Vassals vs. Occupation

[niplfsh]

What are the benefits of one over the other? I've just been taking over territories that I conquer; seems to me that I get more money that way, not to mention control over what they build.

[Mr. Os]

Initially yes. However the AI factions seem to be able to build armies in larger quantaties. In my Tokugawa campaign I reconquered Imagawa lands and were able to set them as my vassal. Initially they had a grunt army, eventually they had a very large army.

Vassalship essentially gives you an ally thatll help you in wars only you decide to take part in. The Imagawa helped me defeat the Hojo when they declared war on me. Unfortunately were wiped the by the Takeda, who ironicly are my allies now.

[SMcS]

Vassals are a good choice in the beginning of the game. Its better to have them on your borders than a not related clan and they are trustful allies. If u take care of them for a bit they can become really helpful. Had an Ally, after conquer and reconquer i made him vassal. He has 8 quite wellmanaged provinces now and helped me greatly taking out the Hojo and 2 minor clans (well, 2 a point it got annyoing, cause he grabbed 2 provinces i wanted).

[legate]

As the Chosokabe my first move after dealing with the rebellion in Tosa was to move against the Kono before they got to powerful. I occupied their province and brought it under my clan.

However with the 2 other clans on the island, Myoshi and Sogo, I had a different approach. I made Sogo my vassal after defeating their field army and the Myoshi after marriage accepted my offer sometime later.

This way I found was better since I dont need to garrison their lands, which would cost a fortune. There is no risk of rebellions either and no food worries, plus I gained 2 allies on my east, both of whom have been able to build strong armies.

[Naked Emperor]

Don't forget that you can trade with your vassals

[tarvu]

When you occupy a province you can improve it as you see fit, which generally gives you a better deal than a vassal. Vassal's are useful as buffer states, they maintain their own defenses, and I believe they attract less attention from the Shogun (if you have already caught his attention) than outright conquering the province.

Some Daimyo have low prosperity (wealth), poor resources, but have a fairly decent sized army that could be a hassle to conquer. These are the ones I sometimes make my vassal.

[Aklis]

I conquered Shikoku as Chosokabe, and after defeating the Miyoshi army at Awa, they wanted peace. I made a counter-offer for them to become my vassals and, voila!

[Heliocon]

Well as the southern green clan (sorry cant remember name) I vassalised the purple after taking one of their cities because everyone elseo n the island decided to attack me! Even the white/red clan which I had a military access indef both ways, trade treaty, AND marriage with they out of the blue attacked me. So after defeating purples main army, under pressure from 3 AI (6 provinces vs my 2) total I vassalised the purple since I didnt have the man power to divert a army, even a small army to take their castle as I was and still am fighting for my life with incoming stack after stack of enemies! Now the vassal/purple had crap land anyway, I get 100g from him per turn and trade etc.

BUT - he refuses to declare war on my enemis, in fact he refuses to even trade embargo my enemies! Actually more accurately, he refuses to do anything at all that I ask/demand him to... So your my vassal and you are trading with an enemy who is invading me? Jeez thanks...

[MajorStoffer]

Vassals are the only kind of ally which will actually stick with you for a notable amount of time once the Realm Divide fires. They'll still betray you, but in my Takeda game, my Imagawa vassals, who had managed to take about 4-5 provinces for themselves, stuck with me for about 12 turns past Realm Divide. Thankfully, they had been so ground down by fighting the various other minor clans they were quite easy to just walk over.

I do, admittedly, find it a little odd how everyone ends up backstabbing you with that event, even vassals. But that's another matter entirely.

[themoob]

Vassals are the only kind of ally which will actually stick with you for a notable amount of time once the Realm Divide fires. They'll still betray you, but in my Takeda game, my Imagawa vassals, who had managed to take about 4-5 provinces for themselves, stuck with me for about 12 turns past Realm Divide. Thankfully, they had been so ground down by fighting the various other minor clans they were quite easy to just walk over.

I do, admittedly, find it a little odd how everyone ends up backstabbing you with that event, even vassals. But that's another matter entirely.

What difficulty are you playing on?

I'm playing normal difficulty, and even after the Realm Divide event, my 3 loyal allies and 4 vassals who help me control half of Japan are still on my side.

[Raimeken]

The Yamanouchi (vassals of Uesugi at start of game) is a good buffer state between me and Takeda/Hojo

[Feldspar]

I personally will conquer almost everyone, except for a few specific clans whihc I like to vassal, depending on what clan I'm playing as.

for example I'm playing as Oda, Nobunaga currently is Daimyo and I have the Tokugawa as my vassal as well as the Asai, everyone else dies for the most part.

I like vassaling the major clans sometimes just to feel more dominant. Kinda of like Aria & Patriarch.. for those of you who play mass effect 2.

[aeoleron9]

As Date I've already made two vassals and is in the middle of making Uesugi one too(by reviving them)

I'm getting mixed results. Partly cause the lower income, which is really taking a drain on my treasury. Also the AI is not smart enough to plan their buildings that well, for example Uesugi insists on building temples when they need dojos and samurais to repel the constant Takeda harassment. Yeah temples are their thing but still. After they died twice from Takeda you'd think they'd learn.

I'm planning to help them take back the castle (again) and build some proper recruiting facilities for them, that way they might survive more than 2 turns. :/

[Billie Joe]

when you make a clan your vassal does its territory still count as one of yours when talking about the campaign objectives eg take Kyoto and have 40 provinces, does it count as one of the 40 provinces?

[wolfshart79]

when you make a clan your vassal does its territory still count as one of yours when talking about the campaign objectives eg take Kyoto and have 40 provinces, does it count as one of the 40 provinces?

Yes they count for your total...that said I found them more trouble then they are worth after the realm divide, always have to gift them money so they don't backstab you.

[Dodge]

Well as the southern green clan (sorry cant remember name)

You like to really immerse yourself into the game eh?

[Becephalus]

Don't forget that you can trade with your vassals

This, they are the only way to sustain trade after realm divide. If you are a trade dependent economy you need vassals or your econ will tank at realm divide.

[themoob]

Hmm, even on normal, after a little bit, all my vassals are turning against me... which makes vassalage kind of pointless.

[Becephalus]

Hmm, even on normal, after a little bit, all my vassals are turning against me... which makes vassalage kind of pointless.

Sounds like you aren't using the diplomacy system. I have had very few turn against me. Make trade agreements, don't do stuff to piss them off, make sure to join them in their wars, and have them join yours, et cetera.

[hitokiri2486]

This, they are the only way to sustain trade after realm divide. If you are a trade dependent economy you need vassals or your econ will tank at realm divide.

THIS! Especially if you play the Shimazu. I didn't do this when I became Shogun, and so I had to ignore the giant bear in the room (Uesugi) and take out the smaller daimyo quickly in order to get some vassals and produce some desperately needed income.