War of the West General Discussion

[IVIarkI2I]

looking good but not sure about ireland, it wasnt united at this time but oposite was true, Ireland was full of gaelic lords and small kingdoms + norman invasion was going very well

[SonofPeverel]

Yes we know, Ireland will be organized in a way to show the different factions that made it up. For exlample:We are planning on implementing an election process to choose a high king.

[IVIarkI2I]

but gaelic lords werent united in military, they were fighting theselves, some were even allied to normans

[Wallachian]

Hey guys loving the new factions symbols. But just a note that Rupebrica of Zena is twice in there. I believe the last symbol is for the Swiss Confederation. And another thing at the top where all the faction symbols are displayed smaller there is the Swiss one with the cross and then there is a small one with a bull. That bull is just the flag of the canton of Uri. So it shouldn't be used as a symbol for the whole faction. Cheers and great work!

[Polycarpe]

@Wallachian: Thank you to pointing this out, we will correct it later on.

@IVIarkI2I: For Ireland, they weren't united but what we will do is to make the Ireland display as one of the major Noble houses that is either Connacht or Ulster. The other part of Ireland will be controlled by the Irish Shadow Faction. We will make the unit roster to follow some local flavors as if you control several regions in Ireland, you will unlock new local units. And, as SonofPeverel told, we will include an election system for the Gaelic factions (Ireland, Scotland, Wales) and the Shadow factions may be more or less tempted to emerge.

[Pharoah]

faction symbles kinda look like the ones from des lo vult

[SonofPeverel]

@IVIarkI2I: For Ireland, they weren't united but what we will do is to make the Ireland display as one of the major Noble houses that is either Connacht or Ulster. The other part of Ireland will be controlled by the Irish Shadow Faction. We will make the unit roster to follow some local flavors as if you control several regions in Ireland, you will unlock new local units. And, as SonofPeverel told, we will include an election system for the Gaelic factions (Ireland, Scotland, Wales) and the Shadow factions may be more or less tempted to emerge.

[Silesian_Noble]

I have one but serious complain here - Poland and Hungary were two powerfull Catholic kingdoms that belonged to the western culture yet I can't see them on the list...

[Polycarpe]

@pharoh: Indeed, our 2D artist is the great Tokus*Maximus who accepted to help us out with his marvelous artist skills
@Silesian_Noble: They weren't included along the Republic of Venice and the Kingdom of Sweden because their main interests and conflicts were in the East. We know that there was some conflicts between the HRE and these factions but that would limit us on the other factions and that will be unfair to the HRE at the same time..

[Giacomo Colonna]

yeah don't be deceived mate, certainly another mod will treat properly the East.

[Silesian_Noble]

@Silesian_Noble: They weren't included along the Republic of Venice and the Kingdom of Sweden because their main interests and conflicts were in the East. We know that there was some conflicts between the HRE and these factions but that would limit us on the other factions and that will be unfair to the HRE at the same time..

Poles major enemy in medieval period was Teutonic Order. Poland also fought with Bohemia (for control over Silesia mostly), sometimes even with Hungary (like in 1410y when Hungarians hit Poland from the south). And of course with HRE, in high-late period in the form of Brandenburg March. All those were western states. Definitely, Polish interest was not mostly in the East (well not in medieval period, but later when TO was crushed and finaly made Polish vassal then yes, but it happened in second half of XVc / early XVIc). I'm not so good in Hungarian history, but I know they were mostly engaged in the struggle of Adriatic control. Also Hungarians tried to conquer Naples for example too. Then they fought with HRE states (famous wars over Babenberg inheritance) and took part in Hussite wars. I think that stretching the map more to the east up to Carpathian mountains/Bug river would be good and fair. Plus then the faction list could be enlarged not only with Poland and Hungary, but with Bohemia or Teutonic Order - another two western Catholic states of great medieval history.

yeah don't be deceived mate, certainly another mod will treat properly the East.

You are a Frenchmen and maybe for you Poland or Hungary belong to the east. But the true is that both those states belonged to the sphere of Western civilization. So when there appear a mod focused on the western Europe I expect it to include those states. Yes there were on the boarder of western civilization, but so were Iberian states and they are present on WotW faction list.


Anyway this is just my opinion and suggestion for the mod's creators and of course it is totally up to you whether to include Poland/Hungary or not. Good luck.

[Giacomo Colonna]

"You are a Frenchmen and maybe for you Poland or Hungary belong to the east"
not so, I don't imagine then Poland and Hungary would be similar to Georgia or Armenia if you means that when you said I'm "frenchmen".

what I would say its impossible to focus the "whole catholic west".
as you experiment it with Horsemen of the Steppe, modders aren't stronger then the hardcoding, badly for us.

but cheers my friend

[MathiasOfAthens]

Great map... hurry up and finish this it will be a great mod.

[IVIarkI2I]

@IVIarkI2I: For Ireland, they weren't united but what we will do is to make the Ireland display as one of the major Noble houses that is either Connacht or Ulster. The other part of Ireland will be controlled by the Irish Shadow Faction. We will make the unit roster to follow some local flavors as if you control several regions in Ireland, you will unlock new local units. And, as SonofPeverel told, we will include an election system for the Gaelic factions (Ireland, Scotland, Wales) and the Shadow factions may be more or less tempted to emerge.

cant w8 for playing Ireland

btw: I agree with Silesian Noble, Hungary and Poland belongs to western europe, Ican speak for hungary, they were in conflict with venice, austria, bohemia too often to say they were eastern europe kingdom , they even conquered moravia and vienna, the emperor of HRE Sigismuund the luxembourg was one of famous european rulers and he was also king of Hungary, before sigismund there was anjou dynasty from naples ruling in hungary for almost 70 years , hungary had rich gold and silver mines, which were exported all over western europe, even some english coins were minted from hungarian gold/silver. So if you want to be a serious mod, including both or one of these factions would make this mod even more mighty and ambitious

[Polycarpe]

We have several reasons why we didn't add Hungary and Poland:

If we add both of these factions, we will have to add Sweden, the Teutonic Order, Venice and Bohemia because these factions are in the map as well.

It will also causes a sort of a chain reaction that will still need another faction and another one because theses factions have a conflict with the above factions (Teutonic Order and Poland is much more less represented without Lithuania, but the Republic of Novgorod has also have an important impact but they are meaningless without Kievan Rus, but what about the Mongols? Etc. Etc.)

We didn't really want to add many factions because it will slows the turn speed, have a more restricted number on the regions, cultures, units, etc. (Actually, we can fill up the 500 unit slots with the current factions along the mercenaries quite easily).

We want to better display the major events like the One Hundred Years War, the War of Independence, the War of the Roses, etc. and to have a great open development of these.

And finally, that will increases the amount of work considerably and we don't want to spend an eternity on it.

But still, after these reasons, our group will discuss about it that if we add these factions or not, the discussion is not closed.

[lolIsuck]

I agree with St. Polycarpe, it is a mod focused on western europe and altough these countries are under western influence they are at the edge of the map and wouldn't be very important for the game

[Giacomo Colonna]

well, the democracy will decide...
but no, I don't agree we need absolutly these countries to be a serious mod. This is your point Mark.
Personally I don't have anything against Poland/Sweden/Hungary/Ri.Orden...
But it add so many work to do. For me its something to start when we will have more basic materials for the concerned factions.
its nice to have great projects, its better to know how work them.( about the primary mesh material that we can use)

[2Shy]

This mode look promising. Good luck finishing it !

[Polycarpe]

After several discussions in our group, we will not further extend the map and not adding these factions.

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

wow! this just like ChC ( my main mod)Claimants, heirs & conquerors it focuses on western Europe during the same time period just like this about 5 French factions, six Italian but enough about my mod if you have help with this it probably will more advanced than mine but you might want to check it out you might want to borrow a thing or two but anyway this looks good!