Date Campaign Guide

[flashy01]

One thing to remember is that the Date remote area gives you only access to 2 clans for a while for diplomacy which is bad. You need to build a couple of ships and sail down on either coast for trading and diplomacy. A lot of times if you miss working the diplomacy as Date you will find out that the Takeda/Hojo alliance can become very powerful, which means if you attack Hojo, Takeda is at war with you too which you cant afford fighting 2 powerful clans at the same time.

In other TW games you could ignore the diplomacy and still win, with Shogun 2 you most likely need to work the diplomacy to your advantage. Example become a trade partner with either Takeda and Hojo and after a few years ask one of them to break their alliance etc...

[toluas]

Sado you can leave for last.

I have to disagree; as much of a pain in the butt it is to conquer it, I found Sado's gold mines a huge asset, making me a lot of cash - meaning more brave Date Samurai to conquer my neighbors...

[aeoleron9]

Yeah I really recommend going for Sado before any big conquests in the mainland, the econ boost is great. Especially since the longer you leave them alone the bigger the army they'll have, so kill them asap.

[Inhuman One]

Well I myself was part of that Takeda/Hojo alliance. I even convinced the Takeda to turn on the Hojo once the Hojo captured Kyoto, and then we took the Hojo apart together. Afterwards the Takeda declared war on me, but seeing how I captured most Hojo provinces while the Takeda where mostly fighting the armies of Hojo, I had lots of money for troops and controlled about half the map.

[erebrus]

I have to disagree; as much of a pain in the butt it is to conquer it, I found Sado's gold mines a huge asset, making me a lot of cash - meaning more brave Date Samurai to conquer my neighbors...

What difficulty did you play? Cos I found that at higher levels of difficulty, if I was to pursue Sado early, I'd be invaded by two factions....Hence not being able to focus on it early. When I have the 12 provinces, I don't care if they have a full stack, cos it will be a stack of ashigaru

[Mieko]

Here's my Date strategy:
- In the beginning I conquered the very North of Japan. Iwate, Sendai,...
- I got that far as to war the Hojo and was allied with Takeda in the meantime so that those guys wouldn't attack me
- When I had the Hojo, I turned against Takeda and finally had the eastern territories under control
- When I conquered Mino and Owari, I was declared war by shogun and (new) allies
- First, I defended my front line around Owari, Mino and Wakasa. They put everything into fight but I didn't have a stretched front line. It was pretty easy to control with Mino and Owari.
- After I had beaten all other clans' armies there, I sendt mine to finally conquer Kyoto and rushed through the remaining country without problems

I played on Normal because on harder modes, doin any diplomacy is impossible.

btw: I consider it a good strategy if you weaken the Takeda through buying their cities with Metsuke. Some cities I got that way and could beat them faster and easier this way.

[TdM]

Have to agree with this. I've concentrated on securing territory in the mainland on hard/hard and just as I was about to attack Sado, Takeda turned against me (from a strong alliance) and started attacking my western borders. Now I was at war with everyone around me, my economy collapsed because most of my economy was coming from trade from Takeda and I couldn't invade Sado anymore because of the stacks flooding in from the West.

I've managed to damage Takeda through a war of attrition but unfortunately this weakening of Takeda (he's still strong though) has lead to Hojo capturing most of the map so even if I manage to finally break Takeda I'm going to get slaughtered by Hojo.

I think my mistakes were:
1) Not taking Sado early
2) Relying on trade partners who were neighbours
3) Not investigating far flung trade opportunities
4) Treating the diplomacy as it was in past TW games

As I have said elsewhere on the forum, my belief is that if you are relying on a neighbour (say Takeda) strongly to support your armies for an invasion elsewhere, they will let you build up and then pull the rug out from under you by breaking the trade agreement just as you are ready to attack. This wrecks your economy forcing you to downsize your army and threatens your borders forcing you to stop expansion and concentrate on defence.

The only reason I survived the initial betrayal was that I risked public disorder and just took my armies on an immediate pre-emptive strike on the Takeda border regions. This allowed me to stabilise my economy to an extent and keep most of my army (not to mention the fact that I killed Takeda Shingen, his son and a couple of generals in an epic battle).

Outcome of this effort? I'm at a stale mate with heavy losses on both sides and have been for years with no hope of declaring peace.

[erebrus]

Have to agree with this. I've concentrated on securing territory in the mainland on hard/hard and just as I was about to attack Sado, Takeda turned against me (from a strong alliance) and started attacking my western borders. Now I was at war with everyone around me, my economy collapsed because most of my economy was coming from trade from Takeda and I couldn't invade Sado anymore because of the stacks flooding in from the West.

I've managed to damage Takeda through a war of attrition but unfortunately this weakening of Takeda (he's still strong though) has lead to Hojo capturing most of the map so even if I manage to finally break Takeda I'm going to get slaughtered by Hojo.

I think my mistakes were:
1) Not taking Sado early
2) Relying on trade partners who were neighbours
3) Not investigating far flung trade opportunities
4) Treating the diplomacy as it was in past TW games

As I have said elsewhere on the forum, my belief is that if you are relying on a neighbour (say Takeda) strongly to support your armies for an invasion elsewhere, they will let you build up and then pull the rug out from under you by breaking the trade agreement just as you are ready to attack. This wrecks your economy forcing you to downsize your army and threatens your borders forcing you to stop expansion and concentrate on defence.

The only reason I survived the initial betrayal was that I risked public disorder and just took my armies on an immediate pre-emptive strike on the Takeda border regions. This allowed me to stabilise my economy to an extent and keep most of my army (not to mention the fact that I killed Takeda Shingen, his son and a couple of generals in an epic battle).

Outcome of this effort? I'm at a stale mate with heavy losses on both sides and have been for years with no hope of declaring peace.

My conclusions are somewhat different. Takeda remained my ally through all the game and actually it was a very reliable ally, breaking other alliances to stay one my side. It also helped that I got a marriage alliance and after the divide once in a while i paid them a bit to keep them happy.
I do agree not to rely on trade though, but I was making enough to field 4-5 field stacks, minimal navy and still get 8-10k a year...so thats fine.
Going for the trade points is nice, but they are too far and they will be hard to support and maintain from such a long distance.

[Skellig]

I'm currently retrying my H/H Date.

Originally, I had a Takeda alliance and I launched a naval invasion on Hattori via Echizen. Landed and swiftly took 4 strongholds within 6 turns and beat back 4 different counter attacking forces. Then made peace with the Hattori who accepted and immediately afterwards Hojo declared war on me. Takeda broke alliance (and got promptly slaughtered by the Hojo) and I found my trade lanes hampered by a growing land and naval Hojo presence. A few turns later, the Mori declared war and crippled my remaining trade.

With my main army still in the middle of securing a foothold between Mori (luckily I had a few clans in the way) and the Hojo (who sent stacks in all directions to get at me), I was pressured on all flanks. Dwindling money in the treasurer and lack of trade saw me struggling to beat back invasion forces and take regions.

It felt like way too much work overseeing the multi front war. I might have overcome it but I decided that it would have been a long struggle and I probably won't beat the main campaign. So I restarted.

This is what I've done in the first 20 turns:

- Bulked up my brother's army and defeated Date Terumune immediately
- Trade Port as immediate construction
- Built bow ships (to send immediately down the coat to occupy the trade node)
- Started researching Chi
- Sent army to Mogami boundary
- As soon as the Trade Port is built, build trade ships en masse
- Within the next 15 turns, crushed the Mogami and build up two standing armies
- Within the next 15 turns, sent trade ships to all the nodes
- Built Monasteries and Sake dens for my Monks and Ninjas
- Engage with trade and diplomacy with most clans but allied with none
- Used every opportunity to heighten mastery of chi or bushido (when you get the decision of which path you want to excel at for 4 turns I'd chosen Chi and Tea Ceremony)

Now it's turn 23 and I have Wako Pirates threatening my trade ships but I have 3 Brunes and 2 Bows bearing down on them.

I'm planning on inciting rebellion, breaking alliance and conquering Uesegi.

Hopefully this will give me the economic legs for invasions. Also, I'm trying to use my generals as much as possible by splitting them from one another as 'reinforcement armies' for the main fighter. A little risky with my Daimyo but this will level them all up quicker.

[aeoleron9]

I'm currently retrying my H/H Date.
(cut)

I got a similar experience as you in my first attempt. At first it seemed a nice strat to have allies to protect you on the mainland, leaving you free to make naval incursions deep into enemy territory. However I soon realized I don't have a very secure economy and land base, and my tactical strikes were soon overwhelmed by the surrounding AI. Worse, my allies backstab me while my forces are on the frontlines. So IMO a steady methodic push down south is the better strat.

[Skellig]

I'm still undecided with my army composition. Had a 4 turn bonus to unit cost (Katana Samurai's dropped to 500 koku) and I went on a spending spree to buy them up before the timer went out.

Now I have 6 Katanas and and I'm thinking, 'I don't need you guys for another 6-10 turns.' My peasants have always done me proud in my previous campaign but I'm making so much money now...

Thinking of a 15 unit stack army:

1 General (+ other generals as 'reinforcement armies')
2 Katanas
2 Yari Samurai
6 Yari Ashigaru
4 Bow Ashigaru

3 stacks of 15 units with 2 or 3 'bonus' units when needed(cavalry or extra bowmen) - I didn't use my No-Daichi much but I might try later.

[Zaraki]

Is there any tips to getting Date Masamune??? He suppose to be the eldest son of Date Teramune but he never got born no luck and on my 4th play through.. Maybe I need to stop killing the mogami clan?(Masamune mother was from the Mogami clan)

Sorry to asking a stupid question but I consider him very important it why I even play Date =P

[Mieko]

I have the same problem
Whats my unified Nippon worth without Date Masamune himself being Shogun?
(WHAT!? His mother was from that arch enemy Mori clan? arrh, I'll kill them!)

I think it's luck if you get him or another Terumune son. I got two girls. So keep on playing DATE

[Hafnium]

I started a Date campaign yesterday, and the game is constantly kicking me in the nuts. I've started up several campaigns (all normal) to try out different things, haven't finished one yet, and this one will never work out, I fear. It began well enough with me taking the province to the west, but Haketeyama (or something) decided to snatch up all the provinces in the area and declare war on me, while also killing my allies (Jinbo the most recent). On top of this no one wants to trade with me, only one tiny clan far to the west. The rest hate or ignore me for no reason, at best I can PAY them dearly to trade with me, but that's kind of counter-productive..

So, I planned to take Honma's island away from them, and sent a large army that was barely enough to beat their 3/4 stack, 3-5xp army.(must have excellent training facilities since they had relaxed for the whole game). That helped a little with the economy and I sent some of the remaining troops back to the mainland to join my Daimyo and attempt to seize provinces. That's when Haketeyama (bleh) went nuts and sent armies after me, took my no. 2 province and baited me at our border with a full stack of all samurai (mostly katana plus some yari) and a few Ashigaru archers. Whenever I tried marching my forces the other way, they went towards my home-town, forcing me to go back. Now I've finally amassed a full stack (after sacking that pesky town they took), but it's 50/50 odds at the moment whether I can beat their infuriating army, hopefully my many archers will rip apart their katana samurai. It's been like 10-15 years and I haven't gotten anywhere, jeez..

Edit: To clarify, my other campaigns are turning out fine. Shimazu has been a cakewalk, Uesugi and Oda are challenging but progressive, and Hattori has been slow and steady. This one campaign hates me apparently.

[BobTheShogun]

I just hit Realm Divide as the Date on normal, and things have been going pretty well, except for one little thing. I'm allied with the Satake, and my territory is essentially "wrapped" around theirs (I'll try to get a screenshot later). The problem is, Realm Divide is going to make betrayal an inevitability, and they can strike at my territory from many directions.

I'm debating whether to launch a preemptive attack or just try to bribe them to remain allies.

[luckybeaver]

I've played 3 Date Campaigns, all on normal (the 2 extra were just experiments to see if I could get Masamune, it didn't work ) In all three I've found the game quite easy, going to have to upgrade to hard. The first campaign I was a bit noobish, I had trouble with Takeda for a bit, I was foolishly accepting their peace treaties everytime I smashed their stacks only to be invaded again 3 turns later when they've regrouped. My economy was pretty low but I wasn't broke, I had little to no allies and no trade at all.

The second campaign was completely different, rather than rapidly expand I simply took both the Mogami lands as soon as I could, and Miyagi I took a couple turns later. However, rather than move south any further I simply sat with my 4 provinces and built up my economy and my provinces. I build two small units of trade ships and streamed each down the coasts of japan so i could encounter all the clans and I quickly set up trade with as many as I could, once that was done I captured as many trade nodes as possible. Around turn 40-50ish I had around 60k with a steady income of 15k a turn. I had found particularly good loyal allies in the Mori (which dominated that area around the islands of Chosokabe and Shimazu) and the newly emergent Tokugawa which quickly captured the provinces of Totomi, Suruga and Owari.

At this point the Satomi and the Satake clans had captured all of the area between Miyagi and the Shinano mountains, Hojo and Imagawa and Takeda were eliminated by a Satomi/ Hatano alliance (the Hatano controled around 12 provinces from their starting area all the way to Echigo- they were the dominant force for most of the campaign). I gradually expanded into Satomi and Satake, eventually eliminating the Satake and squeezing the Satomi in a 2 front assault with the Tokugawa. While I was planning on invading Echigo and the northern provinces by sea from Sado there was a Uesugi uprising in which they overthrew the Hatano overlords and re-established themselves as a independent clan. I was hesitant to ally with them simply because I wanted the north as an outlet for further expansion but when the Tokugawa allied with them and they repeatedly offered alliance with payments attatched I accepted. I just ended up landing by Noto instead and conquered from there.

By the time of realm divide I had conquered all the east (with my the Tokugawa having around 7 provinces and the Uesugi with 3 or so) and the Mori had around 8-9ish provinces further west, the Hatano were all but destroyed, the Chosokabe were doing nothing on their island, the Shimazu had actually managed to retake the entire western island after a rebellion against the Mori in which they re-emerged (they were offering me peace treaties at the cost of around 20k koku, it gave me a good laugh). Even during realm divide my alliances stood firm for around 30ish turns; I could have had them continue through constant payment to keep them happy but at this point I wanted my provinces so I let the relations slide. First had the Uesugi betray me in which I promptly bribed and fought through their pitiful holdings, shortly thereafter the Tokugawa did the same. I made both Vassals so I could keep them as trade partners and not have to suffer the diplomacy penalties of realm divide. Lastly the Mori declared war on me, but by then I had all my full stacks on my fronts, tons of money in the bank and 40 provinces for the win. It was around 1581/2 so like, 150ish turns.

It was fun, but I looking for more of a challenge, I'm playing through Oda, Tokugawa and Takeda campaigns on normal as well, I'm still testing out diplomacy, I haven't realyl utilized the hostage and marriage alliances yet, most of my alliances are simply based on trade and gradual trust.

[Palandiell]

Hey, trying to play Date and it seem to be impossible on hard. I just manage to get the four north eastern provinces and then I have 2 big clans declearing war on me! now it was the hojo (8 provinces) and takeda (9) with a vassal army (just one province, far away, but he sent a full stack!) gang up on me. and the north isnt really that rich. it is really hard to get anything done! any tips?

[somrak]

Hey, trying to play Date and it seem to be impossible on hard. I just manage to get the four north eastern provinces and then I have 2 big clans declearing war on me! now it was the hojo (8 provinces) and takeda (9) with a vassal army (just one province, far away, but he sent a full stack!) gang up on me. and the north isnt really that rich. it is really hard to get anything done! any tips?

It's cakewalk on normal, just started on Hard and it's very different.
1 question: on normal, I captured and mantained all 4 trade nodes in the west. Did you try that on Hard? It was pretty irrational from the enemies to let my vulnerable trade routes in peace even during war time.

1 tip for the beginning: attack the rebel army in turn 1 without adding your damyio to the small stack, otherwise they'll retreat and you have to hunt them down around the river for ages.

[gonzo90806]

i am playing on hard and long campaign. I suggest playing on long campaign. Playing on short is tough because you do not have a lot of time.

1. What i did was take the trade nod. I think I had about 5-6 trade ships on the trade nod.
Build 2 bow ships. Send 1 along the northern coastline and 1 along the southern coastline.
2. Try to encounter all the clans so you can setup trade agreements.
3. Build up your ports so you can have more trades.
4. Be willing to pay some gold for clans to accept trade agreements.
5. Research the CHI that gives 10+ diplomatic relations.

7. take the 3-4 provinces in the northeast (forgot the names).
8. Try to ally with one of the dominant clans near your borders. It was hojo and takeda for my campaign. I allied with the hojo. It will give ya time to build up your economy and army before your allied clan cancels thier alliance with ya.

Ill post some screenshots of my campaign later on. To give ya a idea of what I did. My campaign on hard is going well so far.

[Hafnium]

i am playing on hard and long campaign. I suggest playing on long campaign. Playing on short is tough because you do not have a lot of time.

1. What i did was take the trade nod. I think I had about 5-6 trade ships on the trade nod.
Build 2 bow ships. Send 1 along the northern coastline and 1 along the southern coastline.
2. Try to encounter all the clans so you can setup trade agreements.
3. Build up your ports so you can have more trades.
4. Be willing to pay some gold for clans to accept trade agreements.
5. Research the CHI that gives 10+ diplomatic relations.
6. Build a master weaponsmith which will make your archers really powerful.
7. take the 3-4 provinces in the northeast (forgot the names).
8. Try to ally with one of the dominant clans near your borders. It was hojo and takeda for my campaign. I allied with the hojo. It will give ya time to build up your economy and army before your allied clan cancels thier alliance with ya.

Ill post some screenshots of my campaign later on. To give ya a idea of what I did. My campaign on hard is going well so far.

For some reason I had more difficulty getting trade agreements as Date than as anyone else, is the daimyo a jerk with minus in diplomacy?
Good advice, but about no. 6, doesn't weaponsmith give + to melee damage, why would archers benefit from that more than armour?