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Thread: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

  1. #1

    Default Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    When I first discovered that the S2TW demo was only using 1 core, I couldn't believe it. I thought it was a joke. 5 years with dual core's on the market and Creative assembly still can't get it right? Really?

    Dual core cpu's have been around since before 2007, yet CA still cannot figure out how to optimize there games for multi-core systems.

    Since the advent of dual core's and now quad core's, CA has been unable to properly support multi-core CPU's in there TW series of games and it's completely unacceptable. It's one thing for a first person shooter to neglect CPU optimization, but not a company who's entire reputation and fortune is built on a real time strategy series. A series which relies almost solely on Artificial intelligence.

    I find it totally ironic, seeing as RTS games tend to be very CPU intensive and you would expect the developers to give special attention to CPU optimization and making sure the game uses all available core's if it needs too.

    In a game that relies so heavily on AI, the CPU is one of the most important, if not the most important aspect of gaming when it comes to the TW series.

    On top of that, memory leaks have been an issue in almost every Total War game since Rome. It seem's no amount of memory is enough to please the TW games.

    I know people with system's that are off the charts, yet they can never run a TW game without lagging during large battles. Then they check task manager, only to find that there $600 Quad Core CPU isn't worth jack **** in Creative Assembly's eyes and the game is only using a single core.

    The truth is, a PC 3 years old should be able to run S2TW without dropping under 40FPS, but CA lacks the optimization skills neccesary to make it happen.

    Instead, we have people running Core i7's with GTX 580's and 8GB of RAM running NTW and the S2TW demo at 30FPS, sometimes less.

    And why the hell is DX11 being patched in? Did the CA team forget about DX11 half way through development and now there bum rushing to patch it in when the game comes out?
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Agreed mate - multi core has been out for ages!
    OPEN BATTLEFIELD CAPTURE POINTS AND IMPACT PUFFS HAVE GOT TO GO!
    REVERT INFANTRY THROWING PILAE TO ROME TW'S SYSTEM AS IT WAS PERFECT!

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Can't agree more.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Blom89 View Post
    When I first discovered that the S2TW demo was only using 1 core, I couldn't believe it. I thought it was a joke. 5 years with dual core's on the market and Creative assembly still can't get it right? Really?

    Dual core cpu's have been around since before 2007, yet CA still cannot figure out how to optimize there games for multi-core systems.

    Since the advent of dual core's and now quad core's, CA has been unable to properly support multi-core CPU's in there TW series of games and it's completely unacceptable. It's one thing for a first person shooter to neglect CPU optimization, but not a company who's entire reputation and fortune is built on a real time strategy series. A series which relies almost solely on Artificial intelligence.

    I find it totally ironic, seeing as RTS games tend to be very CPU intensive and you would expect the developers to give special attention to CPU optimization and making sure the game uses all available core's if it needs too.

    In a game that relies so heavily on AI, the CPU is one of the most important, if not the most important aspect of gaming when it comes to the TW series.

    On top of that, memory leaks have been an issue in almost every Total War game since Rome. It seem's no amount of memory is enough to please the TW games.

    I know people with system's that are off the charts, yet they can never run a TW game without lagging during large battles. Then they check task manager, only to find that there $600 Quad Core CPU isn't worth jack **** in Creative Assembly's eyes and the game is only using a single core.

    The truth is, a PC 3 years old should be able to run S2TW without dropping under 40FPS, but CA lacks the optimization skills neccesary to make it happen.

    Instead, we have people running Core i7's with GTX 580's and 8GB of RAM running NTW and the S2TW demo at 30FPS, sometimes less.

    And why the hell is DX11 being patched in? Did the CA team forget about DX11 half way through development and now there bum rushing to patch it in when the game comes out?
    Regarding DX11 - It was in the build given to reviewers, but CA removed it for now because they want to fine tune it some more.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Quote Originally Posted by skullman86 View Post
    Regarding DX11 - It was in the build given to reviewers, but CA removed it for now because they want to fine tune it some more.
    Isn't that very convenient?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    I agree that multi core support is not where it should be, but that goes for basically all game companies. I don't know what the cause or problem is with developers not quite being able to harness it correctly most of the time.

    I have the system you described (GTX 580, Core i7, etc) and I run Napoleon at a smooth 60fps (and more, but vsync'd) and the Shogun 2 demo at 60 fps as well.

    I also agree that DX11 being patched in sucks, but the sad truth is developers have deadlines and I'd rather they make the deadlines and have to patch in a minor thing like graphical options than be forced to push the game back and potentially lose publisher support or budget money due to it.

    We have a good game coming in Shogun 2, unlocked demo AI and lots of reviews/battle reports show it. There are some things that will need worked out, maybe some personal preference things people will mod, stuff like that.

    I'd advise you to just calm down and realize that life is not perfect and getting your blood pressure up over these things isn't helpful. If things are broken they will do what they can to be fixed and we can only hope they are fixed quickly in that case. I have confidence that they've been learning more coming into the new era of TW starting with Empire and all it's problems and will be able to make more efficient games and patch them up better/faster.

  7. #7
    Shabby_Ronin's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Only 20% of Steam users have DX11 cards, it's not that big a deal...but if they put out sloppy DX11 support at release, those 20% would be quite loud. Let it wait.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Well his main frustration was with multi-core support, and I agree completely on that.
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  9. #9
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    most of the problem is with the antiquated game engines used with todays games,

    Call Of Duty uses 2 cores its based off the Id Tech 3 which was released in 1999 base code structure is near 12 years old

    Elder Scrolls series, Net Immerse game engine *2002* used with morrowind was renamed Gamebryo and has been recycled to this day aka Skyrim is using Gamebryo again in a modded fashion to support new features its base code is 9 years old

    Unreal Engine 2.0 can reach and do the same things as UE3 and the optimizations in terms of multi threading is much the same, its been tweak upon tweak of the same base code for nearly 7-8 years now

    the A4 engines used in metro 2033 only uses 2 cores, in terms of optimizations it runs the same on a core 2 duo at 2ghz as it does an i7 980x at 4.4ghz

    The Stalker series with the X-ray engine it only uses 1 core,

    most of these engines can trace there coding back to before dual cores were even considered viable on the Consumer lvl.

    look at total war besides a few nifty graphics add ons the game still technically uses the same scripting based engine as it always has, they got better graphic fidelity but not much has changed, at its core it still functions exactly as the old engines did, with just tighter restrictions on modding.

    In general as of right now im sorry to say the coding world on PC hasnt really decided what method or form of multi threading is best, there is no one answer on how it should be done, because of this the current way code is written and used by todays hardware is stagnant if you will. Software always lags behind hardware, this will never change but the adoption of that hardware to better use said software is at an all time low, As the world of devices capable of surfing the web or running games gets ever larger, adopting all the different codes and scripting languages to run on the broadest range of hardware gets more more taxing. Now im not saying its excusable, I am a PC enthusiast i drop thousands a year on hardware just for fun and to tinker with. Id love to see better optimizations, but the PC's biggest strength is also its weakness, we are the largest install base of capable hardware in the world, but that capable hardware varies so much in terms of what it can do along with multiple OSes, various forms of Linux, Mac, XP, Vista, Win7, mobile OSes, etc etc. I know for a fact good multi-threading is hard to implement, and use properly but it can be done, good examples, Supreme Commander, (2 sucked) Resident Evil 5, Battlefield Bad Company2, in and age of hundreds of new games a year. Very few are truly advancing to new game engines, very few are adopting new standards or pushing boundries of technology. People can complain much as i do about it, But you cant change the fact every day the PC user base grows ever larger, and every day the gap between lowest common denominator and the best money can buy gets infinitely larger. That alone causes a massive number of problems in and of itself. In general i believe CA should get the lead out of there ass and spend a year or so working on multi threading and better AI, use the damn cpu to better equip the AI, with a set of tactics and responses, instead of pumping out half baked updates, but to think that way constantly servers no purpose and gets nothing done. It all is what it is, and as they say money talks and walks, and most here have bought or will buy Shogun II so in that sense your still rewarding them for staying with the old ways of how things are done. Overall i feel the game industry itself is stagnant, most ports from console to PC reek of piss poor port jobs and shoddy work, but then people buy the games and reward publishers and developers for these things, untill that changes your going to see most games using 2 cores and in general running worse or more problematic then there console counterparts. The problem itself is a vicious circle and it probably wont ever be broken.
    Last edited by Crazyeyesreaper; March 14, 2011 at 06:06 PM.
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  10. #10
    legate's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    The full version of shogun 2 will support dual and quad core computers, it was just the demo that didn't.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    i hope that is true..?

  12. #12
    Amazing Horse's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Considering systermrequirementslab told me I needed a quad core processor to even run Shogun, I think you're fine.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Quote Originally Posted by legate View Post
    The full version of shogun 2 will support dual and quad core computers, it was just the demo that didn't.
    Source?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Looking at a lot of dead bodies in the demo was a pain to me and when zooming into close large action the fps would drop to lower than 20s. On rarer occasions they would drop lower than 10!

    When there's not much happening the fps could go to over 90s.


    Not very good imo

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    Last edited by Miracles; March 14, 2011 at 06:13 PM.

  15. #15
    Dynamo11's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Blom89 View Post
    When I first discovered that the S2TW demo was only using 1 core, I couldn't believe it.
    Um, ETW and NTW had full support for dual cores so I dunno what's happening there.


  16. #16
    Brusilov's Avatar Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Quote Originally Posted by legate View Post
    The full version of shogun 2 will support dual and quad core computers, it was just the demo that didn't.
    Yes , I would hope so.

    I did read somewhere that the demo was hardly optimised.

    So, if the demo did not run smoothly on your computer don't worry yet. It may well run smoothly with the full version.

    So long as it does not go the way of the E:TW release - and that was a nightmare for some people. Personally, I only really sufferered from the 'insufficient video memory' and slow down in the later stages of a campaign - others had many problems.

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  17. #17
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    yea i had the your save games are corrupted start over douchebag, issue the first 6months of owning Empire lol
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyeyesreaper View Post
    yea i had the your save games are corrupted start over douchebag, issue the first 6months of owning Empire lol
    i left it for 6 months

    am enjoying it now although wont be playing it tomorrow i hope.

    p.s lets hope we at least get 2 cores and aa!!

    oh and i agree with most of what the op has said. i started off and shogun and it has been a "totalheadache" to get the kind of smoothness i want with a total war game. but in the long time it took me 2 do this i realised you will never get it perfect and that goes for any game (well ones like call of duty tend to be very well optmised).

    but yeah it does gripe me sometime the lack of optimisation. from being at over 100fps to then seeing dips to 40 does annoy you. however from first off i think shogun2 is running better for me than empire or napoleon ever did.

    fingers x.
    Last edited by Totalheadache; March 14, 2011 at 06:33 PM.

  19. #19
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    lol ill have AA i had it in the demo i was lucky and CCC override options worked, that said i hope it uses 4 cores or more lol so i can push the graphics settings to extremes
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  20. #20
    KittySN's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Fed up with Poor Multi-Core CPU Support

    Well I guess we'll fine out soon enough. I know the frustration. I've had a quad-core essentially since they've been released and my bottleneck in every Total War game has been the CPU. I can't even run Rome Total War in larger battles or huge without dropping frames.

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