent site of Palmyra. A dark day for mankind if they get there. I do hope the Syrians can stop them.

  14. #8914
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Antiochus Philopappos View Post
    A dark cloud is on the horizon!!
    Those monsters from IS are approaching the magnificent site of Palmyra. A dark day for mankind if they get there. I do hope the Syrians can stop them.


    May I try to rewrite you post using my personal point of view (that is the most absolute actual truth as I see it)?

    "A dark cloud is on the horizon!!
    The Islamic-Fascist monsters of the ISIS, actively supported and financed by Saudi Arabia and Quatar, which are the closest allies of USA, UK, Turkey, Israeli and EU in the area, are approaching the magnificent site of Palmyra. A dark day for mankind if they get there. I do hope the Syrains, which are already under constant attack by the rebels acting on their territory and actively supperted by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and by their allies USA, UK, Turkey, Israeli and EU, will fight for us the battle we refuse to fight to defend our common heritage and will stop them."


  15. #8915
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Antiokheia
    Posts
    4,274

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Do you know something really f*#ing annoying for whatever reason, whoever has deemed it necessary I cannot access the Palmyra Museum website (I am writing a paper on Greek identity and cultural expression in the east) the website is or was run by the Syrian government. So no doubt it is deemed 'unsafe' for Western citizens

    Edit: it was supposed to say "know something really ....annoying"!
    Last edited by Antiokhos Euergetes; May 15, 2015 at 06:58 AM.

  16. #8916
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Antiochus Philopappos View Post
    Do you know something really f*#ing annoying for whatever reason, whoever has deemed it necessary I cannot access the Palmyra Museum website (I am writing a paper on Greek identity and cultural expression in the east) the website is or was run by the Syrian government. So no doubt it is deemed 'unsafe' for Western citizens
    I can only repeat what I feel as a moral and political duty:

    We (Europeans and Americans) are actively supproting that sub-human crap which is close to destroy Palmyra = WE ARE DESTROYING PALMYRA

    This point must be clear to us all: Europeans, Americans, Israeli citizens, Turks and whoever thinks the ruins of Palmyra for some reason are part of their cultural heritage as human beings, no matter if Leftist or Right Wing, no matter if Republican or Democratic, no matter if Green, Socialist, Liberal, Labourist or Conservative, we all MUST understand and realize that the choices of our governments are supporting the actions of ISIS, we must realize that if Palmyra, as other hundreds sites of the area, will be destroyed, the material authors will be the men of ISIS, but the real the perpetrators of the destruction of Palmyra are the actual political supporters of ISIS, that is, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and their masters: USA, UK, Turkey, Israeli and EU.

    Our governments, for a precise voluntary political choice, have decided that Palmyra and the whole Middle East can be sacrificed to a fool political project, in which Syria must fall just because Syria is the closest ally of Iran in the area, and Iran is the only one actual obstacle to the hegemony of Saudi Arabia and their political masters to get the control of the whole Middle East.

    The other choice we have, it is just refusing the truth, maybe saying that the truth doesn't exist (it's the same thing) and going on as we have done in these last years, doing nothing and craying for the evil men of ISIS which are destroying the Syrian and Iraqui heritage, maybe organizing even a nice idiotic défilée on the streets of Paris with some pomaded and pompous dickhead of the calibre of Francois Hollande, Angela Merkel, Camerun, Renzi and the Emire of Quatar (the season is right, Paris in May is a place of astonishing beauty). All in all, it's just what we are already doing everyday and in any election day: who cares about Palmyra?

  17. #8917

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Palmyra has already been damaged by rebel and government artillery attacks, the Colonnades were especially hit hard. However Diocle, what would you have the world (specifically the west) do? march into Syria like it did in Iraq? support Assad´s genocidal rule, after all if he had been a decent human being and listened to the demands and concerns of its people this would not have happened. No, this is a complex situation, and though i would very well like to see european and american forces protecting whatever is left of the cultural heritage of the near east, i know very well it will not happen. It all falls on the Sirians and Iraquis to do it, but seeing that they do not seem to care, i have little hope, after all the ones who looted the Baghdad Museum in 2003 were iraquis themselves, so much for their appreciation of their own history.

  18. #8918
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Quote Originally Posted by juanplay View Post
    Palmyra has already been damaged by rebel and government artillery attacks, the Colonnades were especially hit hard. However Diocle, what would you have the world (specifically the west) do? march into Syria like it did in Iraq? support Assad´s genocidal rule, after all if he had been a decent human being and listened to the demands and concerns of its people this would not have happened. No, this is a complex situation, and though i would very well like to see european and american forces protecting whatever is left of the cultural heritage of the near east, i know very well it will not happen. It all falls on the Sirians and Iraquis to do it, but seeing that they do not seem to care, i have little hope, after all the ones who looted the Baghdad Museum in 2003 were iraquis themselves, so much for their appreciation of their own history.
    Genocide rule? Yes because our allies the Saudi are boy scout? Please!

    What the West could do is ending the idiotic support to the Saudi and Qatar Islamo-Nazis, this could have done the chimpanzee and his petty dogs!

    Iraquis looted the museum under the eyes of the American troops doing NOTHING!!!! ... and what they found was on sale after few months at London and New York!

    Now contine your sorrowful cry about war and its cruelty, I'm not here to convince anyone, I'm here to write things that will stay here so that maybe somebody one day passing here can read my thoughts and know he's not alone in this Western darkness.

  19. #8919
    Mary The Quene's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Hatfield House
    Posts
    8,123

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    Quote Originally Posted by juanplay View Post
    Palmyra has already been damaged by rebel and government artillery attacks, the Colonnades were especially hit hard. However Diocle, what would you have the world (specifically the west) do? march into Syria like it did in Iraq? support Assad´s genocidal rule, after all if he had been a decent human being and listened to the demands and concerns of its people this would not have happened. No, this is a complex situation, and though i would very well like to see european and american forces protecting whatever is left of the cultural heritage of the near east, i know very well it will not happen. It all falls on the Sirians and Iraquis to do it, but seeing that they do not seem to care, i have little hope, after all the ones who looted the Baghdad Museum in 2003 were iraquis themselves, so much for their appreciation of their own history.
    Please don't speak about Syria if you don't know about it.

    All this Humanism talk from the Western countries is hypocritical. If the Western countries really cared about Humanism then the Saudi's and Qatar etc would have been bombed to dust............ It's hypocrite to slam Assad his elections but approve the elections of Hadi Mansrour in Yemen etc.
    Veritas Temporis Filia

  20. #8920
    vikior's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Posts
    495

    Default Re: - The Tavern -

    I have to agree with Diocle on this one. I won't go much into the whole Assad thing, but all I see is that this is a repetition of the Lybia scenario.
    The West toppled the cruel genocidal dictator Gaddafi, but what have they really accomplished by that?

    I mean, half of those guys that fought against Gaddafi (and who were armed and actively supported by The West) are now waving their black banners and dreaming of conquering the world for Allah. Gaddafi, although a dictator, held the tribes and the country together. Now, it's even worse than when he was in power.

    In Saudi Arabia, women aren't allowed to drive cars, Christians and Atheists can face death penalty, and the West does absolutely nothing about it. It's absurd hypocrisy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •