Meneth's Systems #1

[Meneth]

Hardcoded AFAIK.

[mynameisowen]

Hardcoded AFAIK.

Okay thanks.

[Fatecheater]

Dear,

There is something I wish to ask, about the medieval average age. Regarding Meneth's script and explanation on the impossibility to represent more than 4 children from a parent, I believe the main point in oder to compensate this limitation is to present only the surviving children (those that has the ability to live past the age of 5). However, since the death script only kicks in after 20, wouldn't it be more reasonable to say this mod represent the family members and generals who can live past 20? In that case, historical medieval age is invalid since it is calculated upon the whole population including those who die at as infants. Am I misunderstanding something?

[Meneth]

Dear,

There is something I wish to ask, about the medieval average age. Regarding Meneth's script and explanation on the impossibility to represent more than 4 children from a parent, I believe the main point in oder to compensate this limitation is to present only the surviving children (those that has the ability to live past the age of 5). However, since the death script only kicks in after 20, wouldn't it be more reasonable to say this mod represent the family members and generals who can live past 20? In that case, historical medieval age is invalid since it is calculated upon the whole population including those who die at as infants. Am I misunderstanding something?

Actually, chance of death will start at age 5 onward. This ofc, as you mention, eliminates early childhood mortality, which increases the average age by quite a bit. We're doing what we can do adjust for this.

[Fatecheater]

I see. Those deaths at infants add age values much lower than average (25-45 years) and, therefore decrease the overall medieval lifespan significantly, so I really hope you guys come up with ideas to solve this.

Maybe, if changing the dying age at this stage results in much debate in the modding team, I would suggest doing something like increasing the number of turns per year in future patches to give players a longer time to roleplay their character, given that their lifespan is already so short. That is also to better illustrate, in a historical way, emperor/king/family member/general's course of action (6 months for fighting one battle or 4 and a half year to starve a city is not so historically-accurate). Please think about it, even if it's not going to be one of your plans. DotS is so big, but 30-40 turns to play with your characters before they get old and useless or dead is too few.

Also, the project already took 4 years, the time much too long for me to play any game. By that, I respect and thank you for your enthusiasm. Still, I want to ask if there are already members in your team who come from medicine departments?

[mynameisowen]

I agree with Fatecheater, it would be great if 4 turns per year could be integrated into this mod.

[mAIOR]

Just found out this topic and i have two questions.

1st - From what movie is that clip? The sword play is one of the best I've seen. Sure it has some errors but it puts many Hollywood movies to shame.

2nd - regarding the age debate, I fully agree with the compromise reached and I can't think of a better one. I know it's a bit late but what some were arguing about people in nobility living longer, it's not quite true. There were many a people in the commoners who lived long lives as well. Back in the day, when I was trying to find a cure for mortality (half joke. It was actually a research assignment on stem cell uses), I found some interesting data. You always have records of people living until very late. There was an Egyptian Pharaoh who lived until he was 96. This when the average life expectancy was bellow 30.
The reasons for this seemingly immortality was all genetics. There is no other reason to explain it. Sure being a noble would help on the nutrition side but since a cold would be fatal back then, only when your genetic markers were ok would you live this long. So, since there is no way in game to add genetics to the mix, I find the planned system more than adequate.




Cheers...

[Harith]

wow... a duel... ur creating a whole different game... lol I wouldn't mind payin for it... u guyz honestly should consider workin for CA or sumthin...

[Hengest]

Thanks mAIOR that's interesting stuff!

This is not completely relevant but you might find it interesting- late medieval northern European aristocracy actually appear to have had poorer diets than the bulk of the commoners. In England for instance, the nobility drank alcohol probably for every meal and this was not actually to counter impurities in the water, it was only post-Middle Ages when this was necessary in urban areas. Alcohol in those consumption levels was actually quite bad for the health, especially the effects on pregnancy and general dehydration. They also ate a great deal of fatty foods, where fat animals and eating fat was considered a delicacy. These all combined with the very docile lifestyle of the rich made obesity (again a very fashionable thing at the time) a very common health problem. Most peasant livestock were likely to be undernourished and therefore very lean. Furthermore, culinary fashions among the nobility also featured stodgy pies made up of seafood or chicken that were high bacteria risks- of especial danger to pregnant women. Eggs were also a common ingredient in most delicacies, especially cakes- sounds funny but meringue was very common in the Middle Ages, and being made from raw eggs- again was a health risk.

In contrast, peasants in some areas would have had seasonal access to simple food such as fish, wild birds (which were leaner and more hygienic than chicken) as well as nuts, berries and vegetables. Of course more densely packed agricultural populations were very dependent on grain and bread, which was a fairly poor nutritional staple- prone to diseases, it didn't store long and was hard work to produce. It was these populations we normally think of when we talk about medieval peasants, and these were naturally hit hardest by poor harvests, plague, taxation, war... etc

[mAIOR]

Thanks mAIOR that's interesting stuff!

This is not completely relevant but you might find it interesting- late medieval northern European aristocracy actually appear to have had poorer diets than the bulk of the commoners. In England for instance, the nobility drank alcohol probably for every meal and this was not actually to counter impurities in the water, it was only post-Middle Ages when this was necessary in urban areas. Alcohol in those consumption levels was actually quite bad for the health, especially the effects on pregnancy and general dehydration. They also ate a great deal of fatty foods, where fat animals and eating fat was considered a delicacy. These all combined with the very docile lifestyle of the rich made obesity (again a very fashionable thing at the time) a very common health problem. Most peasant livestock were likely to be undernourished and therefore very lean. Furthermore, culinary fashions among the nobility also featured stodgy pies made up of seafood or chicken that were high bacteria risks- of especial danger to pregnant women. Eggs were also a common ingredient in most delicacies, especially cakes- sounds funny but meringue was very common in the Middle Ages, and being made from raw eggs- again was a health risk.

In contrast, peasants in some areas would have had seasonal access to simple food such as fish, wild birds (which were leaner and more hygienic than chicken) as well as nuts, berries and vegetables. Of course more densely packed agricultural populations were very dependent on grain and bread, which was a fairly poor nutritional staple- prone to diseases, it didn't store long and was hard work to produce. It was these populations we normally think of when we talk about medieval peasants, and these were naturally hit hardest by poor harvests, plague, taxation, war... etc

I do find it interesting and I'm not at all surprised. In Portugal we have a saying which says "Gordura é formosura" which literally means "Fat is beautiful". It comes from those days where in order to be fat, you had to be wealthy. So it all adds up

The only question remaining unanswered is "what is the movie from which that scene was taken?" really, I got to check out that movie. :p