The Tokugawa Campaign Guide

[Buckethead]

I completed my Tokugawa Campaign on Hard. It would of been competed about 6 years earlier but when I captured Kyoto, all my vassals in the east got the realm divide effect again. So I had to ship my armies back over there to crush them again

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Grouchio]

Does somebody here have a very, very good guide on what to do as the tokugawa? And who are the imagawa?

[lekvidator]

i played for Tokugawa on hard, it was not very easy, but i completed it in 1575. Main goal here is to crush Oda, find good allies, for me it was Saito, Hojo and Takeda (they played in my game as wall, between me and my enemies) and capture at least 2 trade posts with full stack of trade ships, then declare war on imagawa (in my game they have declared war on me) and capture their stronghold with library wich boost researching greatly. Then i build up about 3 full Stack Armies and march on Kyoto, cuz Kyoto build up good allready and i don't have to build all these buildings in my provinces i gathered good samurai army with backup of ashigaru and conquerd 40 provinces, hardest enemies for me was Oda in beggining, and many minor clans that opossed my shogunate.

[zachattack]

I seemed to have gotten lucky with the Oda.

First try on Tokugawa, hard, with All in one/Darthmod on:

1) I took my army and attacked the oda army. I destroyed it easily as I outnumbered them.
2) I got call to arms from that so I recruited 3 units at my town
3) Disregarded my metsuke because bribing would cost too much and would only have 20% chance

Turn 2
4) Pulled my army and the three new units and the general in my town up to attack Owari when I run into a second army. I cannot do anything and am outnumbered, so I end my turn.
5) Oda attacks me with his army and with some lucky reinforcement placement I barely beat him, with my army battered. However now his castle is unguarded so I quickly take Owari

That's all I've done so far but it may be interesting for people to learn from?

PS: except for capturing Owari, I fight all my battles on the field. Don't let the crud autoresolve bite you in the ass

Oh and I didn't get out of this completely perfectly. My Daimyo died in battle so now his wife is the Daimyo as Ieyasu is still 3 years old... haaha. I adopted my general.

This definitely is a difficult campaign though. I want to expand and destroy Saito and Kiso but I can't until Imagawa attack me, but I can't attack Imagawa as they are allied with Hojo and Takeda. No way!

[nobody]

even easier way. let satomi have owari. on 2nd turn delcare war on imagawa storm it with all ur troops, do that for the other imawa province. By turn 5 I have 3 provinces. The problem though on legendary is how to deal with hojo and takeda, they always declare war on me and won't ally me or just betray me

[Grouchio]

For some reason, I tried the approach and retreat strategy, but the Oda then follow me and get wiped out as a result by the Saito. This is on easy, Radious mods included.

[Cruzz]

It's kinda weird how high the AI players value movement rights in your territory.
(Legendary, using TheHedge's Campaign AI though not sure if it actually changes the values AIs are willing to pay)
Imagawa - 600 koku at turn 1
Saito - 450 koku at turn 1
Kitabatake - 2000 koku at turn 2 (after I took Owari)
Takeda - 4500 koku at turn 10 (after they took Kiso and I had taken Mino from Saito)

Guess I should check if the vanilla AI also pays out this much.

[Heartfire]

When using the approach and retreat strategy you have to make sure of two things:

1) (For the most easily reproduced version) When you retreat, your stack must stay in Oda territory. This is done best by moving south of the Oda stack (In Owari) then moving as close as you can to it. When you retreat, your stack should head for somewhere near the harbor, and the Oda should go back into their castle.

2) (For the more difficult to reproduce) You have to place your stack so perfectly so that the Oda have enough movement points to come after you, but not actually make it into your territory (meaning they can't use the roads when chasing you). It's difficult but it will result in the Oda having a stack left when Saito takes their capital next turn. The Oda will respond by steamrolling Owari and Mino back into their possession.

[HawkDreams]

I think I saw a post by Lusted in another thread that mentioned leaving the province totally undefended and going for an all-in attack on Owari in turn 1. Something about 'sometimes, it works'. Going to try this tonight.

I did not find Jack's post, but out of maybe 100 attempts, only once have I managed to get Owari and I cannot for the life of me duplicate it!

HOWEVER, this does not mean this is an impossible clan! I love the Tokugawa. Yeah, I do realize it is mostly because it is a name I know, not just in being familiar, but studied in the past. Whatever the reason I am prejudiced and determined! LOL

Most everyone's post on the Tokugawa is of frustration. This is one of the best and most powerful clans on the map and the opening is correct in that being a vassal of Imagawa can be a blessing. This is also the only clan that will even come close to playing my personal tactics from the previous TW games. Just keep in mind, strategy guides are exactly that, a guide! No two peoples games will play the same as we all see everything from different perspectives. The game is so heavily scripted though that two people can run the near exact same game through mimicing anothers exact moves and decisions. However CA built the randomizer for running the percentages they did a crap job as the math is almost hard core without variable. Whereas in previous TW games you could rerun all of your battles on auto and come up with differing final results in every single repeat, in S2TW the results will continually remain the same +/- very few casualties. The only way to actually influence these outcomes is through using diplomacy and your agents to their full potential.

Tokugawa... Taking Owari is really kind of irrelevant though your core strategy will run differently in both cases. For this step, lets divide into "A" Owari taken and "B" Owari ignored or as addition to "A".

A- If you take Owari, do yourself a favor. When you complete each turn before you end your turn, open diplomacy and donate any remaining funds up to 100 to the Hattori. It only works if you give them something every single turn!!! This will keep them from over running Owari and then your home.
NOTE:This is not the only way, just the easiest no brainer way of manipulating the politices I have found yet.

B- Ignore Owari after defeating the border army and start concentrating on building your economy or follow "A" as a base before "B". Recruit cheap troops the first few turns and then be careful not to over recruit your economy once you feel you ca protect yourself. Send out trade fleets of 9 traders and one bow ship( I actually send one trader and one bow ship until they hold a trade point and then send the 9:1 stack to take and hold while sending the original 1:1 ships on to find another point.

Watch your map! It may take more than a few years, but you actually have many options along the way. Rather than tell you how to play, lets make some suggestions instead and let you figure it out for yourself in the details as that is so much more frustrating and rewarding at the very same time!

Possible suggestions:
1)Keep a cheep bow ship in port with one hero general and 9 troops onboard. Watch for rebellions and rush in to take those provinces fast!
2)If you did not take Owari, use the same penny bribe system with Imagawa until you get military access and then dog the Imagawa forces as they attack staying just out of range as reinforcements waiting to step in and take any town Imagawa sieges.
3)Be completely patient and wait on Takeda to break with Imagawa and then give them 2 seasons and rush them with everything you can muster. Do not stop advancing until you have Hojo as either blood kin vassal through marriage or they are wiped out. Let provinces rebel along the way if you need to, but keep advancing!!! You can go back and mop up once Imagawa, Tadeka, and Hojo are wiped out or under control.

From here Tokugawa plays like any other clan...

[Heartfire]

Good post, but I would recommend finding a way to break the alliance of Takeda + Hojo with Imagawa. At least find a way to break Takeda's. If you are able to break Imagawa's alliances they then will attack you.

If you are trying to bait them into attacking you, it is much easier when you have Owari, but this also sometimes places you at war with the Hattori + more.

It takes a lot of balls but one way I was able to get the Imagawa to attack me was disbanding my entire army except my generals and two units of Bow Ashigaru. The Imagawa attacked, and I used my massive coffers to bribe the Imagawa army, instantly giving me the advantage and sealing their fate. Also: I had broken the alliance with Takeda, and as soon as Imagawa attacked, I formed my own alliance with them. I wiped the Hojo off Honshu, but interestingly they had taken Sado (that small gold island north of the Uesugi starting point) so they remained alive for awhile.

[YassirX]

Tokugawa Beginning (on legendary):
First Turn: Give Imagawa military acess for 600 koku, now you have 2600 koku. Use this money to bribe the army near your capital. End turn.
Second Turn: Oda gets destroyed by Saito (everytime). You declare war on Imagawa, take the south-eastern province. Build 2 units (depending on your playstile) at your capital. End turn.
Third Turn: Move your army to the next Imagawa province, let your nearly recruited units be stationed at the eastern province and remove taxes. End turn.
Fourth Turn: Destroy Imagawa, your next opponent is hojo.

[BohemianStalker]

I play Tokugawa on legendary
never played any other difficulty level except hard for 5 hours to check the game aspects. And I take Owari first turn on legendary.
This is not being written to impress you. But you are giving bad advices, dont ever destroy imagawa on legendary. It will give you -25diplomatic relations with all clans forever! It brings lot of pain late game..seriously, I tried it . I havent beaten the game yet, my problem is not legendary my problem is my notebook...I can play only on lowest settings and In later game I am unable to control 2v2stacks fights. Last time on legendaty I had fight with 4fullstack samurai-only enemy army..I had 3 stack army one samurai, one ashigaru(with ashi specialist general) and one hybrid.Even though game limits the number of troops its my end. My notebook almost went up in flames..need new computer and I will finish tokugawa on legendary hehe. Here is picture..I may write you first 5 turn guide for your setup if more people are interested.


What you want is Owari FIRST(1) turn! and TWO(2) generals on level Two(2)

I am playing VANILLA(original developed oficially patched) version, my personal opinion is that mods are making game easier(I dont want that, Its ok if you play with mods but legendary vanilla is not legendary modded.)

It can be done everytime and its easy trust me :-)


if picture doesnt show up http://img809.imageshack.us/f/2011041100004.jpg/

[Heartfire]

While you're right that attacking the Imagawa will get you a massive diplomatic relations debuff, that is usually not what you should do anyway. The Imagawa will eventually attack you, and they will try to take your lands.

The easiest way to get them to do this is to break their alliances with the Takeda and Hojo. Offer the Takeda and the Hojo a trade contract and a decent amount of cash in exchange for their breaking of the alliances. Hell, if you have to, give them Ieyasu, your son and heir. After this is done, the Imagawa should go to war with one of these clans, of with you, more likely with you. At this point, you either blow them away, or use ninjas to collapse their infrastructure from the inside out.

[YassirX]

I betrayed imagawa in turn 2 and I had no problems with my campaign. You gain +10 diplomatic relations trough faction skills and you can skill even more in the civil tree. I had no problem to get alllies. But Realm Divide destroyed my game as I was not prepared...

[Grouchio]

You can exchange back hostages that you've given, right?

[Drowsy]

You can exchange back hostages that you've given, right?

A hostage should return to you after 8 seasons, even if the faction you made the deal with is destroyed before those seasons passed.

[BohemianStalker]

While you're right that attacking the Imagawa will get you a massive diplomatic relations debuff, that is usually not what you should do anyway. The Imagawa will eventually attack you, and they will try to take your lands.

The easiest way to get them to do this is to break their alliances with the Takeda and Hojo. Offer the Takeda and the Hojo a trade contract and a decent amount of cash in exchange for their breaking of the alliances. Hell, if you have to, give them Ieyasu, your son and heir. After this is done, the Imagawa should go to war with one of these clans, of with you, more likely with you. At this point, you either blow them away, or use ninjas to collapse their infrastructure from the inside out.

I have tried many starts on legendary to see what is best and while what you are suggesting sounds reasonable(as it may seems) it is not. The Imagawa, in most of my games with taking owari first turn, did not attack me, because they have problems with satomi(I hope I mean the right clan, the one down, south) I was vassal even at 1570 and I had 25 provincies..then my ntbk refused to work and I had to quit and wait for new comp.

Waiting for someone to take out Imagawa=suicude You cant seize new teritories, you cant make allies..you cant do nothing and as you sit and turtle, others are gaining strengh and you cant afford that, speed is essential.

All of these people and guides saying hey take imagawa, I think its wrong..and also many people say.. Tokugawa is easy..I think its the one of the hardest challenges ingame. You wipe out Imagawa? Fine but you have -25 for all the time..always..you try that and go for realm divide...not only you gonna get -40..it will be -65. Which will kill you. Your allies will more frequently bacsktab you, clans from other side of map will declare war on you and while you are sitting and saying...hey Besso with 20 provinces is far far away..one day they come at your doorsttep like they came to mine and will throw 4 full stack armies at you. Attacking Imagawa=wrong idea, only thing that can prove me wrong is save of unmodified game won on legendary level with attacking Imagawa style.

My play is
1.turn=Owari
2-4.tuen=Let Saito declare war on me=take Saitos provinces
5.turn=I am in middle of everything somebody will declare war on me..take him, last time it was hattori. I pwned him. Took his provinces gg.

The only time I provoke Imagawa is if you have secured your borders(allies on atleast 3/4 sides and the rest one is atleast neutral with defensive or friendly character). By provoke I mean using ninjas and breaking trade agreement=what you just described. But it is really good to be his vassal and try to provoke different clans..why? because you will have almost throughout entire game an ally on wich you can rely and he will join all of your wars! Other clans will also attack you less as AI knows that attacking vassal state means also to go into war with senior state.

Dont mean to offend you sir, I just have different opinion based on many tokuagawa legendary games :-) Will try to finish this game on autoresolve style..it will be propably hell but will have to do

[alexwilliams]

I agree with you but I was able to destroy the Imagawa, but then I had another clan take me by surprise by launching an attack against Mikawa. I didn't stand a chance and lost my daimyo in the process. Decided to start over after that.

[Silius Saurus]

One thing that was crucial to my last winning campaign as the Tokugawa was the use of marriages. I married one of my generals and Ieyasu to two daughters from clans on my western flank - the Kitabatake and the Tsutsui (it also works w/ the Hattori). Even when I did not have an alliance with them (being a vassal at the time) they didn't attack, though they outnumbered my heavily and could have wiped me out. After the Hojo killed off the Imagawa I was able to solidify alliances with them; and the most fun of that whole campaign was the see-saw battle with the Takeda.

Playing a campaign as the Shimazu now, but I have to say that so far my favorite clan to play is the Tokugawa. You need to be a real plotter. Fun!

[DeMolay]

What is interesting in the Tokugawa campaign is to reenact the historical Oda-Tokugawa friendship and alliance that allowed them to become so powerful .

It's quite difficult cause it means you have to defeat Oda in the first 2-3 turns , then when his army is destroyed , agree peace with him . Later on , you have to gather cash to make Imagawa break alliance with Hojo and Takeda . When this is done , Imagawa will be isolated and may be attacked or will attack you , in any case , if he doesn't , just accept the" -50" betrayed alliance and crush Imagawa , on the same turn get alliance with Oda . Later on , what is really important is to send 2 full stacks of trade ship on nodes for the money . Anyway if you manage to do that , Oda usually becomes powerful and your best friend , and that's quite satisfying to achieve because the challenge is very hard