KISS principle applied to Ai

**Ecka65** · March 16, 2011, 07:42 PM

Is it just me, or does the campaign map resemble more of a maze regarding movement?

I think the CAi issues have been dealt with using the Keep It Simple Stupid principle. I noticed after Empire that Napoleon introduced a lot more bridges and impassable terrain thus "channeling" movement options. Shogun 2 has taken it to an almost unsurpassed level. There's rarely more than 2 or 3 ways in or out of a province, and they connect together like a maze. This makes the Ai job much simpler.

Since the naval element in Empire was added the Ai seems to always have the ability to see through the fog. Same with Shogun 2 on sea and land. So is the Ai "better", or has the environment it works in just been made easier? I think the latter, and kudos!

The Ai can "see" when a province is undefended or lightly defended. It can "see" which of the one or two ways in to the province are blocked so pick the right one. Each faction MUST expand as one province isn't enough to support much more than a defence force. So, move out and away, and the Ai will try to move in.

A pretty simple way to overcome some issues and make the CAi seem "harder", "better" etc. Thoughts?

**Maizel** · March 16, 2011, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ecka65

Is it just me, or does the campaign map resemble more of a maze regarding movement?

I think the CAi issues have been dealt with using the Keep It Simple Stupid principle. I noticed after Empire that Napoleon introduced a lot more bridges and impassable terrain thus "channeling" movement options. Shogun 2 has taken it to an almost unsurpassed level. There's rarely more than 2 or 3 ways in or out of a province, and they connect together like a maze. This makes the Ai job much simpler.

Since the naval element in Empire was added the Ai seems to always have the ability to see through the fog. Same with Shogun 2 on sea and land. So is the Ai "better", or has the environment it works in just been made easier? I think the latter, and kudos!

The Ai can "see" when a province is undefended or lightly defended. It can "see" which of the one or two ways in to the province are blocked so pick the right one. Each faction MUST expand as one province isn't enough to support much more than a defence force. So, move out and away, and the Ai will try to move in.

A pretty simple way to overcome some issues and make the CAi seem "harder", "better" etc. Thoughts?

Maybe it has undetected agents near you.

I've seen the AI does this a few times, and I think it;s pretty smart.

The AI, as the player probably knows how many provinces one has.

I was besieged with a near full stack by 2 enemy stacks in my castle. After a slight defeat they gave up and followed the road to my other undefended provinces.

maybe the AI 'knows'' (if an AI can 'know'at all.) But I do not find this to be so ridiculous.

I myself could probably extrapolate that a second region is undefended, when there's a full stack in sight.

**WinsingtonIII** · March 16, 2011, 07:55 PM

I do think the closed terrain is probably helping the CAI, and this principle applies even more to the CAI of Medieval 1 and Shogun 1. Since those both had the Risk style map, it makes perfect sense that the CAI would perform better than on the 3d map (so many fewer options for it to calculate), which is why I don't think it is fair to compare the CAI's of those two original TW games to the later ones and expect the later ones to perform as well.

However, despite being on the 3d map, this CAI is doing pretty well, and that is probably partially due to what you are saying about the terrain, but I do think it has been improved overall.

**Shabby_Ronin** · March 16, 2011, 08:01 PM

I like it too because it's realistic, people don't move armies through wilderness, forest and rice paddies.

**DarkArk** · March 16, 2011, 08:03 PM

There's rarely more than 2 or 3 ways in or out of a province, and they connect together like a maze.

That's how Japanese topography is. 80% of the country is mountains, with valleys in between.

**Ecka65** · March 16, 2011, 08:05 PM

I'm not suggesting there's a problem with the map - far from it. I'm suggesting that the natural restrictions of the map are helping the Ai and making it feel "better". KISS. Great solution.

**Toxe** · March 16, 2011, 08:07 PM

Anyone looked at a map of Japan? It actually has a bloody lot of mountains, hills and forests. Everyone was using the same maze-like road system, this is actually quite realistic and historically correct. I quite like this map.

**Toxe** · March 16, 2011, 08:08 PM

Oh, now I get what you meant. Yes, from a game design point this is quite nice.

**Maizel** · March 16, 2011, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ecka65

I'm not suggesting there's a problem with the map - far from it. I'm suggesting that the natural restrictions of the map are helping the Ai and making it feel "better". KISS. Great solution.

Well so?

Even if the AI was not changed at all is hardly relevant, then.

If you have no problem with the terrain, the terrain is accurate for the region and the AI performs well, the only thing you would have to base your opinions from would be the fact that AI's in for,mer games perform the same. That's just arguing semantics. Even more so because we will never see how N:TW's ai performs.

Whether it;s the terrain, the AI or both, it;s giving me quite the challenge.

Originally Posted by Toxe

Oh, now I get what you meant. Yes, from a game design point this is quite nice.

I also agree.

**Raimeken** · March 16, 2011, 08:08 PM

Its a great solution, all they need to fix now is the AI just going around your huge army that just happened to have no movement points to engage the enemy. Thats really annoying. IRL, armies mostly fought open battle, not trying to avoid each other to capture castles. If they were trying to avoid each other, battles like Sekigahara would never have happened (Tokugawa could have marched straight to the Toyotomi capital and Mitsunari could have just marched straight to Edo)