New units suggestions for 3.0: to take the crème of submods

[lolIsuck]

excelent archers but not that they are specialists in archery like the Elves or Dale

[Jaldithas]

but gondor was known for their good archers,even in their late days when most of the numenorian knowledge faded,they were excelent arcehrs-legacy of the numenor.Id say they had better archers than Dale

[Hengest]

Yeah, I definetely disagree placing mounted archers on Dol Amroth, but recruiting some in the western provinces of Gondor isn't a bad idea - we don't know much about western Gondor and a unit like this could fit in the area, as the western part of Gondor wasn't as advanced as the eastern part.

As a naval force either moving quickly on horseback to defend or moving quickly off the ships in an attack or as scouts, horse archers for Dol Amroth seem logical to me.

Horse Archers in the far northwest could be rationalised as an influence from Gondor, but from what I can see in the books the west was mainly unpopulated, with Druedain being the only thing that crops up. The unpopulated thing you could say is represented by the placing of settlements further and further apart the more west you go. Horse archers make sense in an open landscape, but I think the west was quite wooded and mountainous. More than the current map is. I think that is why the Druedain thrived there, which wouldn't really be good horse country. Although since it is so far off from Minas Tirith an AoR unit there would make the region more important and fun. Maybe having a Druedain merc unit would be enough? At least it would be canon.

[NickTheGreek3]

As a naval force either moving quickly on horseback to defend or moving quickly off the ships in an attack or as scouts, horse archers for Dol Amroth seem logical to me.

Horse Archers in the far northwest could be rationalised as an influence from Gondor, but from what I can see in the books the west was mainly unpopulated, with Druedain being the only thing that crops up. The unpopulated thing you could say is represented by the placing of settlements further and further apart the more west you go. Horse archers make sense in an open landscape, but I think the west was quite wooded and mountainous. More than the current map is. I think that is why the Druedain thrived there, which wouldn't really be good horse country. Although since it is so far off from Minas Tirith an AoR unit there would make the region more important and fun. Maybe having a Druedain merc unit would be enough? At least it would be canon.

Well, western Gondor is indeed unpopulated and military weaker than the eastern part and the settlements are far away from each other. From my perspective, archer cavalry would fit perfectly in that sort of area. Mounted archers are light, non-professional cavalry with medium training, in contrast with the heavily equipped and trained armies of the eastern provinces. Their duty would be to guard the borders of Gondor and gather information, therefore having to cover miles of deserted land to reach the few remaining towns in the area. That makes sence, doesn't it?

[Gallus]

Horse archers are usually nomads or scouts and neither of those fits with Dol Amroth. The army of Dol Amroth was a profesional trained force, consisting mainly of knights. You can't tell a guy who has a coat of arms of Dol Amroth for his avatar that they were using horse archers!

[DisgruntledGoat]

Lets just give gondor every single unit possible. Cause that would be fun wouldn't it. *rolls_eyes*

[Incan]

lol seriously DG is right, whats up with gondor needing every type of unit in 3 variations... alot of the submos are overkill

[Hengest]

TBH that is a danger for many factions. Rohan for instance, I thought they were supposed to be a horse people

[Baywatch]

Ok, horse archers for Gondor? Really? How about we give Harad knights in full plate armor? I know it butchers the uniqueness of the faction but don't worry, it'll be cool. We can give the dwarves strong cavalry while we're at it.

[KovacDerSchmied]

what about adding peasants to Rohan??

[hahar]

well 1 unit of olog hai vs fountain guard isn't match so 2 units vs 2, 3 vs 3 and so on...fountain guards will rape them
by the way only unit who can beat fountain guard in 1 vs 1 is mumakill!?

[hahar]

and archers-havy archers

[Baywatch]

what about adding peasants to Rohan??

There's likely one very good reason as to why there aren't any peasant units.

Peasants by rule of thumb are completely worthless. It doesn't matter the mod or TW game, they are all worthless. PB is the only person (that I know of) who has ever made them just a notch above worthless in SS RC/RR and even in that you still feel like you're flushing florins down the toilet. So, why bother modeling a unit that likely won't see the light of day for most players?

If they were in game would you actually use them?

[KnightsTemplar]

There's likely one very good reason as to why there aren't any peasant units.

Peasants by rule of thumb are completely worthless. It doesn't matter the mod or TW game, they are all worthless. PB is the only person (that I know of) who has ever made them just a notch above worthless in SS RC/RR and even in that you still feel like you're flushing florins down the toilet. So, why bother modeling a unit that likely won't see the light of day for most players?

If they were in game would you actually use them?

It's a problem that the armor upgrade only give 1 point to the armor value.
Then even a militia can't do much in middle-late stage.
Poor defence, poor morale and poor attack will render them useless even as a meatshield.
I think an adjust to upgrade and experience will bring hope to low tier units.
Also fun factor for a visible upgrade!

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

You can edit unit stats in the export_descr_unit file in the TATW directory.

Thanks Muffer, can you just tell do these new stats that I change apply to already existing save games. I'm playing with Gondor and its 90th turn so I really don't want to start all over again just because of troll stats. Anyway, thanks once again.

I found them underpowered becouse they cost a lot and upkeep is high also and I don't like to look them get raped by some stupid archers or cheap militia

Well, it seems we have different views on this issue Hahar but, if movies are anything to go by, arrows seem more able to bring down trolls than sword is. When those Olog-hai breach the gate few arrows in the head and neck are enough to bring one down, and TW wise it's the same with cavalry, so why not classify them as heavy cavalry. True, you would find it hard time with archers and spearmen, but consider bonuses on other unit types, light infantry, heavy infantry and other cavalry. With two units of Gondor general bodyguards in one sweep I am able to wipe out almost half of Uruk-hai infantry unit that has 188 uruks. If trolls are reclassified in heavy cav they would be unable to scale the ass.ledders and towers, which they can not do anyway, they would be vulnerable to spears and arrows as we have seen they are in the Return of the King (arrows at least) and if I'm not mistaking Legolas in the Fellowship finishes the Moria troll with arrow to the head. On the other hand, as heavy cavalry they would be able for devastating charges against infantry lines and would be also more than match for anything that enemy has to throw at you from his cavalry units.

[KnightsTemplar]

Thanks Muffer, can you just tell do these new stats that I change apply to already existing save games. I'm playing with Gondor and its 90th turn so I really don't want to start all over again just because of troll stats. Anyway, thanks once again.



Well, it seems we have different views on this issue Hahar but, if movies are anything to go by, arrows seem more able to bring down trolls than sword is. When those Olog-hai breach the gate few arrows in the head and neck are enough to bring one down, and TW wise it's the same with cavalry, so why not classify them as heavy cavalry. True, you would find it hard time with archers and spearmen, but consider bonuses on other unit types, light infantry, heavy infantry and other cavalry. With two units of Gondor general bodyguards in one sweep I am able to wipe out almost half of Uruk-hai infantry unit that has 188 uruks. If trolls are reclassified in heavy cav they would be unable to scale the ass.ledders and towers, which they can not do anyway, they would be vulnerable to spears and arrows as we have seen they are in the Return of the King (arrows at least) and if I'm not mistaking Legolas in the Fellowship finishes the Moria troll with arrow to the head. On the other hand, as heavy cavalry they would be able for devastating charges against infantry lines and would be also more than match for anything that enemy has to throw at you from his cavalry units.

Sadly the stupid AI never get to use anything right.
They never charge a heavy cavalry straight into ur lines.
They try to flank with trolls. TROLLS!
And they try to kick your cavalry with trolls. Too.

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

Sadly the stupid AI never get to use anything right.
They never charge a heavy cavalry straight into ur lines.
They try to flank with trolls. TROLLS!
And they try to kick your cavalry with trolls. Too.

I know nothing about units stats and behavior patterns, so this is noob talking, but is there any possibility to make trolls charge into your lines if they see that odds are in their favoure, or make them ( lets believe for a moment they are classified as heavy cav.) charge your non spear infantry. Some "protocol" or some condition, that once fulfilled, would give trolls a green light to charge your infantry head on, and not envelop it?

[galdre]

every time I've fought trolls they charge my lines - they're classified as infantry so I'd think that would be standard behavior

[Vespasian92]

So if we are talking about Gondor units here, then sure, maybe add some of the Dol Amroth pikemen and the Lossarnach axemen (I like the new skins better) and Ithilien ranger skins, but I do agree about keeping horse archers out of Gondor's roster. If you add them, Gondor would be a faction without roster gaps and weaknesses, which every other faction has and must work around when constructing armies.

[Gallus]

So if we are talking about Gondor units here, then sure, maybe add some of the Dol Amroth pikemen and the Lossarnach axemen (I like the new skins better) and Ithilien ranger skins, but I do agree about keeping horse archers out of Gondor's roster. If you add them, Gondor would be a faction without roster gaps and weaknesses, which every other faction has and must work around when constructing armies.

Well said. Some people mentioned the Druedain but I've done some research and those guys were no horsemen. They behaved and looked more like the dwarves.