Roman troops of the Third Century AD

[AMELIANVS]

[First Citizen Gallienus]

Yes some of those I have seen already, others I have not so it's great that you shared them, thank you! And I was able to + rep.

[AMELIANVS]

Thanks

Felsonius Verus, Aquilifer Legio II Parthica Gordiana Pia Fidelis Aeterna by Graham Sumner,from Ancient warfare magazine.

He fell while being 31 years old, probably during the Persian war of Emperor Gordian III.but certainly on campaign against Persians.We dont know when he reached one of the most prestigious positions in the Roman Legions (and the entire Roman army), but at any case he had to be at a relatively low age when he reached rank of Aquilifer and not so long after he joined the army(since he only served for 11 years), which probably indicates his considerable courage during the service.

[Gäiten]

Nice.
I remember another Illustration (Angus Mc Bride) wherein this eagle is thought to had been a living one.

[AMELIANVS]

This illustration was partially painted as reacion on it.Ross Cowan was not the 1st who was playing with idea that eagle of Felsonius Verus was perhaps real living animal(therefore "need" for the cage) but it was only in his "Imperial Roman legionary 165-184" from massively influential Osprey book series moreover painted by famous Angus McBride that this idea get widely spread.However Cowan would probably not let Mr.McBride to paint it like that if he was aware of short passage in Cassius Dio suggesting that Eagle standards were sometimes held in special protective boxes(which probably served also as miniaturised shrine).Such mini-shrine in form of a small house atop of military standard is visible on the portonaccio Sarcophagus right next to Aquila.Cowan later Admitted that he would probably did it diferently if he had it in mind back then.I was hoping to be the first to show Verus with usual artificial eagle just in special box but Sumner was quicker .-)

[Diocle]

However Cowan would probably not let Mr.McBride to paint it like that if he was aware of short passage in Cassius Dio suggesting that Eagle standards were sometimes held in special protective boxes (which probably served also as miniaturised shrine).

Maybe, maybe .. but the idea of the living eagle was of astonishing poetical and ideological strength!

Such mini-shrine in form of a small house atop of military standard is visible on the Portonaccio Sarcophagus right next to Aquila

Is this one the small house/shirne you was referring to? In my opinion it's perfectly suited for housing a (living) bird .. maybe, seen its proportions similar to those of the soldier's head, even a big one, just like an eagle ..

[AMELIANVS]

Yes thats it.It actually looks like cinerary urn.I can never completely reject possibility of Verus eagle being perhaps a living one but since we have absolutely no conclusive evidence for it from any of Roman army many centuries while we have very strong evidence for artificial eagles(and other animals)on Roman(and not just those Roman)standards I will personally prefer rather this second possibility until someone present me good supporting evidence for the first posibility.

Byt he way Mr.McBride LOVED to paint birds and was sometimes hard to control illustrator .-)

[Gäiten]

Is this one the small house/shirne you was referring to? In my opinion it's perfectly suited for housing a (living) bird .. maybe, seen its proportions similar to those of the soldier's head, even a big one, just like an eagle ..

Hmm, I have thought this might have been the first diplay of a German(ic) cuckoo clock ...

[Diocle]

Yes thats it.It actually looks like cinerary urn.I can never completely reject possibility of Verus eagle being perhaps a living one but since we have absolutely no conclusive evidence for it from any of Roman army many centuries while we have very strong evidence for artificial eagles(and other animals)on Roman(and not just those Roman)standards I will personally prefer rather this second possibility until someone present me good supporting evidence for the first posibility.

Byt he way Mr.McBride LOVED to paint birds and was sometimes hard to control illustrator .-)

I love the idea of the living eagle bucause it's a fascinating feature, I think we should leave to the Romans their inexplicable secrets, their mysteries and their tenebrae, all in all the late second an the third centuries were an age of revival of ancient traditions, "Philip I in 248 followed Claudius in celebrating the 1000-year anniversaries of Rome's foundation.", maybe what in those days was looking arcane and mysterius, was just what was surviving of ancient rituals now no more fully understandable in their true meaning, a lot of things were lost and many were misunderstood, and this gives a fashinating touch of mystery to the Baroque art of that age of early Late Antiquity.



So, no evidence at all, just feelings, perhaps dreams, as always happen with my questionable Roman heritage and roots, increased and enhanced by the incomparable art of Master Angus McBride. I just like the archaizing, in some way bizarrely baroque idea of a living eagle, flying high over the battlefield, over men and death, launching her shrill war cry, just to come back home, to the holy shrine of the legion when the time comes ..

[Gäiten]

IMHO it could have been a living eagle.
We are told that Caracalla had pet lions with him at his campaigns and having a living eagle as the Legio II Parthica`s (one of the most elite units) can be a powerful display of power and might.

[AMELIANVS]

But it would probably not be very comfortable for their living mascot not to mention terrible effect on legions moral if that animal died of any reason.Its hard not to think about super superstitious Roman soldiers not taking it as a bad omen especially if it would happened during campaign.Perhaps some reenactor should finally try to have a standard with real animal and gain some practical experience with how much this would be possible or not so he could consequently tell us.

[AMELIANVS]

As for the 1000-year anniversary of Rome's foundation I think Decius would be far more optimal Emperor than Philip to held the celebration.He was a strong tradicionalist who knew Roman history very well and even minted special coins commemorating past Emperors which he considered as best previous Roman rulers(...although its mystery to me why he included Commodus in company of great Emperors I otherwise agree on with him):

[Gäiten]

But it would probably not be very comfortable for their living mascot not to mention terrible effect on legions moral if that animal died of any reason.Its hard not to think about super superstitious Roman soldiers not taking it as a bad omen especially if it would happened during campaign.Perhaps some reenactor should finally try to have a standard with real animal and gain some practical experience with how much this would be possible or not so he could consequently tell us.

Have this living eagle only for ceremonial and more than one could have been a idea how to deal with this problem.
For battle I would not have use a living one, far too dangerous (as you said).

Due this list of the Emperors, I would change Alexander Severus for Caracalla.

[Diocle]

In my opinion, Commodus was not so bad, he kept safe the Limites, he stopped the wars with the Germanic tribes and confederations because it was the best decision to take for the Empire of Rome, literally bled and almost bankrupted (Marcus Aurelius recruited gladiators to form up his Italic legions and he was forced to sell out the jewels of the crown to support the war effort) after almost two decades of the most ferocious war ever seen on the Western borders and after the Great Plague brought in Rome by Lucius Verus returning from his Persian expeditions. The Empire was almost dead, the army was now exhausted and reduced to the extreme limits of its own survival and the peace was desperately needed, so, Commodus gave peace to the Roman people, he gave them 'Bread and Games', what's wrong with this? Nothing, nothing at all.
Did Commodus become more and more paranoid and murderous over time? Well I'd like to see you guys, discovering that your sister is just trying to kill you!

In my opinion it wouldn't be fair to blame Commodus alone for all the tragic issues of the crisis following his death, Herodian and Cassius Dio are clearly biased sources, strictly linked to the extremely corrupt imperial administration and to the circles of the reactionary senatorial right, which never ceased to plot against the Imperial machine (it was almost a ritualized, meaningless and permanent condition of political belligerency between emperors and senators, which began with Augustus and was still there when finally Odoacer did the right thing!), so, before crucifying Commodus we should at least consider that many, if not all the problems historians impute to him, actually had begun under his predecessors, the wise and liberal (and mortally boring) dinasty of the Antonini.

[NapoleonMaster]

Does anyone love the nierderbieber helmet?.

It's the perfect representation of the empire's transition from the principate to the dominate.

It's the most advanced type of helmet developed by the roman army, i'm still surprised that the post-roman kingdoms didn't adopt this helmet and instead they adopted the ridge helmet and other late roman helmets.

Anyway, here's more sweet, sweet images :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Diocle]

Thanks for your generously of putting some of my humble creations together with such artworks by such great artists!

My answer to your interesting question about why Late Romans didn't go on using and developing the best helmet Rome ever produced instead of adopting the garbage known as Intercisa model, is simple*: MONEY (LACK OF).


(*) Beware the answer was fictitiously simple, first of all, because money is an extremely important and complex subject, secondly because it's never easy finding a sensible answer when you see men and/or political systems commiting suicide.

[AMELIANVS]

Yeah I love it although I also like previous and subsequent models.To your question-barbarian Kingdoms after fall of the Roman west didnt adopted it mainly because it was already a long dead model not used by the Romans for centuries while ridge style helmets(which are also beautiful of which many existed in more luxurious and even very luxorious variants and offered better protection than for example famous helmets of "Republican" montefortino series.Most basic models were certainly cheper but not cheap and those more complex models were likely comparable in production cost with older models)were just in use at the time of Roman west fall.

By the way-we might like how it looks like and Nierderbieber certainly offered best head protection from all Roman used helmets ever but Roman soldiers themselves were not necessarily so enthusiastic about it.3rd century writer mentions complains of soldiers on helmet used at their time.Although we cant be 100% sure that the helmet in question was Nierderbieber model the fact its 3rd century source and mainly his descriptions of problems this helmet was causing to its users perfectly fits experiencies of modern reenactors with wearing it so its very likely he had indeed Nierderbieber on mind.

This is drawing called "crisis of the third century" by KieronOGorman:

[tomySVK]

Very interesting discussion this last two pages – I will gather my thoughts and I will post my view on discussed matters. Right now I will just post two new drawings by Jozef Hudi:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[AMELIANVS]

Looks very tasty,illustrations and even articles... which I could not read ...do they offer even digital form of their magazine?Cant find it.https://www.despertaferro-ediciones....rquia-militar/

[Diocle]

Looks very tasty,illustrations and even articles... which I could not read ...do they offer even digital form of their magazine?Cant find it.https://www.despertaferro-ediciones....rquia-militar/

I understand a bit Spanish language being it in some way similar to Italian but sadly .. also I have not understood if there is any chance to get the magazine in digital format.