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Thread: Darth Like - Do not Like review

  1. #1
    DARTH VADER's Avatar DARTIS
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    Default Darth Like - Do not Like review

    I have played a few hours the Shogun 2 and I would like to share my opinion with you in a brief way this time. First, I will write the "I Like" things and then the "I do not Like".

    I Like

    • The fantastic interface (very well designed).
    • The fantastic music (Many tracks are re-mastered old tracks of the 1st Shogun as I remember).
    • Very good variety of things to read and learn about the game (the encyclopaedia, the videos, the tutorials etc.).
    • Excellent campaign map design and graphics (The innovation to reveal the 2D paper map with the 3D map as you explore it is very clever and everything around seems well designed).
    • The sound all around is very good and creates cinematic atmosphere.
    • The graphics are very good and the animations as well.
    • The AI is functional and seems to know what to do without hesitation (very good for an unpatched vanilla game but it has some issues, read below).
    • The more turns per year and the seasons are back (great!).
    • The ability to choose how to upgrade your characters is truly a very enjoying factor, although this progresses very slowly if you do not fight with your generals.
    • The auto replenishment of armies and the attrition are fantastic strategic features (introduced from the Napoleon game).
    • The variety in campaign to use agents and the feature to decide about the fate of your people in random events.
    • The random missions which can be very rewarding.
    • The trade routes that fill with AI ships (but the AI does not protect them well).
    • The unit balance is good overall.


    I do not Like

    • The insane speed of the units (I think I play with armoured insects not with human soldiers).
    • The BAI as it seems becomes better for 2 main reasons: the enhanced speed which disfavours the human player as he cannot issue orders that fast as the computer, and the melee type of the battles. The melee type of the battles makes them very straightforward and simple for any AI, so you notice the AI mostly to rush forward and seek the melee and to be able to win because of that. If the AI did that in Empire or Napoleon, it would not be as successful. Personally I do not get satisfaction to play quick, click and point, arcade battles, no matter if due to the frenetic speed they can become a challenge. This type of game fits more to inpatient school boys not to veteran strategy players. But I know... I belong to the minority.
    • The CAI is very aggressive but that does not mean it is 100% functional. I do not think it can hold alliances that way, and with the insane handicap bonuses you see it to raise hordes while you as the player try to hold with misery small armies. Also, it leaves the cities undefended and becomes an easy target. For example the Oda (the great historic clan) dies in turn 1... turn 1. Unacceptable. This should be addressed.
    • The auto-detection of PC specifications does not work and you can have a good PC but you will be unable to max the settings or at least play with ultra size armies (this will be fixed as it has been announced).
    • The unit sizes are still too small. I cannot understand why the designers do not give more freedom of choice to make the unit size bigger. The normal size should be the current "ultra setting" and so we could increase the scale more. We are in 2011, the PCs can handle this. Platoon battles are not exactly what the Total War series advertises.
    • Melees are too static and you cannot see penetrations and havoc as realism factors cry for it.
    • Bow fire is too accurate (homing missiles). That means they home to the targets with 100% accuracy but the game "deflector shield", not necessarily the armour of the units, filters down the damage. It would be better to make the trajectories more realistic, and reduce this "deflector shield".
    • Laser trails for bows, muskets, cannons etc. can be a feature for some but how difficult would be to have an option on/off for it?
    • Normal difficulty rate, seems to give too many bonuses to the CAI but even this does not help it from being mostly idle. It does not know how to protect its castles, and cannot naval invade (unless scripted maybe?). I have not tested higher difficulties yet.
    • Naval warfare is not existent in campaign map, because the CAI does not know how to use the ships? (Normal difficulty). In higher difficulties it has been confirmed by users that it does that efficiently.
    • The auto-calculation of battles in normal difficulty often calculates zero casualties. Although this is better than previous TW titles where it was very unfair for the human player, now it is too easy and tempts the player to use it more.
    • Very few historical battles. Again... is it so demanding to have a list of 10+ historic battles?
    • The battle physics destroy the good job that has been done in the unit balance. All the units are "charge and forget". Melees end in seconds. But why? To hide an AI inconsistency? Is it a desired feature to have battles end in about 5 minutes? The result in my eyes is a splatter not a simulation of a battle.
    • The CAI in harder difficulties is better. Normal difficulty is something between a tutorial and an easy setting. I have not lost time to test the easy campaign for obvious reasons. But it is the many bonuses to CAI that make it difficult. The human player cannot raise from a single underdeveloped province the hordes that the CAI can recruit.
    • The CAI does not garrison the fortresses. As a result the human player can easily take a province but not only him. The neglected provinces are conquered one after another, also by the AI factions. So what we have here is a chaotic endless circle. The factions cannot easily gain footholds (that is the meaning of a fortress, to secure a province). So the province conquering is mostly a brainless and straightforward action: Mass troops in a single stack-> Attack the neighbour->Probably he has no defence but does the same with you to another neighbour->You get the province->If it is his only province and he has not managed to reach himself the other province to take->He is out of the game->Next circle. Allow me to name this a childish setting... no more vanilla playing for me. I begin to mod. Read below the final verdict.

    Summary
    Overall, Total War: Shogun 2 is a solid and very addictive game. Even a player, who is not so keen on strategy games, can love it. There are many features to explore, thus the game has a large re-playability factor. But, the demanding strategy gamer may soon find boring the un-realistic and quick battles, even though they can be challenging and difficult. With mod enhancements can soon be rated 10, an absolute excellency. However, I recommend to players with good graphic cards to wait a little for the patch that corrects Anti-Aliasing, DX 10 and 11 support, graphic card detection and multiplayer CTDs. The game currently plays somewhat poorly visually (at least for me, Empire:Total War plays much smoother, with better visuals and with 3X more troops... strange). The first patching procedure of CA has revealed a rather hasty and inconsistent support for the game. Although they do try to fix all bugs, sometimes to try is not enough, especially in the world of commerce and money.

    Final Rating
    9.0
    (For the average player)
    8.0
    (For the veteran strategist, the aged player of Total war games)

    Note: I want to thank publicly Thoal who has gifted me the game through Steam, as a donation for my modding efforts. His kind gesture will not be forgotten.

  2. #2
    Froggie38's Avatar Ashigaru
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    I've quite same opinion than you.

    I really regret that you cant play the campain with an ally all long, and the too aggressive AI

  3. #3
    teapot156's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    The effectiveness of bows is getting on my nerves a little, other than that pretty cool so far.

  4. #4
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    What I really hate as Darth mentioned is the insane speed of the units.
    There is a mod for the demo that reduces speed by 30% that seems to be perfect so it might be a good place to start.

  5. #5
    ♔DARTH LEGO♔'s Avatar LetTHeSUgarFloW.......
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    ***Eagerly has his finger hovering over the purchase button, as Darth's involvement/ approval will tip the scales****

    **....The world waits....**

  6. #6
    Evan MF's Avatar Chugen
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    I agree about the "arcade" nature of battles. Back in the Rome days you had a lot more control over your units as they retained rigidity and shape much more easily when engaged. The speed also prevents users from being able to admire the battle graphically and to an extent prevents them to think tactically as its just a frantic rush.

    I also agree about the melee animations which are distinctly unstructured and unbalanced (one moment a man is standing idle, the next he is engaging in an elabourate sword duel).

    Evan
    The Third Age Is Ending... Dark Forces Ammass In The East...

    Click the spoiler to find out more:
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  7. #7
    ♔Noif de Bodemloze♔'s Avatar The God of War
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH VADER View Post
    I have played a few hours the Shogun 2 and I would like to share my opinion with you in a brief way this time. First, I will write the "I Like" things and then the "I do not Like".

    I Like
    -The fantastic interface (very well designed).
    -The fantastic music (Many tracks are re-mastered old tracks of the 1st Shogun as I remember).
    -Very good variety of things to read and learn about the game (the encyclopedia, the videos, the tutorials etc.).
    -Excellent campaign map design and graphics (The innovation to reveal the 2D paper map with the 3D map as you explore it is very clever and everything around seems well designed).
    -The sound all around is very good and creates cinematic atmosphere.
    -The graphics are very good and the animations as well.
    -The AI is functional and seems to know what to do without hesitation (very good for an unpatched vanilla game but it has some issues, read below).
    -The more turns per year and the seasons are back (great!).

    I do not Like
    -The insane speed of the units (I think I play with armoured insects not with human soldiers).
    -The BAI as it seems becomes better for 2 main reasons: the enhanced speed which disfavours the human player as he cannot issue orders that fast as the computer, and the melee type of the battles. The melee type of the battles makes them very straightforward and simple for any AI, so you notice the AI mostly to rush forward and seek the melee and to be able to win because of that. If the AI did that in Empire or Napoleon, it would not be as successful. Personally I do not get satisfaction to play quick, click and point, arcade battles, no matter if due to the frenetic speed they can become a challenge. This type of game fits more to inpatient school boys not to veteran strategy players. But I know... I belong to the minority.
    -The CAI is very aggressive but that does not mean it is 100% functional. I do not think it can hold alliances that way, and with the insane handicap bonuses you see it to raise hordes while you as the player try to hold with misery small armies. Also, it leaves the cities undefended and becomes an easy target. For example the Oda (the great historic clan) dies in turn 1... turn 1. Unacceptable. This should be addressed.
    -The auto-detection of PC specifications does not work and you can have a good PC but you will be unable to max the settings or at least play with ultra size armies (this will be fixed as it has been announced).
    -The unit sizes are still too small. I cannot understand why the designers do not give more freedom of choice to make the unit size bigger. The normal size should be the current "ultra setting" and so we could increase the scale more. We are in 2011, the PCs can handle this. Platoon battles are not exactly what the Total War series advertises.
    -Melees are too static and you cannot see penetrations and havoc as realism factors cry for it.
    -Bow fire is too accurate (homing missiles).
    -Laser trails for bows, muskets, cannons etc. can be a feature for some but how difficult would be to have an option on/off for it?

    Rating: (undecided... need more playing hours)




    I may update this as I play.
    I would sign your review, Darth Vader.

  8. #8
    alhoon's Avatar Roiyarugādo
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    Interesting review. Thanks Darth.

    PS. I don't have the game but from the demo (the few mins I played), I don't like the strategy map. I don't like the paper/3D thing.

  9. #9
    Sukauto
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH VADER View Post
    This type of game fits more to inpatient school boys not to veteran strategy players.
    Making everything kid-friendly is not a good idea for Total War.

  10. #10
    billydilly's Avatar Sōkō yumi
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    @alhoon

    I love the paper/3D thing. It's the best looking strategy map so far.
    TOTAL WAR ROME II

    CPU: AMD Phenom II Quadcore @ 3.2Ghz
    Motherboard: Gigabyte 870A-UD3
    RAM: Kingston, 4Gb DDR3 @ 1333
    Harddrive: Western Digital 500Gb, 7200rpm.
    Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5770 (1GB)

  11. #11
    ♔DARTH LEGO♔'s Avatar LetTHeSUgarFloW.......
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    Quote Originally Posted by Hofan View Post
    Making everything kid-friendly is not a good idea for Total War.
    but unfortunately it does appeal to the 'casual predominantly console, i have pc just beacuse i do, with too much disposable income market'

    Hence why the comments on battles are centering around 'too fast and too arcadey' they seemed to have taken making the strat map alot more interactive and game winning dependent, but in lieu of this seemed to have forsaken the RT element of the battles.

    CA need to realise that they broke the ground with the most intense RTS/TBS hybridised franchise ever, they set their own standard to which they haven't been able to maintain....IMHO

    I reckon they were figuring the RPG element would make up for this, but again by my reckoning they are not playing to their biggest strength of their own gaming genre...


    ...and that is of the massive intense ground shaking battles that have rattled the virtual world of PC's everywhere....

    I reckon once they get back to that way of thinking their will be no stopping the level of success...

  12. #12
    alhoon's Avatar Roiyarugādo
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    Yeah, I know 99% like it. I'm in the 1%.

    PS. Before I go to town to order the game... is there a mod about fixing the speed of the battle? I want slower killings and slower moving armies from what I've read and what I've seen in the demo.

  13. #13
    zowrath's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    I couldn't agree more. This game as vanilla is definitely not made with the veteran player in mind, but rather those who just like fast paced action. That is certainly not me. Though seeing Darth post makes me have a hope that we'll see Darth Improved CAI/BAI in the not so distant future

    About the graphics though, the units appear almost like shiny plastic toy soldiers to me. I find that a bit disturbing. They don't look lifelike, if one can say that. In ETW I looked at my troops and saw men. Now I see shiny toys. There's been a few others that's posted similar concerns, so I guess that'll be modded as well in the future.
    Last edited by zowrath; March 17, 2011 at 06:36 AM.
    Maratha Light Infantry - http://www.sendspace.com/file/ibfygu

    Col. Michael Kováts Hussars
    - United States - http://www.sendspace.com/file/j272k5

    Norske Geworbne & Trondhjemske Regiment - Norway -
    http://www.sendspace.com/file/tmvpk6


    Links updated 06.05.13

  14. #14
    billydilly's Avatar Sōkō yumi
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    @zowrath

    I agree with you on that one. It's very shiny and smooth, the clothes and horses have no texture.
    TOTAL WAR ROME II

    CPU: AMD Phenom II Quadcore @ 3.2Ghz
    Motherboard: Gigabyte 870A-UD3
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    Harddrive: Western Digital 500Gb, 7200rpm.
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  15. #15
    Ecka65's Avatar Ishiyumi no shashu
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    Thanks Darth. At the interface and campaign level it is the best looking TW to date - no argument. The battles however are, in my frank and honest opinion, the worst since the original Shogun. Perhaps we've (I've) been spoiled, but after playing Empire for hundreds of hours on an old GPU and clunking CPU on medium and low settings - I just can't get over or fathom how the battles in the second TW since look worse. On a light years better rig!?? The BAi? It isn't really "better", it's pretty much MTW2 melee BAi. The CAi? Thanks to the movement restrictions using the topography of Japan most movement is "chanelled". Less for the Ai to work out. That and ramped aggression = Shogun 2's CAi.

    I too am still playing. But I'm disappointed big time thus far. Forget a "month" for the patch. I'll likely be back playing NTW and ETW in days. Because I play TW for the BATTLES. Not pretty campaign maps.

  16. #16
    zowrath's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    In all fairness, ETW wasn't all that when it was released either. You had the laser bullets, chicken dances, melee crazed line infantry and whatnot. But yeah, I was quite disappointed about the battlefields. I won't say I felt ETW's battlefields where totally realistic, but they had a feel that made me at least feel comfortable with them.

    In Shogun 2, you know those square toy battlefields you could get as a kid where you could place your toy soldiers and pretend to fight with them? That's the feeling I get. Feels not like a real battlefield. Perhaps the colours are off, the detail is certainly not up to par even on Ultra setting.

    That being said, I do not need fancy graphics to enjoy a game but I would at least expect it to be as good and have the same feel as ETW/NTW. As I've said in a couple of other threads, this game like the ones before it begs to be modded in so many ways. Then it will shine, like ETW eventually did as well. Though vanilla caters to what seems a majority that are content with things like they are. Be it graphics or AI. So in turn Shogun 2 sells well, and they will have an incentive to continue making TW-games. Which in turn we'll buy, not like vanilla much and wait for it to be modded. It's a cycle I guess
    Maratha Light Infantry - http://www.sendspace.com/file/ibfygu

    Col. Michael Kováts Hussars
    - United States - http://www.sendspace.com/file/j272k5

    Norske Geworbne & Trondhjemske Regiment - Norway -
    http://www.sendspace.com/file/tmvpk6


    Links updated 06.05.13

  17. #17
    monsterfurby's Avatar Shashu
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    I agree, mostly.
    Being one of the people who argued wit CA on the AI playing too agressively I have to break a lance for them now, though - I, as a player, have to keep castles empty as well to expand. As a human being though, I have some sort of peripheral vision - I can assess which castles are safe and which ones are guarded by my army advancing along a chokepoint route towards the enemy (which is helped a lot by the structure of the map). The AI does not. That's the problem - the AI has no idea which cities are safe and which are not (in the case of a one-province faction: no, your main castle is not safe, Oda!). It needs to learn to parry before it strikes.

    As for unit speed - I am usually more of a strategist myself and prefer a slower approach. For some reason though, this is not much of a problem for me in Shogun 2. True, I didn't play the other games in multiplayer, but certainly the frantic pace makes me feel all the better after a victory. It's more stressful, to be sure, but also more rewarding. Also, it gives you the excuse of not being fast enough if you lose, instead of having to admit to being the player of inferior intellect

    The one true annoyance, as zowrath mentioned, are the battlefields. As in Shogun 1, there is one battlefield per province, no matter where you fight. I find that somewhat annoying as the AI uses the same tactics on some battlefields every time - for example hiding in a certain forest. Once you know what they are doing, you can intercept and slaughter them utterly.







  18. #18
    Raied's Avatar Kirā
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    100% agree with Darth's review.

  19. #19
    MorganH.'s Avatar Finis adest rerum
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    @Darth;Thanks for this first review mate,+rep

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    PS. Before I go to town to order the game... is there a mod about fixing the speed of the battle? I want slower killings and slower moving armies from what I've read and what I've seen in the demo.
    Yes there is,here;
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=429413

  20. #20
    alhoon's Avatar Roiyarugādo
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    Default Re: Darth Like - Do not Like review

    Quote Originally Posted by MorganH. View Post
    @Darth;Thanks for this first review mate,+rep



    Yes there is,here;
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=429413
    This is for the demo or the main campaign?

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