Magyars in the 10th century and before Research thread

[Csatádi]

Find TCG members. AnthoniusII removed his signature. I don't remember what does TCG mean.

[Ichon]

How long Magyars and other tribes remain non-Christian in large minority? I understand that Magyars represented by King converted at end of 10th century but there seem to remain many pagans or at least heretical Christians who perhaps did not fully follow Catholic rites as ordered by Papal edict. However the Kazars and later Pechenegs and some smaller tribes were reported to be largely non-Christian until almost 14th century. It seems most Magyars and associated tribes were fully within Catholic church by end of 12th century but Pecheneg and then Kumans had come while finally the brief Mongol occupation devastated particularly church in eastern Hungary. So the re-population of eastern Hungary came mostly from Catholic people though eastern and southern borders maybe population remained more religiously diverse?

[k/t]

TGC - The Great Conflicts.

[Csatádi]

@Ichon
There were pagan revolts in 1046 and 1061. King Kálmán's laws (1095-1116) still punished "pagan customs". So people knew them well.
Kazars disappeared from sources after the conquering of the Carpathian Basin. Presumably they are the black Magyars. They became Christians like Magyars.
There was a small Muslim community called Káliz who were Khwarazmian in origin.
Cumans were pagans and they might be those reported as pagans in the 14th century.
Pechenegs were baptized, too, but the Pechenegs migrated many times not only once so the new settlers were possibly pagans.
Repopulation of Eastern Hungary happened from different sources. German settlers were Catholics but Romanians were Orthodox. The Romanian migration was continous during the later centuries.
If you bring up the southern border you might remember the Bogumil heretics in Bosnia and their influence.
Inhabitants of the southern banates were orthodox as they were mostly Serbs except Slavonia of course.

[AnthoniusII]

Hello to all, Just wondering what is the status of this is this a possible pre-Christian era or (Dark-Age) Magyar Mod? Is anyone presently working on such a project?

Find TCG members. AnthoniusII removed his signature. I don't remember what does TCG mean.

The Great Conflict 872-1071AD
Magyars are close to a preview (actually models are 100% ready).

[Ichon]

@Ichon
There were pagan revolts in 1046 and 1061. King Kálmán's laws (1095-1116) still punished "pagan customs". So people knew them well.
Kazars disappeared from sources after the conquering of the Carpathian Basin. Presumably they are the black Magyars. They became Christians like Magyars.
There was a small Muslim community called Káliz who were Khwarazmian in origin.
Cumans were pagans and they might be those reported as pagans in the 14th century.
Pechenegs were baptized, too, but the Pechenegs migrated many times not only once so the new settlers were possibly pagans.
Repopulation of Eastern Hungary happened from different sources. German settlers were Catholics but Romanians were Orthodox. The Romanian migration was continous during the later centuries.
If you bring up the southern border you might remember the Bogumil heretics in Bosnia and their influence.
Inhabitants of the southern banates were orthodox as they were mostly Serbs except Slavonia of course.

I've recently read some Jewish sources talking about Kazars (some of whom were supposedly Jews) that were marrying pagan Kazars as late as 1248 and having to ask Rabbi for instructions on some things. According to book I just read anyway that Kazars came in 2 migrations- first with the Magyars after some disagreements with other Kazar tribes and then later when Khazaria kingdom was falling apart in mid 11th century and its the 2nd wave which contained some Jews as well more pagans and there are a few letter survive to Jewish Rabbi in Poland mentioning pagans still associated under "kazar" name. I should have photocopied that maybe but I already returned it to the library.

[Ichon]

Also- I or Ravenant asked earlier about possibility to include some of Magyar mod work in SSMAP but I understand Magyar team feelings about KK's base SS.

We are using SS as a starting point because most of us started MTW2 mods with SS but grew dissatisfied with historical inaccuracy and also this project has grown over time with more volunteers. Due to the large extent of the SS map, popularity (which help grow the team) and the included factions it seemed a good place to start but ultimately there will be some major changes with more historical focus.

For example here is screenshot from latest .7 beta and as we are getting closer to 1.0 version some feedback would be appreciated on Hungary and Carpathian range map area. We have added Serbia but probably all new factions will be Muslim from this point unless we do drop Portugal (unlikely but possible). As you can see start date is 1132 a bit different from SS and already map is about 75% changed.

[Csatádi]

And did your book write these marriages etc. happened in Hungary?

I'm interested in that work because I remember a 13th century mention of Khazars. I hope it's based on real sources and fake ones. But it doesn't matter if you returned it.

[Ichon]

Yes they were occurring in Hungary as the book was talking about the revival of trade routes after Mongol invasion. I can probably get that book again if you are really curious, I'll have to check my library account as I really am not able to remember the title. I know there are alot of fake accounts out there but for the most part this author seemed to evaluate without alot of bias though his focus was on explaining Jewish presence in Poland/Hungary and relating it to Khazaria.

EDIT- it was Jews of Khazaria

http://www.amazon.com/Jews-Khazaria-.../dp/0742549828

[AnthoniusII]

Csatádi this is our Magyar faction symbol based on Dome's banners.


That way we avoid the banner with the red/white horizontal stripes.

[Csatádi]

It looks good
Perfect till 1000

[AnthoniusII]

TGC mod expesses its gratidute to the Magyar TW team (espesialy Csatádi and Dome ) for thei help, advices and thier donetions (Dome was very kind to us to allow us use some of his exelent horse textures and he also donated other modding parts too).

Thank you our friends for you kindness.
TGC/CBUR fellowship.